The Penn State Aftermath Thread *Penalty Post #403*

[Kingsmith88]

The one thing that could change this I think, is if the NCAA can back up the power Joe had in the department. Where he overstepped his bounds in what happened with student violations (crimes on campus unreleated to football, Joe apparantly had control over his players punishments) etc. TO me that is a NCAA violation.

 

[jobberone]

Unfair to punish the entire program. Go after the guilty parties.

 

[TNCowboy]

yeah, no reason to punish the football program that protected a child rapist so they could further their decade of mediocre football.

Not only that, but the top officials in the program, the athletic department, and the university as a whole are complicit. If any transgressions ever warranted the death penalty for a program, this is it.

 

[Rogah]

I don't think they can make a case for a rule Violation.

I have to call bull on this. I can't say I know the NCAA rules inside and out, but I'm sure that somewhere in that rule book is a clause that pertains to the overall actions of the athletic departments. I have no doubt there is a "catch all" clause they can apply to when a program engages in such reprehensible activity.

The NCAA punishing PSU athletics for this would be akin to the NCAA punishing Florida State if one of their professors was raping students (bit extreme) and the covered it up.

Actually it would be nothing like that because your hypothetical professor has no ties to the athletic department, hence the NCAA (the "AA" stands for "athletic association") would have no jurisdiction.

In this case, the members of the athletic department were not only the transgressors, but the ones actively covering up. If Sandusky did what he did and no one knew about it, I would not support sanctions. But when there is a conspiracy of silence within the athletic department, that falls square into the NCAA's jurisdiction.

I predict what will happen is the university and the NCAA get together to negotiate some sort of sanctions. I would not be surprised to see Penn State take a year off from playing. The NCAA is not going to want to appear to be too heavy handed, but they really can't just sit there and do nothing. Similarly, the university isn't going to want to behave as if they are procedding with business as usual.

 

[Hoofbite]

Im saying he's human.. he sins. Just like the rest of us. The media built him up to be above us all, a "God" like figure, and then they jump just as quickly to tear him down.

It draws in readers.. people eat it up. He made a terrible mistake. Everyone knows it, he knew it. Thoughts should be focused on the victims now, with prayers and hope for them.

As for the "death penalty" to the football program.. that'd be just silly.

They build him up because he gave them no reason not to. He appeared to be every bit the legend that he was made out to be.

Now, there is no reason to support the man at all and the media is giving him what he rightfully deserves.

 

[Rogah]

In the grand scheme, what does the removal of a single statue truly accomplish?

It says "we're not going to be known as a university that honors people who aid in the violent rape and molestation of children."

You build statues for people you honor and respect as being great men. Joe Paterno no longer falls into that category.

 

[Kingsmith88]

I have to call bull on this. I can't say I know the NCAA rules inside and out, but I'm sure that somewhere in that rule book is a clause that pertains to the overall actions of the athletic departments. I have no doubt there is a "catch all" clause they can apply to when a program engages in such reprehensible activity.

You say you don't know the rules but claim bull. Ok.

NCAA doesn't have the jurisdiction to do anything about the Sandusky case or the apparent cover up by PSU's administration. Joe's oversight/special treatment for students on the football team when violating university rules may be another issue. This is a criminal matter handled by the appriopriate authorities.

Actually it would be nothing like that because your hypothetical professor has no ties to the athletic department, hence the NCAA (the "AA" stands for "athletic association") would have no jurisdiction.

The NCAA deals with athletic violations I don't see an athletic violation of their rules. That is all I am saying.

In this case, the members of the athletic department were not only the transgressors, but the ones actively covering up. If Sandusky did what he did and no one knew about it, I would not support sanctions. But when there is a conspiracy of silence within the athletic department, that falls square into the NCAA's jurisdiction.

actually it was a university cover up not just the athletic department. It was a cover up of a crime, not an NCAA rule.

I predict what will happen is the university and the NCAA get together to negotiate some sort of sanctions. I would not be surprised to see Penn State take a year off from playing. The NCAA is not going to want to appear to be too heavy handed, but they really can't just sit there and do nothing. Similarly, the university isn't going to want to behave as if they are procedding with business as usual.

I think you are wrong. I don't think the NCAA will do anything. I do think PSU may impose some sanctions on themselves.

You make some good points I just don't believe the NCAA wants to or is capable of doing anything in this case. I could be wrong.

 

[Rogah]

You say you don't know the rules but claim bull. Ok.

