**The Official Big Greg Ellis Thread***

[Hoov]

Because Ellis is defeating the whole thing before it starts. Just like he did last year, but amazingly he wasn't a flop like he thought. Amazing how that works? Maybe the head coach knows what he is talking about. No, we just have to leave it to the player who by his own admission amazed himself with his production in a system he said he couldn't play in.

exactly, he is setting himself up for failure before even trying

 

[Alexander]

exactly, he is setting himself up for failure before even trying

But of course, we need to guarantee money to someone who thinks like this.

 

[cowheel]

I get sick if people calling out Ellis and questioning his manhood "If you were a real man"....


Football is a business and should be treated as such by everyone. It was perfectly ok to cut Allen and Glover for cap reasons because it helped the Cowboys in the long run financially. Why can't players do what's best for them financially?

They have a finite period of time to earn as much as possible. Ellis has one decent money contract left in his future and moving from a 4-3 end will most likely hurt his future value. I would be upset also.

Imagine a tale of two interns. A company uses one in their shared chosen field and the other to cut the grass. The company is the highest paying one in the industry and only has room to hire one of them in the future. Don't you think that intern number two has a distinct disadvantage and knows it? Do you think he's happy to get up every morning to mow the lawn while the other is having lunch with the head of the department?

:bravo:
lol... some folks crack me up.
How do you equate a man trying to look out for his and his family's future to a guy that is "not a real man"?

Ridiculous.

There is not a single person in this forum that wouldn't do the same thing if they were in Greg Ellis's shoes.

The guy only has a few good years left and then he has to worry about the rest of his (hopefully) 30+ years on this planet.

Greg has proven - when put in the right situation he can be a quality player and still has a lot left in the tank.

All he's asking from the team is:

A: I'm 30+ years old - If you're planning to force me into a role I have never played in my football career, please make some sort of commitment to me now. Because if I go out here and do ask you ask - and have a season not up to my standards - when you release me next year, you will have caused my stock to plummet.

or

B: Release me now while my stock is high - so that I may sign a decent contract (ala Glover), with another team who will put me in the role I have played for my entire career.

And who was that that said the best player will play?
Did you watch last year at all?

I love our youngsters and their potential....
but no way were Canty and Fergason better than Ellis and Glover.
No way.

They were just a better fit for the scheme.

So the fact is: whoever best fits the schem plays.

The Boys did right by Glover in releasing him.
Now they need to do right by Ellis - who has been a Cowboy his entire career.
A model one at that.

 

[wileedog]

ABecause if I go out here and do ask you ask - and have a season not up to my standards - when you release me next year, you will have caused my stock to plummet.

This is the thinking I don't get, and its obviously what is driving Ellis.

If he spends a season playing LBer and doesn't get it, will 31 other teams think he has completely forgotten how to play DE?

The only thing he will lose is that he will be a year older, but there will still be plenty of teams who will watch plenty of pre-2005 game tapes who will still pay him like the marginally good 4-3 DE that he is. Heck, Denver probably already has the contract written up waiting for him to sign it.

This whole "risk" and "guinea pig" stuff is completely and total nonsense. Ellis career will not come crashing down if he tries a season at LBer, and the whining and crying are probably doing more to hurt his stock than any position or role change. Teams *hate hate hate* guys that decide to renegotiate their contracts mid-way via the media.

 

[Alexander]

This is the thinking I don't get, and its obviously what is driving Ellis.

If he spends a season playing LBer and doesn't get it, will 31 other teams think he has completely forgotten how to play DE?

That's where his logic breaks down and why I laugh at the whole situation. If he were that good, then I am sure a season or two of sitting on the bench or playing part-time would erase his years of consistent production. It would cost him money, but who thinks he gets millions more this offseason as opposed to say, next?

The only thing he will lose is that he will be a year older, but there will still be plenty of teams who will watch plenty of pre-2005 game tapes who will still pay him like the marginally good 4-3 DE that he is. Heck, Denver probably already has the contract written up waiting for him to sign it.

And he would have little wear and tear physically.

This whole "risk" and "guinea pig" stuff is completely and total nonsense. Ellis career will not come crashing down if he tries a season at LBer, and the whining and crying are probably doing more to hurt his stock than any position or role change. Teams *hate hate hate* guys that decide to renegotiate their contracts mid-way via the media.

He is a defeatist. With an attitude like that, it is no wonder we went 5-11 with "leaders" like this in place.

