The Penn State Aftermath Thread *Penalty Post #403*

[joseephuss]

Yes, how stupid of the media to look at a guy who has spent his entire life as an admirable figure and treat him with respect and dignity. Enough with the "God" hyperbole. Nobody credited with divinity. People were simply under the illusion he was an admirable figure.

Somebody credited Paterno with divinity and has now changed their mind.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/coll...oe-paterno-mural-halo-painted-over/56228106/1

Artist paints over Joe Paterno's halo on mural

Artist Michael Pilato initially unveiled the mural "Inspiration" 12 years ago in downtown State College, Pa. Lately, he's had to make a few changes.

Pilato made one Saturday, removing the halo over former football coach Joe Paterno amid Penn State's child sex abuse scandal. The artist had added the halo after Paterno's death in January.

 

[joseephuss]

Guess the new dialog is about Joe's contract negotiations that happened right at the time he was being questioned. Or something to that extent.

Not sure what the implications were. Maybe people are thinking he was locking up his future because he knew a **** storm was coming.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-newswire-20120715,0,1535859.story

Joe Paterno sweetened retirement deal as scandal brewed

The late Penn State football coach began contract talks the same month he testified before a grand jury in the Jerry Sandusky sex abuse case.

Penn State football coach Joe Paterno began talks that resulted in a sweetened retirement contract in the same month that he testified before a grand jury in the Jerry Sandusky sex abuse case, and all members of the board of trustees weren't informed of the new package before the scandal engulfed the university, according to a published report.

Paterno and the university reached agreement on the amended contract that eventually totaled $5.5 million in August, months before charges were filed against Sandusky, but they began negotiating in January, the New York Times reported Saturday.

 

[burmafrd]

Im sorry, but burm.. you are either clueless or just simply can't read, bud.

I've already said multiple times that im not defending any of Joe's actions that that he was CLEARLY wrong in how he handled this. Im not sure how much more clear i can be about it, idk if its a comprehension issue or what?

the only two clueless are you and Cajun

You keep blathering about a mistake; I guess you think OJ's acts were a mistake too.

 

[DallasEast]

It says "we're not going to be known as a university that honors people who aid in the violent rape and molestation of children."

You build statues for people you honor and respect as being great men. Joe Paterno no longer falls into that category.

The statue is just one reminder. One must apply the same philosophy onto all reminders of Paterno for it to achieve optimum effect.

I fully understand the zealous sensationism of the media. It is what too many of them do. What I do not understand is why certain members of the public are so focused upon removing just the statue, but are not assigning equal validity to other examples of Paterno reminders.

 

[DallasEast]

Somebody credited Paterno with divinity and has now changed their mind.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/coll...oe-paterno-mural-halo-painted-over/56228106/1

Artist paints over Joe Paterno's halo on mural

Artist Michael Pilato initially unveiled the mural "Inspiration" 12 years ago in downtown State College, Pa. Lately, he's had to make a few changes.

Pilato made one Saturday, removing the halo over former football coach Joe Paterno amid Penn State's child sex abuse scandal. The artist had added the halo after Paterno's death in January.

This is another example which does not make sense. Painting over the halo still leaves the image of Paterno. In effect, another reminder of the man remains visible.

I can understand the artist's reluctance of removing his entire piece of art. However, I would like to see what the public's reaction will be after his editing job. And the media is slipping if it cannot milk this piecemeal effort for all its worth.

[Edit] Just read the entire article. The artist had previously removed Sandusky's image completely from the same mural. That makes sense, but he painted a blue ribbon symbolizing the child abuse victims on Paterno's suit in addition to removing the halo. Would it not make more sense to remove Paterno completely and paint a huge blue ribbon on the mural in remembrance of the victims instead?

 

[Joe Realist]

I get the defensive reactions and I get why people feel the way they do. I didnt know Joe Pa but I will share similar experience. You may have read about the trial of Monsignor Lynn of the Archdiosese of Philadelphia. At one time he was the right hand man of a former Cardinal in Philly. You have heard/read that there was a big cover up of priests who sexually abused boys and how priests were shuffled around. Lynn was the one who did the shuffling and at the direction of superiors most likely. The first grand jury report came out in 2005 and Lynn's name was in it and at direction of Cardinal, he kept things quiet. He could have been a whistleblower. These events were from 1990s and early 2000's. He was now Msr of my church. Peeople knew him as a kind man, etc. I met with him to ask him why should I come back to church, what about this stuff we are hearing. I left unconvniced of the man, but not in my faith. I remember he stood up in mass on Sunday and said, " I never put a child in harm's way ". Everyone (well most, because I didnt) got up and applauded. I thought what sheep these people were. Neighbors told me, they told Msr Lynn, you were just doing what you were told.. Unreal... Fast forward to today. a second grand jury report comes out and it implicates Lynn, who WAS IN A POSITION TO DO SOMETHING and chose not to. He was recently convicted and is the highest member of the church to ever get a convicition.