Yes that's right because I know that agreements like these between schools or individuals and governing bodies always have a "catch-all" clause which gives the governing body the authority to address things like this which are completley unforeseeable.

You can't make a rulebook that addresses any single event in the range of possibility. Who would have thought when the NCAA made these rules they'd have to put in a passage about what they can do if an assistant coach is systematically raping little boys and the football program knew about it and covered it up?

Hence the inclusion of catch all clauses.

NCAA doesn't have the jurisdiction to do anything about the Sandusky case or the apparent cover up by PSU's administration.

They have both the legal and moral authority to sanction Penn State.

actually it was a university cover up not just the athletic department. It was a cover up of a crime, not an NCAA rule.

Oh, the university will be paying through the teeth in court settlements, but that's a whole 'nother matter.

I thnk you are wrong. I don't think the NCAA will do anything. I do think PSU may impose some sanctions on themselves.

You make some good points I just don't believe the NCAA wants to or is capable of doing anything in this case. I could be wrong.

There's too much pressure for them to act.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I have to call bull on this. I can't say I know the NCAA rules inside and out, but I'm sure that somewhere in that rule book is a clause that pertains to the overall actions of the athletic departments. I have no doubt there is a "catch all" clause they can apply to when a program engages in such reprehensible activity.

"Lack of institutional control"

 

[baj1dallas]

I wasn't comparing the two, I was just pointing out that having that statue there impacts more than just PSU.

No it doesn't. That statue isn't hurting, or otherwise affecting anybody.

 

[Hoofbite]

Guess the new dialog is about Joe's contract negotiations that happened right at the time he was being questioned. Or something to that extent.

Not sure what the implications were. Maybe people are thinking he was locking up his future because he knew a **** storm was coming.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

They build him up because he gave them no reason not to. He appeared to be every bit the legend that he was made out to be.

Now, there is no reason to support the man at all and the media is giving him what he rightfully deserves.

Building any man up to be a "God" like figure is stupid. Downright stupid. Every man has skeletons in his closet. Every man sins. They thought up that bs and built him up to be someone more than human, more than a man. Yet in a flash they don't hesitate to focus on tearing him down from the perch they irrationally placed him on in the first place.

..and its all because it sells. People eat it up. The guy is simply a man. Yes, he made a terrible mistake here and it unfortunately helped lead to good children being hurt. Yet i don't look at only the negative, and to me, he still did a hell of a lot of great things for a hell of alot of people that he came in contact with over his lifetime. He messed up big time, but looking at the overall picture, he did alot more good for his fellow man than most of us do in a lifetime.

Alot of people screwed up in this situation. From the PSU janitor all the way up to state officals, state welfare agents, and even the Governor of PA. Up and down the board, many many people failed these children. Yet i have yet to hear anyone besides Joe admit they screwed up and publicly come out and say they wish they had done more and show any kind of remorse for their actions in this situation.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

onlly way Cajun and Roy would finally admit reality was if JoePa came back and admitted it to their faces.

Im sorry, but burm.. you are either clueless or just simply can't read, bud.

I've already said multiple times that im not defending any of Joe's actions that that he was CLEARLY wrong in how he handled this. Im not sure how much more clear i can be about it, idk if its a comprehension issue or what?

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Im sorry, but burm.. you are either clueless or just simply can't read, bud.

I've already said multiple times that im not defending any of Joe's actions that that he was CLEARLY wrong in how he handled this. Im not sure how much more clear i can be about it, idk if its a comprehension issue or what?

You've tried to diminish his blame or what he did by claiming that he 'made a mistake like we all do' and continue to preach this, with a recent post saying 'he did more good than bad.'

He didn't make a mistake. He was a liar and a coward who covered up the rape of children and allowed a child rapist to run free and continue to run the Second Mile program, a breeding ground for his pedophelia.

To claim it was a 'mistake' is diminishing what he did and the person he truly was. Not to mention his demanding that he handle player discipline instead of the Chief Disciplinarian, Dr. Triponey.

It is a behavioral pattern. He was a coverup artist. And what he did far outweighs any of the good he did.









YR

 

[RoyTheHammer]

You've tried to diminish his blame or what he did by claiming that he 'made a mistake like we all do' and continue to preach this, with a recent post saying 'he did more good than bad.'

He didn't make a mistake. He was a liar and a coward who covered up the rape of children and allowed a child rapist to run free and continue to run the Second Mile program, a breeding ground for his pedophelia.