 

[InmanRoshi]

And, once again, this doesn't seem to sink in with people ... Greg's role isn't drastically changing. Most of his snaps will be a 4 man nickel line. Just like its always been. They are only asking Greg to play "LB" in special packages, that the Cowboys may or may not even use.

A few years ago Parcells was stating time and time again that it would behoove Dexter Coakley to focus on becoming a nickel linebacker. Find a specialty role, and you could extend your career in the NFL by 3-4 years. People got all up in arms. "Why isn't Parcells using a scheme that features Dexter Coakley instead of benching him !! Why is Parcells trying to get rid of Dexter Coakley !! Dexter Coakley has been a good player on this team !! Dexter Coakley is still a quality player who can still play !!"

So Dexter Coakley gets released, he goes to the Rams and in just 1 year they've already decided that he's ... guess what ... a nickel linebacker, at best. They are already looking to release him becuase they don't want to pay him starter money. Coakley should have focused on being a nickel linebacker. And maybe Parcells has a more realistic view of how good these "Late 90's Cowboy heros" actually are, rather than the fans who worship them.

Greg Ellis will be 31 when the season starts. His days of being a 60 snap/game player are at an end. A hall of famer like Bruce Smith can start until he's 36. A perennial Pro Bowler like LeRoi Glover might even be able to start until he's 33 or 34. But a player like Greg Ellis ... who was a barely above average player in his physical prime ... needs to start carving out a niche, pronto.

 

[Hoov]

:bravo:
lol... some folks crack me up.
How do you equate a man trying to look out for his and his family's future to a guy that is "not a real man"?

Ridiculous.

There is not a single person in this forum that wouldn't do the same thing if they were in Greg Ellis's shoes.

The guy only has a few good years left and then he has to worry about the rest of his (hopefully) 30+ years on this planet.

Greg has proven - when put in the right situation he can be a quality player and still has a lot left in the tank.

All he's asking from the team is:

A: I'm 30+ years old - If you're planning to force me into a role I have never played in my football career, please make some sort of commitment to me now. Because if I go out here and do ask you ask - and have a season not up to my standards - when you release me next year, you will have caused my stock to plummet.

or

B: Release me now while my stock is high - so that I may sign a decent contract (ala Glover), with another team who will put me in the role I have played for my entire career.

And who was that that said the best player will play?
Did you watch last year at all?

I love our youngsters and their potential....
but no way were Canty and Fergason better than Ellis and Glover.
No way.

They were just a better fit for the scheme.

So the fact is: whoever best fits the schem plays.

The Boys did right by Glover in releasing him.
Now they need to do right by Ellis - who has been a Cowboy his entire career.
A model one at that.

I call BS on this one, there are plenty of NFL players that have accepted reduced roles or changed positions at the request of the coaching staff without making a big deal over it. Usually the comment is somwhere along the lines of, i just want to help the team, be a part of the team or do whats best for the team.

 

[Alexander]

And, once again, this doesn't seem to sink in with people ... Greg's role isn't drastically changing. Most of his snaps will be a 4 man nickel line. Just like its always been. They are only asking Greg to play "LB" in special packages, that the Cowboys may or may not even use.

A few years ago Parcells was stating time and time again that it would behoove Dexter Coakley to focus on becoming a nickel linebacker. Find a specialty role, and you could extend your career in the NFL by 3-4 years. People got all up in arms. "Why is Parcells using a scheme that features Dexter Coakley instead of benching him !! Why is Parcells trying to get rid of Dexter Coakley !! Dexter Coakley has been a good player on this team !! Dexter Coakley is still a quality player who can still play !!"

So Dexter Coakley gets released, he goes to the Rams and in just 1 year they've already decided that he's a backup player at best at his age, and probably will release him if given the opportunity.

Guess what ... he should have focused on being a nickel linebacker.

Greg Ellis will be 31 when the season starts. His days of being a 60 snap/game player are at an end. He needs to focus on becoming a nickel pass rusher.

It all comes down to trusting Coach Parcells and what he is trying to accomplish. Ellis doesn't and probably won't. He is basically extorting Jerry Jones in an effort to buy his trust. And that's somehow desireable?

Most fans that had issues with Coakley being released also had trust issues. I am pretty certain to a poster, those who are siding with Ellis would be perfectly happy to return to the glory days with Greg happily punching a timeclock in the 4-3 defense that couldn't pressure anyone.

 

[Alexander]

I call BS on this one, there are plenty of NFL players that have accepted reduced roles or changed positions at the request of the coaching staff without making a big deal over it. Usually the comment is somwhere along the lines of, i just want to help the team, be a part of the team or do whats best for the team.

