**The Official Big Greg Ellis Thread***

[Alexander]

please, Greg Ellis isnt a "problem"....the guy isnt a cancer or a trouble maker

he got hosed bigtime last yr by Parcells (who proved that he doesnt always play the best players because he benched a healthy Ellis for no reason last season) and has legit concerns...he wants to be on the field and unlike alot of players, actually WORK to earn his play...he's been one of the most consistent, dedicated players we've had over the years

David

Spoken like someone who has made it clear they don't care for Parcells.

Sorry if you have zero ability to be objective here.

 

[spindoc]

Dear Ellis Haters,
Why are you throwing Ellis under the bus just because he wants more money/guaranteed money? Most people in the NFL, including coaches, have asked for "more money" during their contracts. Wasn't Parcells under contract when he negotiated himself a raise earlier this year by floating around some "retirement talk?" I believe Parcells still had one year left on his contract. Where is the outrage at Parcells' actions? I guess we should trade/cut Parcells too. He wasn't a "team player."

 

[RCowboyFan]

Dear Ellis Haters,
Why are you throwing Ellis under the bus just because he wants more money/guaranteed money? Most people in the NFL, including coaches, have asked for "more money" during their contracts. Wasn't Parcells under contract when he negotiated himself a raise earlier this year by floating around some "retirement talk?" I believe Parcells still had one year left on his contract. Where is the outrage at Parcells' actions? I guess we should trade/cut Parcells too. He wasn't a "team player."

Yeah, really But then I guess he didn't ask for a raise, Jerry just forced it on him

 

[superpunk]

Sweet....another Ellis thread.

And there was PLENTY of angst about Parcells.

Yours truly included.

 

[silverbear]

Spoken like someone who has made it clear they don't care for Parcells.

Sorry if you have zero ability to be objective here.

And of course, you're SOOOO legendary for YOUR objectivity...

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I don't mind seperate threads about Greg Ellis when it is started with an article or recap of an interview.

However we had 3-4 threads of opinions on the FIRST page of the site about Greg Ellis.

Those have been merged.

So love him, hate him, or just want to blab and argue about him...let's try to keep it in one thread, not start another thread about him...with the exception of it being a NEW article or Recap.

Thanks
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[InmanRoshi]

Its often pointed out that Ellis was underpaid becuase Grant Wistrom or others got more money than him on an open market that he chose not to test. But its also important to note that he was overpaid in his first contract for being drafted ridiculously higher than someone of his talent level should have been.

I don't think he should be attributed with credits or faults with either situation, since they were both of someone else's doing and out of his control.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Its often pointed out that Ellis was underpaid becuase Grant Wistrom or others got more money than him on an open market that he chose not to test. But its also important to note that he was overpaid in his first contract for being drafted ridiculously higher than someone of his talent level should have been.

I don't think he should be attributed with credits or faults with either situation, since they were both out of his control.

To be fair he was paid market value for his draft slot.

Personally I wish there was some sort of rookie cap with incentives. But whether he lived up to the money or not, he was paid the market value for the draft slot.

He was paid before he ever played like other rookies.

The second contract better reflected his abilities and what management felt they would give up for his services.

 

[InmanRoshi]

To be fair he was paid market value for his draft slot.

Personally I wish there was some sort of rookie cap with incentives. But whether he lived up to the money or not, he was paid the market value for the draft slot.

He was paid before he ever played like other rookies.

The second contract better reflected his abilities and what management felt they would give up for his services.

Agreed. I didn't say it was Ellis' fault. I'm just pointing out that Greg has definitely receieved some blessings in his NFL career when it comes to how much money he's earned. Its unfortunate that he and his agent so vastly underestimated the market, but he also caught a bit of a financial windfall by being drafted with the 8th pick in the draft when most prognosticators had him going in the late teens or early twenties. In the end, he's caught some breaks and lost some.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Agreed. I didn't say it was Ellis' fault. I'm just pointing out that Greg has definitely receieved some blessings in his NFL career when it comes to how much money he's earned. Its unfortunate that he and his agent so vastly underestimated the market, but he also caught a bit of a financial windfall by being drafted with the 8th pick in the draft when most prognosticators had him going in the late teens or early twenties. In the end, he's caught some breaks and lost some.

No I didn't mean to implicate you meant it was his fault.

Just pointing out that it was fair market value and the Idea I really hate seeing rookies get such high contracts before playing a real game in the NFL.

 

[cowheel]

This is the thinking I don't get, and its obviously what is driving Ellis.

If he spends a season playing LBer and doesn't get it, will 31 other teams think he has completely forgotten how to play DE?

....don't quite understand "market value" do ya?

The NFL, and every other sport for that matter is a "what have you done for me lately" business.
Especially when you're over 30.

 

[wileedog]

....don't quite understand "market value" do ya?

The NFL, and every other sport for that matter is a "what have you done for me lately" business.
Especially when you're over 30.

