**The Official Big Greg Ellis Thread***

[Alexander]

If it fails, he gets his money and signs up with a new team next year.

No, we would have to cut him and absorb his cap hit for his to sign with a new team. So basically, the organization would be gambling on him doing it. Would you do it for a player who has publicly and privately questioned if he could? I am sure Parcells thinks he can do it, but I doubt he would go to bat and sell the idea to Jones to give up the money. Nor should he.

I think it speaks volumes about Ellis that its happening just as the team he has been on (and lost and lost with) his entire career is finally to a point where they might win something, and all he's concerned about is his future paydays.

I think I'll let this brilliance speak for itself.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I took that not as a threat, but moreso that he "better" be the starter or something is wrong. More in a competitive sense and secure in his own abilities than a commandment that he start "or else".

I took it as he better be the starter for that first game or something was going to happen.

And this on top of just paying out a huge SB to Ferguson to play that spot.

No...Glover may not have been complaining like Ellis has the last two years, but let's not make it out like glover never said anything.

 

[wileedog]

I took it as he better be the starter for that first game or something was going to happen.

And this on top of just paying out a huge SB to Ferguson to play that spot.

No...Glover may not have been complaining like Ellis has the last two years, but let's not make it out like glover never said anything.

Honestly, I took it that way too. Although he handled getting phased out as the season wore on well.

But I'd still rather hear that from a guy than "I don't think I can do this, so pay me more money in case I'm right."

 

[DLCassidy]

The only one touting Ellis as a "good guy" is you in an obnoxious, condesending manner.




Ellis is making a sound financial decision. A DE coming off years of steady production will make more than a part timer with limited totals on the open market. He's taking a risk and all he's asking is that the Cowboys assume some of that risk by guaranteeing a portion of his contract. That doesn't seem outlandish to me.

Apparently you don't read the papers. Ellis is half way to the votes necessary for a nomination to sainthood with the local press. I'm sure he is a good guy and that he spends his weekends bringing meals and blankets to the homeless. But let's get one thing straight: Ellis is under contract. He has no control of the situation other than whining and/or holding out. And we've already guaranteed a portion of his contract- his bonus has been paid and his salary for this year will be fully guaranteed after a certain date. Beyond that he's asking for something the other 52 guys don't get- why should we give it to him?

As far as risk goes, every player in the NFL plays under the same basic agreement and the thrust of that agreement is that players are paid based on performance. Take the signing bonuses out of the eqaution and every player is year to year and is subject to being cut if he doesn't perform. What makes Saint Ellis exempt?

 

[Angus]

If the grasscutter gets half a million dollars to stick around and do his job I'd say there has already been a committment to him.

 

[Alexander]

Honestly, I took it that way too. Although he handled getting phased out as the season wore on well.

That's why I don't consider him saying what he did as anything close to what Ellis has been complaining about.

Ferguson basically took most of his time, yet you never heard much. And you didn't have Glover saying tearful goodbyes to the media and teammates saying "oh well, I think I am gone, I love you all, farewell" like Ellis did after the Rams game when it was clear he, not Ellis, was the player that was most assuredly going to get cut.

Glover is an example of class and dignity if people find that attractive. Not the pity routine Ellis has been pulling for two years now.

 

[Derinyar]

Your working one job for 10+ years. Your company has you on what is in essence a year to year contract. They ask you to move to something entirely different, that your not sure you can do, and that you don't believe your best suited for. I think its only reasonable that you ask them to assume a little of your risk, because if it doesn't work out and they release you, your value is less than it had been.

 

[ravidubey]

To wit: The best player will play. Period. So, if you are the best player, you will play. It's that simple.

WRONG!! Ellis was the better player last year but was benched in favor of Canty. Canty never reached Ellis' level and wore down so much that he became a liability as a starter.

Canty was forced into the starting lineup to replace Ellis as part of a long-term move, not because he was better than Ellis. So the entire premise of this letter is wrong.

 

[Sandyf]

Football is about winning and being a business. Whether we like it or not, Ellis is doing what any person in his position would do to provide stablity for his future.