I thought I would share because the parallels are similar. A culture of secrecey more concerned with self preservation than protection of innocent children. People in position of power to do something and chose not to. People who knew the man for good and can't comprehend the bad. Your mind must be open.

Roy - I was accepted to PSU and chose to go elsewhere. As I have told some very obtuse PSU friends, nobody is criticizing your degree, your education or your experience. But you cannot ignore the scope and reality of the situation. It is not a mistake, it is appalling and digusting tragdey of epic proportions. If this happened elsewhere, recactions would be different.

 

[Rogah]

The statue is just one reminder. One must apply the same philosophy onto all reminders of Paterno for it to achieve optimum effect.

I fully understand the zealous sensationism of the media. It is what too many of them do. What I do not understand is why certain members of the public are so focused upon removing just the statue, but are not assigning equal validity to other examples of Paterno reminders.

You have to understand that there is a difference between things that remind us of Paterno and things that honor him. A statue is something you erect to honor someone - arguably the ultimate such act - and that is why many of us believe it should come down. I also believe they should take his name off the library because that too is something done to honor the man. Having a biography of the man on the library shelves doesn't honor him. Naming the building after him does.

Until the grand jury convened, Jerry Sandusky was seen as a great assistant coach who lived a life of charity and dedication to Penn State football. Suppose the University had a statue of him somewhere, or named a building after him. Do you think that statue would still be standing? Or that building's name wouldn't have been changed?

 

[RoyTheHammer]

the only two clueless are you and Cajun

You keep blathering about a mistake; I guess you think OJ's acts were a mistake too.

The former director of the FBI who directed this investigation and came out with the report slamming Paterno and all the other PSU officials called it a "mistake" as well.. guess that makes him clueless too, so really the entire report must not mean much if that's the case.



Point is, whether you call it a mistake, a lapse in judgement, whatever you'd like. Joe Paterno messed up. He knew about a situation where Sandusky was doing something sexual or inappropriate with a child on PSU grounds, and he didn't do more than tell his boss. He didn't see it through, he didn't go to the police, he didn't attempt to get Sandusky out of there. That is a terrible, tremendous error in judgement on his part, and its sickening to hear that he wouldn't do more.

Everybody knows it, HE KNEW IT, and has already admitted that he messed up and came out and expressed regret and remorse for his actions/inactions in how he handled it.

Im simply sick of everybody sitting back playing "armchair *****" in this situation. I feel for the children, i pray for them, and i have the knowledge that all of the people who allowed this to happen, from the PSU janitor to the Governor of PA, will have to answer for their sins at their ultimate destination, as will all of the rest of us.

However, as we are all sinners, none of us really have a leg to stand on in trying to judge others. God is the only one fit to judge, and if you arn't religious at all, i apoligize for this point of view, and i can see how you wouldn't understand. For now, im just tired of hearing everyone in the media and in our society pile on and line up to throw their stones at a man who's already admitted his sins and has already moved on to the next life for goodness sake. The focus isn't where it should be in this situation and its a shame.

Some of you think im defending Joe and trying to mask his sins.. that's fine. You clearly don't understand my pov. Continue to sit back and play "armchair *****".. don't let me interrupt.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Roy - I was accepted to PSU and chose to go elsewhere. As I have told some very obtuse PSU friends, nobody is criticizing your degree, your education or your experience. But you cannot ignore the scope and reality of the situation. It is not a mistake, it is appalling and digusting tragdey of epic proportions. If this happened elsewhere, recactions would be different.

I appriciate it, but why would i be worried about anyone criticizing my degree or education? That would be the ultimate in sillyness. As if the scandal had anything to do with the education received by the students at the campus.

Also, i wasn't trying to say that the entire situation was simply a mistake. Clearly, that would be inappropriate.

 

[DallasEast]

You have to understand that there is a difference between things that remind us of Paterno and things that honor him. A statue is something you erect to honor someone - arguably the ultimate such act - and that is why many of us believe it should come down. I also believe they should take his name off the library because that too is something done to honor the man.