I understand it quite well that most GM's not named Matt Millen will understand that Ellis was moved into a 3-4 defense and put into a role playing position, and may still have all the skills necessary to be a fine 4-3 end.

It helps when you read the whole post.

 

[cowheel]

And, once again, this doesn't seem to sink in with people ... Greg's role isn't drastically changing. Most of his snaps will be a 4 man nickel line.

So how do you know that without a commitment from the team?
Ever heard that money dictates playing time?

His role changed drastically from year before last to last year.
You go from being an every down player to "nickel"?

You don't think thats drastic?

Ellis would be starting and playing every down for most 4/3 teams in the league.

 

[wileedog]

Ellis would be starting and playing every down for most 4/3 teams in the league.

So again, then what exactly is wrong with his market value?

Unless you believe that GMs don't watch film?

 

[cowheel]

I understand it quite well that most GM's not named Matt Millen will understand that Ellis was moved into a 3-4 defense and put into a role playing position, and may still have all the skills necessary to be a fine 4-3 end.

It helps when you read the whole post.

So if you were Greg Ellis and knew you could get a lot more PT and a lot more money with most other teams in the league...
you'd be satisfied with making a fraction of the money you can earn by being a role player in the 3-4 ---- just because you want to be loyal to the Cowboys?

Yet - they won't make any commitment with you?
Especially when your in the prime of your career?

Yeah... right.

 

[superpunk]

So again, then what exactly is wrong with his market value?

Unless you believe that GMs don't watch film?

I'm imagining Mike Shanahan poring over free agent listings...

"Hey, what do we think about this Ellis guy?"

"He only registered 3 sacks last year."

"Ah....forget I said anything."

 

[dargonking999]

:bravo:
lol... some folks crack me up.
How do you equate a man trying to look out for his and his family's future to a guy that is "not a real man"?

Ridiculous.

There is not a single person in this forum that wouldn't do the same thing if they were in Greg Ellis's shoes.

The guy only has a few good years left and then he has to worry about the rest of his (hopefully) 30+ years on this planet.

Greg has proven - when put in the right situation he can be a quality player and still has a lot left in the tank.

All he's asking from the team is:

A: I'm 30+ years old - If you're planning to force me into a role I have never played in my football career, please make some sort of commitment to me now. Because if I go out here and do ask you ask - and have a season not up to my standards - when you release me next year, you will have caused my stock to plummet.

or

B: Release me now while my stock is high - so that I may sign a decent contract (ala Glover), with another team who will put me in the role I have played for my entire career.

And who was that that said the best player will play?
Did you watch last year at all?

I love our youngsters and their potential....
but no way were Canty and Fergason better than Ellis and Glover.
No way.

They were just a better fit for the scheme.

So the fact is: whoever best fits the schem plays.

The Boys did right by Glover in releasing him.
Now they need to do right by Ellis - who has been a Cowboy his entire career.
A model one at that.

You know its talk like this that let players do the crap they do. ELlis has been payed millions of dollars over the course of his 10 year career, if he wasnt smart enough to invest that money, orsave anything, then why should we have to bend our backs over for him. Crap just getting paid the vet min of 500,000 is more than most peope make in 5 years. So dont hand me the Family, bs line, that is just utterly ridculouis and pointless.

 

[Alexander]

I'm imagining Mike Shanahan poring over free agent listings...

"Hey, what do we think about this Ellis guy?"

"He only registered 3 sacks last year."

"Ah....forget I said anything."

:laugh1:

Ellis knows damn good and well Andre Patterson has a place for him right now. Campo in Jacksonville as well.

This isn't about being marketable across the league. He knows right now he'd have a job in one of those two places. So he is attempting to force the issue. Because in a general sense of the word, league-wide, there aren't more than a half dozen teams where you say he is better hands down than any of their DEs. He hates the 3-4, so that knocks out a percentage right there.

 

[wileedog]

So if you were Greg Ellis and knew you could get a lot more PT and a lot more money with most other teams in the league...
you'd be satisfied with making a fraction of the money you can earn by being a role player in the 3-4 ---- just because you want to be loyal to the Cowboys?

Yet - they won't make any commitment with you?
Especially when your in the prime of your career?

Yeah... right.

If I've spent 10 years on this team and had one playoff game in my career, then looked around the locker room and noticed some of these guys are a lot better than I'm used to playing with, and maybe, just maybe I'm going to get my shot at going to the SB, you're damn straight I'd shut my mouth and be the best damn role player I could be.

Even if it doesn't work out I'm $2.5M richer when all is said and done.

 

[cowheel]

So again, then what exactly is wrong with his market value?

Unless you believe that GMs don't watch film?

Film from 2 years ago? When he was 31?

Yeah - If i'm dishing out the millions, I'd definitely question the fact that you could still play at the same level at 33.

Maybe if I saw you playing at that level at 32... I'd be more willing to throw you a bone.

But if I hadn't seen you do it in 2 years.. in the NFL.... yeah - I'm gonna question it.

Maybe it would be different if he were 26.