Is it the right approach? Who knows. It might be to his advantage and might not. It also could be something Dallas wants him to do so it gets other teams interested. Ellis isn't going anywhere in the short term.

If we move Ellis, it will be during training camp once injuries start to take their toll on other teams but hopefully not ours. Ellis still is a premier pass rusher and will bring what Dallas will ask for him during training camp. Most everything we see, hear and read is posturing by both sides.

It is about business and not a person on this board or anyother board would do it differently if they were in the same situation. As a fan you might want to believe that you will but when it comes down to it, you do what is best for you. Once Ellis is gone, I don't believe that Jerry will be offering to support him monteary after he can't play football, and if you think he will --- well I got some beach front property you might be interested in in Arizona.

 

[ravidubey]

Apparently you don't read the papers. Ellis is half way to the votes necessary for a nomination to sainthood with the local press. I'm sure he is a good guy and that he spends his weekends bringing meals and blankets to the homeless. But let's get one thing straight: Ellis is under contract. He has no control of the situation other than whining and/or holding out. And we've already guaranteed a portion of his contract- his bonus has been paid and his salary for this year will be fully guaranteed after a certain date. Beyond that he's asking for something the other 52 guys don't get- why should we give it to him?

As far as risk goes, every player in the NFL plays under the same basic agreement and the thrust of that agreement is that players are paid based on performance. Take the signing bonuses out of the eqaution and every player is year to year and is subject to being cut if he doesn't perform. What makes Saint Ellis exempt?

Most people just don't get it.

First, NFL contracts ARE NOT REAL CONTRACTS. NFL teams can break them at any time while NFL players must abide by them. Players can sit back and take whatever garbage management tells them, or they use whatever leverage they have to better their situation.

Second, they are LYING to Ellis-- supposedly asking him to play a different position, one he is totally unfamiliar with. Reading between the lines, it's almost completely BS. It's all a premise for what they really want-- for Ellis to be a backup while the young studs they are developing continue to start (despite not being better than Ellis yet).

Greg Ellis sees the truth, that he's going to be paid this year and then cut once the other front seven players catch up to him. The writing is on the wall; the only reason he wasn't cut already is because no front 7 player beyond DeMarcus Ware and no DL at all proved they could generate pressure.

Ordinarily getting cut wouldn't be a big deal; Ellis would just go somewhere else. But Dallas wants Ellis to waste a year playing a position that sets him up to post minimal stats, and around the league perceptions (starting with stats) rule the free agency game.

When looking for starting 4-3 DE's, they will see Ellis available, check his stats and see a 10 year vet with 1.5 sacks.

 

[superpunk]

Second, they are LYING to Ellis-- supposedly asking him to play a different position, one he is totally unfamiliar with. Reading between the lines, it's almost completely BS. It's all a premise for what they really want-- for Ellis to be a backup while the young studs they are developing continue to start (despite not being better than Ellis yet).

Right - they're lying.

500k means......what?

When looking for starting 4-3 DE's, they will see Ellis available, check his stats and see a 10 year vet with 1.5 sacks.

Oh sure. NFL teams do all their scouting based on the last year of a stat sheet.

Get real with this junk ravid.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Your working one job for 10+ years. Your company has you on what is in essence a year to year contract. They ask you to move to something entirely different, that your not sure you can do, and that you don't believe your best suited for. I think its only reasonable that you ask them to assume a little of your risk, because if it doesn't work out and they release you, your value is less than it had been.

Or if you know ahead of time that you're in a volatile career that pays millions of dollars but doesn't offer much stability, you can always change careers.

Greg isn't being asked to do anything that hundreds of NFL players, including ones much better than Greg, have been asked to do. Its part of the job. If Jason Taylor can change positions for a new coach and a new scheme, Greg Ellis can. If Ray Lewis can change back and forth from the 4-3 to the 3-4, Greg Ellis can. If Terrell Suggs can move back and forth from the 3-4 to the 4-3, Greg Ellis can. This isn't a special situation for Greg Ellis. This is everyday life in the NFL. Most of them seem to be able to do it without holding out from mini-camps and throwing a hissy.