To claim it was a 'mistake' is diminishing what he did and the person he truly was. Not to mention his demanding that he handle player discipline instead of the Chief Disciplinarian, Dr. Triponey.

It is a behavioral pattern. He was a coverup artist. And what he did far outweighs any of the good he did.

You keep your opinion, YR, and i'll keep mine. Honestly, neither of our opinions of how much good or bad he did for his fellow man means anything at all. What people who knew him remember of what he did for them, good or bad, is all that matters now. That is his true legacy. Not the court of public opinion from those who like to sit and judge from afar.

 

[Rogah]

Im sorry, but burm.. you are either clueless or just simply can't read, bud.

I've already said multiple times that im not defending any of Joe's actions that that he was CLEARLY wrong in how he handled this. Im not sure how much more clear i can be about it, idk if its a comprehension issue or what?

Your "every man sins" routine is a thinly veiled attempt to mitigate just how egregious Paterno's actions were.

True, no man is perfect. Yes, every single one of us has sinned. But what Paterno did goes WAY above and beyond what the average man does.

 

[Rogah]

You keep your opinion, YR, and i'll keep mine. Honestly, neither of our opinions of how much good or bad he did for his fellow man means anything at all. What people who knew him remember of what he did for them, good or bad, is all that matters now. That is his true legacy. Not the court of public opinion from those who like to sit and judge from afar.

If nobody's opinion matters then why are you in here reading ours and sharing yours? The court of public opinion will weigh quite heavily in how Paterno is remembered, and he was a man obsessed with the court of public opinion. I only regret he didn't live to have the shame and scorn he deserved levied on him while he was alive.

 

[Hoofbite]

Building any man up to be a "God" like figure is stupid. Downright stupid. Every man has skeletons in his closet. Every man sins. They thought up that bs and built him up to be someone more than human, more than a man. Yet in a flash they don't hesitate to focus on tearing him down from the perch they irrationally placed him on in the first place.

Yes, how stupid of the media to look at a guy who has spent his entire life as an admirable figure and treat him with respect and dignity. Enough with the "God" hyperbole. Nobody credited with divinity. People were simply under the illusion he was an admirable figure.

Oh and how stupid for the media to figure out that the same guy was in fact a selfish slimeball and then treat him like such.

..and its all because it sells. People eat it up. The guy is simply a man. Yes, he made a terrible mistake here and it unfortunately helped lead to good children being hurt.

Simply a man? You keep saying this like somehow it should be expected that he or any other person knowingly conceal a pedophile. We're just men. Bull****.

Quick question, was it "selling" when the media was building up? Or is it only selling now? Where they reporting things about him when they were building him up only because it was selling?

Yet i don't look at only the negative, and to me, he still did a hell of a lot of great things for a hell of alot of people that he came in contact with over his lifetime. He messed up big time, but looking at the overall picture, he did alot more good for his fellow man than most of us do in a lifetime.

Maybe I won't be able to look back on all the people I have helped and say that I am anywhere near Paterno's level in that regard. I can live with that.

I can live with that because I know that I'll never knowingly turn my eye on something as grotest as child rape.

That's a tradoff I'll accept.

Alot of people screwed up in this situation. From the PSU janitor all the way up to state officals, state welfare agents, and even the Governor of PA. Up and down the board, many many people failed these children. Yet i have yet to hear anyone besides Joe admit they screwed up and publicly come out and say they wish they had done more and show any kind of remorse for their actions in this situation.

Maybe that's because any sort of admitted wrong doing right now might land someone in the slammer.

Good luck getting anyone in the case to convict themselves.

The board though has come out and said it is accountable for what happens. Little more than nothing but if you think you are going to get those who are under close scrutiny to come out and fess up for not doing enough, you're sadly barking up the wrong tree.

 

[BoysFan4ever]

We all hate hearing people's failings. I always admired him. This is just such a tragic story from every angle. Heartbreaking.

 

[NeonNinja]

You've tried to diminish his blame or what he did by claiming that he 'made a mistake like we all do' and continue to preach this, with a recent post saying 'he did more good than bad.'

He didn't make a mistake. He was a liar and a coward who covered up the rape of children and allowed a child rapist to run free and continue to run the Second Mile program, a breeding ground for his pedophelia.

To claim it was a 'mistake' is diminishing what he did and the person he truly was. Not to mention his demanding that he handle player discipline instead of the Chief Disciplinarian, Dr. Triponey.

It is a behavioral pattern. He was a coverup artist. And what he did far outweighs any of the good he did.









YR

Agreed.