With respect, I do not entertain that implied difference. On this topic, it seems that the public wants it cake and to eat it as well. I only wish that the victims were receiving as much attention as the process of picking-and-choosing what should remain publicly visible about Paterno.

In my opinion, Penn State should do away with as much pertaining to Paterno as possible--especially anything post-1998 related--if it wants to reduce the negative implications of its past associations with Paterno to their lowest common denominator. His most worthy accomplishments and lowest failures made up the total man. The statue honored him. His records honored him. Why should one be tainted while the other remain untarnished?

Cake. Eating.

Until the grand jury convened, Jerry Sandusky was seen as a great assistant coach who lived a life of charity and dedication to Penn State football. Suppose the University had a statue of him somewhere, or named a building after him. Do you think that statue would still be standing? Or that building's name wouldn't have been changed?

Answers: no and no.

Question: Why should actions to separate Sandusky or Paterno from Penn State's reputation be limited to statues, buildings or murals? There is much more than statues, buildings and murals which remind or honor the man and his legacy.

 

[DallasEast]

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[Rogah]

The former director of the FBI who directed this investigation and came out with the report slamming Paterno and all the other PSU officials called it a "mistake" as well.. guess that makes him clueless too, so really the entire report must not mean much if that's the case.

Freeh called it a "mistake" as well as calling it many other things which are far worse. We're still waiting for you to use a term more harsh than "mistake."

However, as we are all sinners, none of us really have a leg to stand on in trying to judge others.

Sorry, but that's a load of crap. According to your logic, we can't even judge Sandusky.

 

[Rogah]

I appriciate it, but why would i be worried about anyone criticizing my degree or education?

If that "anyone" was one of us in the forum, then sure you have a point. If that "anyone" is the hiring manager at a company you are trying to get a job at, then maybe you should be a bit more concerned.

I know I sure don't want the first thought a hiring manager has when he sees my resume to be "Child Molestation U."

 

[Rogah]

With respect, I do not entertain that implied difference.

I just don't understand how you don't agree there is a difference between a reminder of someone and something that honors him. I sure that library has books about Hitler, Ghengis Khan and Charles Manson too. Those are "reminders". But I'm pretty sure there are no statues of those guys anywhere on campus.

On this topic, it seems that the public wants it cake and to eat it as well. I only wish that the victims were receiving as much attention as the process of picking-and-choosing what should remain publicly visible about Paterno.

I don't think any of the victims want attention and I respect the media for leaving them out of the limelight. For example, even though the judge allowed their names to be released during the trial, I don't think a single media outlet actually reported any of those names.

If any of the victims wanted attention, all he'd have to do is let the media know he's interested in doing an interview and every single network in this country would be scrambling to give him a 2 hour primetime special. But like I said, I respect the media's discretion regarding the victims and their privacy.

In my opinion, Penn State should do away with as much pertaining to Paterno as possible--especially anything post-1998 related--if it wants to reduce the negative implications of its past associations with Paterno to their lowest common denominator. His most worthy accomplishments and lowest failures made up the total man. The statue honored him. His records honored him. Why should one be tainted while the other remain untarnished?

I think both the statue and his records are tarnished.

Cake. Eating.Answers: no and no.

Question: Why should actions to separate Sandusky or Paterno from Penn State's reputation be limited to statues, buildings or murals? There is much more than statues, buildings and murals which remind or honor the man and his legacy.

Such as what? I'm saying things done to honor a man who helped a pedophile get away with his crimes should be removed. All I know about is the statue and the library but if there's more, then I'd be happy to add it to the list.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

If that "anyone" was one of us in the forum, then sure you have a point. If that "anyone" is the hiring manager at a company you are trying to get a job at, then maybe you should be a bit more concerned.

I know I sure don't want the first thought a hiring manager has when he sees my resume to be "Child Molestation U."

Honestly, if that's the messed up thought process going through a hiring manager's head.. probably better i don't work for that company in the first place. Some insanely flawed logic there.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Freeh called it a "mistake" as well as calling it many other things which are far worse. We're still waiting for you to use a term more harsh than "mistake."
Sorry, but that's a load of crap. According to your logic, we can't even judge Sandusky.

We shouldn't judge anybody.. that is the point. Again, it comes down to a topic we arn't allowed to discuss on here, but that's the general idea. If we were all more worried about our own behavior and actions this world and our society would be alot better than it is right now.