And those are the true "Good Guys".

 

[wileedog]

I call BS on this one, there are plenty of NFL players that have accepted reduced roles or changed positions at the request of the coaching staff without making a big deal over it. Usually the comment is somwhere along the lines of, i just want to help the team, be a part of the team or do whats best for the team.

Al Singleton is considered by most to be too small for the 3-4.

Since he's been here he's watched us draft and sign a slew of LBers, some of whom like Carpenter or even Burnnett last year who were obviously going to take away some or even the majority of his playing time. Al is looking at a significantly reduced role on this team.

I have not heard Singleton utter one peep about his contract, his role, or his ability to make money in the future. He was at practice yesterday two days after getting married.

But then again, Ellis is a Good Guy(tm)

 

[Alexander]

Al Singleton is considered by most to be too small for the 3-4.

Since he's been here he's watched us draft and sign a slew of LBers, some of whom like Carpenter or even Burnnett are obviously his eventual replacement, maybe this season, certainly by next season. Either way Al is looking at a significantly reduced role in the coming years.

I have not heard Singleton utter one peep about his contract, his role, or his ability to make money in the future. He was at practice yesterday two days after getting married.

But then again, Ellis is a Good Guy(tm)

But Singleton hasn't spent years in Dallas crafting his "Good Guy" image.

Nor does he pluck at the heartstrings of fans who simply believe that Ellis has a place in Cowboys lore.

Jim Jeffcoat didn't complain when he was relegated to a nickel role when Johnson took over.

But let's all shed a tear for Greg Ellis. He's special. He's a Good Guy.

 

[wileedog]

But Singleton hasn't spent years in Dallas crafting his "Good Guy" image.

Nor does he pluck at the heartstrings of fans who simply believe that Ellis has a place in Cowboys lore.

Jim Jeffcoat didn't complain when he was relegated to a nickel role when Johnson took over.

But let's all shed a tear for Greg Ellis. He's special. He's a Good Guy.

And if we cave in to Ellis and give him his guaranteed money, I wouldn't begrudge Al one bit afterwords if he marched into Jerry's office and demanded a contract extension, or his "heart just wouldn't be in it this season."

After all, apparently it would be completely acceptable to dictate to management how much money you should make and when.

 

[YosemiteSam]

The only thing Ellis would be doing by asking for more money is to guaranty that he is cut before his contract ends. Lets face it, he was never a real dominate player. His last few years he showed that he can be productive and now that his role is reducing he wants out because he wants to play and he feels if he can't get the playing time he wants money instead.

I respect the guy. He just wants to be happy and hey, thats what it's all about. I think he should just do the best he can now because he isn't going anywhere this year. If he makes a big stink, all he will do is hurt himself. With the Cowboys and any other team that wants to pick him up.

 

[InmanRoshi]

I also remember a very different approach by Le'Roi Glover. Last year, while Greg was using the "poor, poor, pitifull me" line, Glover basically said he can play in any scheme they put him in and that he'll beat any contender for his position that they put in front of him. And he did. And, amazingly, NFL franchises didn't totally forget he could play in the 4-3 when he hit the market this year. The Rams paid him quite handsomely, in fact.

Of course there is a difference between Singleton/Glover and Ellis. Glover was an undrafted free agent. Singleton was drafted in Day 2. Because they've never been handed anything , they know that nothing is owed to you in this business. Its a priveledge to be an NFL player and earn an NFL salary, its a year-to-year business and you have to work for everything you get. Greg seems to have the sense of entitlement of a former a Top 10 draft pick who was handed a starting job in the NFL the first day he walked onto the practice field. He owed a job with a multi-million dollar salary. He's owed a starting position (until HE feels like he's not a starter anymore). And he's owed a starting position in a scheme that features his own individual talents rather than what's good for the rest of the 53 man roster.

Its quite a contrast.

 

[Alexander]

I also remember a very different by Le'Roi Glover. Last year, while Greg was using the "poor, poor, pitifull me" line, Glover basically said he can play in any scheme they put him in and that he'll beat any contender for his position that they put in front of him. And he did. And, amazingly, NFL franchises didn't totally forget he could play in the 4-3 when he hit the market this year. The Rams paid him quite handsomely, in fact.

Ellis meanwhile wonders out loud if he can do it. Dramatic difference.

Of course there is a difference between Singleton/Glover and Ellis. Glover was an undrafted free agent. Singleton was drafted in Day 2. Because they've never been handed anything , they know that nothing is owed to you in this business. Its a priveledge to be an NFL player and earn an NFL salary, its a year-to-year business and you have to work for everything you get. While Greg seems to have the sense of entitlement of a former a Top 10 draft pick who was handed a starting job in the NFL the first day he walked onto the practice field.