 

[dargonking999]

Dear Greg Ellis,

****

BTW did i mention to ****!

Go play some football, stop being a little pricky girl. If you can man up and play some football, then you might be amzed. Cuz i could have sworn even sitting on the bench for half the year, you amassed 8 sacks. , you know only the highest total you've ever gotten here. like i said **** and play football

 

[wileedog]

When looking for starting 4-3 DE's, they will see Ellis available, check his stats and see a 10 year vet with 1.5 sacks.

And even the most casual fantasy football GM in the world would take 30 seconds to research the fact the Ellis was moved out of position in a new defense he might not have been suited for and turned into a role player for a year.

A real GM might even take a few minutes more to watch the 2004 game tapes of Ellis as a 4-3 DE and make his decisions based on that.

This is way overblown.

 

[InmanRoshi]

When looking for starting 4-3 DE's, they will see Ellis available, check his stats and see a 10 year vet with 1.5 sacks.

Considering he's racking up 1.5 sacks while seeing 100% of all snaps in a 4 man line nickel in pass rushing situations, GM"s would be wise to pass on him. He obviously can't cut the mustard.

Terrell Suggs racked up 12 sacks just playing in nickel packages as a rookie.

 

[ZRO]

.. and our real problem is Greg Ellis.

So much for those "team leaders", eh?

 

[dbair1967]

.. and our real problem is Greg Ellis.

So much for those "team leaders", eh?

please, Greg Ellis isnt a "problem"....the guy isnt a cancer or a trouble maker

he got hosed bigtime last yr by Parcells (who proved that he doesnt always play the best players because he benched a healthy Ellis for no reason last season) and has legit concerns...he wants to be on the field and unlike alot of players, actually WORK to earn his play...he's been one of the most consistent, dedicated players we've had over the years

David

 

[ravidubey]

please, Greg Ellis isnt a "problem"....the guy isnt a cancer or a trouble maker

he got hosed bigtime last yr by Parcells (who proved that he doesnt always play the best players because he benched a healthy Ellis for no reason last season) and has legit concerns...he wants to be on the field and unlike alot of players, actually WORK to earn his play...he's been one of the most consistent, dedicated players we've had over the years

David

This is all true but it makes the head of "betrayed fans" hurt too much to actually be absorbed.

 

[RCowboyFan]

please, Greg Ellis isnt a "problem"....the guy isnt a cancer or a trouble maker

he got hosed bigtime last yr by Parcells (who proved that he doesnt always play the best players because he benched a healthy Ellis for no reason last season) and has legit concerns...he wants to be on the field and unlike alot of players, actually WORK to earn his play...he's been one of the most consistent, dedicated players we've had over the years

David

Well I guess this is Bash Ellis season now. I am not saying Ellis is a saint or not above critisizm, but it really becoming over the top with some of the bashing taking on Ellis.

And comparing him TO is just plain rediculous. TO called out his QB etc. Its one thing to hold out for more money, but its another thing to bash fellow teammates.

If Ellis does that in future, i.e bash his teammates, then I will join the chorus of bashing him. Till then, Ellis has some legitimate issues, and maybe not the way I would have handled it, but I can totally understand where is coming from.

I know, people have little sympathy about the money he is asking for or complaining about, but when you make it that far, there is only so much time left to make money. And Ellis is dangerously coming close to never getting another good payout. People have to Remember, Grant wistrom (sp?) was paid much more than Ellis was when he became a FA, simply because Ellis didn't test open market.

So people complaining about Ellis and his attitude need to also check that Ellis was paid less then Market money. Obviously that is because market was not set and Ellis never tested the market. Either way he never complained about it.

Now chances are if he fails in this experiment, he barely will get good money in open market, if he released next year. We fans wont care anyway. Maybe most of us would play free and give some of our body parts to play for Dallas Cowboys if we had the ability, but that only lasts till you make it there. So lets not bash him, because he is trying to make money when he can.

But if he starts bashing teammates or Front Office etc., then I will be bashing Ellis too.

 

[CoCo]

No matter if you feel Ellis is justified or not, its an interesting irony which is I believe the point of the post.