If more people got up in the morning and spent a couple minutes of self reflection thinking about their own faults and how they could better themselves and help those around them live better lives and not grab a coffee and stick their nose in a newspaper reading about all the negativity in this world and saying "Man, that (insert random name) is a sumama gun!".. i feel like maybe our society wouldn't be as screwed up as it is.

The fact that i say we shouldn't judge anybody other than ourselves and you say that's a load of crap is telling of where our society is right now.

 

[DallasEast]

I just don't understand how you don't agree there is a difference between a reminder of someone and something that honors him. I sure that library has books about Hitler, Ghengis Khan and Charles Manson too. Those are "reminders". But I'm pretty sure there are no statues of those guys anywhere on campus.

Were Hitler, Khan and Manson at some point Penn State faculty or almuni? What connection in terms of reminders to Penn State associations do they represent? When did the university bestowed accolades onto them for their contributions to mass murder, world domination and/or satanical cultish legacy?

Consider this my final post in this thread if context shall be stretched to this extreme.

I don't think any of the victims want attention and I respect the media for leaving them out of the limelight. For example, even though the judge allowed their names to be released during the trial, I don't think a single media outlet actually reported any of those names.

If any of the victims wanted attention, all he'd have to do is let the media know he's interested in doing an interview and every single network in this country would be scrambling to give him a 2 hour primetime special. But like I said, I respect the media's discretion regarding the victims and their privacy.

For this, I apologize for communicating poorly. What I had intended to convey was that, if the energies emitting from public opinion to oust a statue could somehow be redirected to serving the welfare of the victims, it would be enormously helpful and positive to the victims. I do not know exactly how. Perhaps charitible contributions to a general victims fund..? Or maybe indirectly via the establishment of an endowment at the university to research the causes of pedophilia and the possible creation of real treatment and preventive measures..? Again, I do not truthfully know how--just only that I believe something more tangible could materialize from the public outcry.

I think both the statue and his records are tarnished.

No argument there. My point is that any actions taken to diminish or remove the taint of Paterno's legacy should not be abbreviated.

Such as what? I'm saying things done to honor a man who helped a pedophile get away with his crimes should be removed. All I know about is the statue and the library but if there's more, then I'd be happy to add it to the list.

And I'm talking about addressing the whole man legacy, not just this-or-that which some feel is "acceptable."

 

[Rogah]

If more people got up in the morning and spent a couple minutes of self reflection thinking about their own faults and how they could better themselves and help those around them live better lives and not grab a coffee and stick their nose in a newspaper reading about all the negativity in this world and saying "Man, that (insert random name) is a sumama gun!".. i feel like maybe our society wouldn't be as screwed up as it is.

The fact that i say we shouldn't judge anybody other than ourselves and you say that's a load of crap is telling of where our society is right now.

I have no problem with me or anyone else calling Jerry Sandusky a complete degenerate scumbag immoral perverted piece of crap. And yes, anyone who says such a thing is indeed judging him.

The fact that you're saying we have no right to judge serial child molestors really speaks more to your views being out of whack than mine.

 

[Rogah]

Were Hitler, Khan and Manson at some point Penn State faculty or almuni?

To the best of my knowledge, no. BUt I bet there's some books in the Penn State library about those individuals. But according to you, books about an individual is a reminder of that individual.

Consider this my final post in this thread if context shall be stretched to this extreme.For this, I apologize for communicating poorly. What I had intended to convey was that, if the energies emitting from public opinion to oust a statue could somehow be redirected to serving the welfare of the victims, it would be enormously helpful and positive to the victims.

I don't think it's an either-or situation. You're making it sound like we have to choose between helping the victims and criticizing Joe Paterno, and anyone who engages in the one cannot also be doing the other. I bet taking down the statue of a man who could have prevented these attacks would be a good first step towards helping those victims heal. Leaving that statue up is a slap in their collective faces.

The victims are going to be compensated mighty heavily for what they went through. I hope they get the counseling and treatment they need to improve their qualities of life. The best thing we as members of society can do to help them is to let them live their lives in privacy and dignity.

 

[casmith07]

I have no problem with me or anyone else calling Jerry Sandusky a complete degenerate scumbag immoral perverted piece of crap. And yes, anyone who says such a thing is indeed judging him.

The fact that you're saying we have no right to judge serial child molestors really speaks more to your views being out of whack than mine.

I'd like to piggyback too, by basically suggesting that the world would be better if I looked in the mirror and didn't judge another person (Paterno) who enabled child molestation for years, is a total slap in the face.

Anyone involved in this thing is scum. The AD, President, Paterno, Sandusky, the lot of them. Throw them all out.