This cannot be. He's a Good Guy.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

But Singleton hasn't spent years in Dallas crafting his "Good Guy" image.

Nor does he pluck at the heartstrings of fans who simply believe that Ellis has a place in Cowboys lore.

Jim Jeffcoat didn't complain when he was relegated to a nickel role when Johnson took over.

But let's all shed a tear for Greg Ellis. He's special. He's a Good Guy.

The only one touting Ellis as a "good guy" is you in an obnoxious, condesending manner.




Ellis is making a sound financial decision. A DE coming off years of steady production will make more than a part timer with limited totals on the open market. He's taking a risk and all he's asking is that the Cowboys assume some of that risk by guaranteeing a portion of his contract. That doesn't seem outlandish to me.

 

[Alexander]

The only one touting Ellis as a "good guy" is you in an obnoxious, condesending manner.

Whatever you say. I could find literally hundreds of posts on this forum from fans that talk about his "class" and "character" dating from before all of this business until now. He's never been a crude individual, but he isn't this perfect icon of humility and selfless self-sacrifice like some believe he has been. He's out for himself, like any other player would be.

Ellis is making a sound financial decision. A DE coming off years of steady production will make more than a part timer with limited totals on the open market. He's taking a risk and all he's asking is that the Cowboys assume some of that risk by guaranteeing a portion of his contract. That doesn't seem outlandish to me.

And I really don't fault Ellis and never have. Just don't act like this isn't about money, because it is. And don't act like what he is doing is any different than many other players have done, yet got raked over the coals for because their public image was not nearly as gleaming.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I also remember a very different approach by Le'Roi Glover. Last year, while Greg was using the "poor, poor, pitifull me" line, Glover basically said he can play in any scheme they put him in and that he'll beat any contender for his position that they put in front of him. And he did. And, amazingly, NFL franchises didn't totally forget he could play in the 4-3 when he hit the market this year. The Rams paid him quite handsomely, in fact.

Of course there is a difference between Singleton/Glover and Ellis. Glover was an undrafted free agent. Singleton was drafted in Day 2. Because they've never been handed anything , they know that nothing is owed to you in this business. Its a priveledge to be an NFL player and earn an NFL salary, its a year-to-year business and you have to work for everything you get. Greg seems to have the sense of entitlement of a former a Top 10 draft pick who was handed a starting job in the NFL the first day he walked onto the practice field. He owed a job with a multi-million dollar salary. He's owed a starting position (until HE feels like he's not a starter anymore). And he's owed a starting position in a scheme that features his own individual talents rather than what's good for the rest of the 53 man roster.

Its quite a contrast.

I seem to recall Glover saying that he wanted to be and kind of the attitude that he BETTER be the starter at the start of the season.

Not saying he was complaining but let's not act like he did not say anything.

 

[wileedog]

The only one touting Ellis as a "good guy" is you in an obnoxious, condesending manner.




Ellis is making a sound financial decision. A DE coming off years of steady production will make more than a part timer with limited totals on the open market. He's taking a risk and all he's asking is that the Cowboys assume some of that risk by guaranteeing a portion of his contract. That doesn't seem outlandish to me.

Actually he's dumping *all* of the risk on the Cowboys.

If they guarantee him the money from the last years of his contract, then it doesn't matter a lick to him if the situation works or not. If it fails, he gets his money and signs up with a new team next year. He's not going to lose that much money on the open market because other teams will not just forget that he was used in a different role by Parcells in a different defense.

This notion that he will lose millions because a 4-3 team will simply ignore that he was in a 3-4 for two years is logic that can only be properly pushed by an agent, and even then its sketchy.

Much like last year, Ellis seems to have pre-decided that he will fail in this set up, and it looks like he just wants to get what he can before he's booted. Bully for him, but let's not call it anything other than it is - a pure money play.

I think it speaks volumes about Ellis that its happening just as the team he has been on (and lost and lost with) his entire career is finally to a point where they might win something, and all he's concerned about is his future paydays.

 

[Alexander]

I seem to recall Glover saying that he wanted to be and kind of the attitude that he BETTER be the starter at the start of the season.

Not saying he was complaining but let's not act like he did not say anything.

I took that not as a threat, but moreso that he "better" be the starter or something is wrong. More in a competitive sense and secure in his own abilities than a commandment that he start "or else".