The Penn State Aftermath Thread *Penalty Post #403*

[Yakuza Rich]

The victims are the last thing on anyone's mind in this whole situation.

I disagree wholeheartedly. That's why people are enraged with Paterno, they understand on some level that boys were RAPED and he knew about it and did nothing. The entire attack on him and his legacy is that he's the only one with supporters still in tact. People are enraged because they cannot understand how boys can be raped when Paterno was an accomplice and enabler and still have supporters. The victims are very much on the mind of many people I've discussed this with, except for the Paterno apologists who seemingly are more interested in proving that the guy they stood up for has made them look like a fool.

Lapse in judgement may be a better word

A lapse in judgement doesn't take place over 10 years.

It was a systemic approach of cowardice and dishonesty to conceal Jerry Sandusky's crimes in order to protect their selfish interests.

but its not been proven that Joe knew that Sandusky continually molested, raped boys over all these years and i have serious doubts that if he had known the full scope of the problem he would have let it go or covered for Jerry.. as should any reasonable human being.

Paterno doesn't need to know the 'full scope' of Sandusky's transactions. If he knows that one boy is being molested or fondled by Sandusky, which he knew after McQueary told him, he should have seen that something was done about it...one way or the other.

And your claim that it hasn't been 'proven' is laughable. OJ was not 'proven' to have killed Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown. But, the evidence was reasonably irrefutable. The e-mails in the Freeh report show clear evidence that Paterno knew about it.







YR

 

[RoyTheHammer]

A lapse in judgement doesn't take place over 10 years.

That's right, it doesn't. We agree.

..and again, since some don't seem to understand, im not here to defend any of Joe's actions or the way he handled the situation that he was given knowledge of.

Im against the piling on after the fact when he already admitted he *** up. Everyone knows that, he knew that.. yet it continues about his "legacy". Good grief. All people want to do is rush to condemn and judge others. How many people in this thread have talked about the victims? How many came in posting "God bless the victims, God be with them." How many have talked about "Joe Pa's legacy"?

 

[WV Cowboy]

How many came in posting "God bless the victims, God be with them." How many have talked about "Joe Pa's legacy"?

Those are empty, meaningless words now.

Nothing we say or do at this point can help those victims in any way. Those boys lives have been changed forever! The time to help the victims would have been prior to the abuse, .. but grown men chose not to.

But we can sure give our opinion as to how Paterno should be remembered, .. ie. his "legacy."

Each man creates his own legacy, .. if his is tainted, he has nobody to blame but himself.

 

[03EBZ06]

I agree, there is no proof either way, and i agree Freeh had alot more information than any of us on this board. You realize he didn't say that Joe knew about all of the incidents of abuse, right? If you are leaning on what he discovered, that is.

I have my doubts that Joe knew about all of the incidents of abuse because it has never been proven that he knew of more than one. So, of course, people all can have their own opinions, and that's perfectly fine. All i said was that i have serious doubts that Joe knew off all the abuse, and any reasonable person should have those doubts as well.

You don't have to know ALL about it to discuss his concern with Sandusky, which according to the report, he didn't. No one truely have all the facts initially but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be looked into. Even hint of child molestation by his coach should have caused big alarm for him to seek the truth, but in my mind, he simply didn't want to know.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

an excerpt from The Sporting News today:


All the way back in 1998, when Sandusky was the target of a criminal investigation, Paterno knew there were serious concerns about his top defensive coordinator. But up until his death of lung cancer in January, Paterno always maintained ignorance about the ’98 case. So he’s a liar as well as a coward. Hailed forever as the most ethical coach in football history, Paterno was really a heartless fraud.

“The evidence shows that Mr. Paterno was made aware of the 1998 investigation of Sandusky, followed it closely, but failed to take any action, even though Sandusky had been a key member of his coaching staff for almost 30 years, and had an office just steps away from Mr. Paterno’s,” the report reads.

“At the very least, Mr. Paterno could have alerted the entire football staff, in order to prevent Sandusky from bringing another child into the Lasch Building. Messrs. Spanier, Schultz, Paterno and Curley also failed to alert the Board of Trustees about the 1998 investigation ... None of them even spoke to Sandusky about his conduct.

“In short, nothing was done and Sandusky was allowed to continue with impunity.”

Not once did Paterno ever poke his head into his buddy’s office and say, “Hey, Jer, maybe you should stop bringing around these guests?” That’s what they called Sandusky’s prey, his victims. Guests. The fantastic four are delusional criminals, all of them.

At a press conference in Philadelphia on Thursday morning, Freeh was asked if he believed Paterno could have stopped Sandusky’s predatory behavior. “Many, many witnesses we spoke to described Mr. Paterno as one of the most powerful leaders on campus,” responded Freeh.

“I think it’s a very strong and reasonable inference that he could have done so if he wished.”


http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-fo...y-scandal-coverup?eadid=EL/SICOM&xid=si_ncaaf

What evidence? Again, this is based on one email Curley sent that said "The coach" was interested in the outcome. We know for sure that the coach he was referring to was Paterno? Not Sandusky?

It's easy to throw the dead guy under the bus since he can't refute any of this. It's also easy to blame the guy who is the most high profile. But the most high profile guy isn't always the guy making the decisions.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

That's fair enough, but given the apparent "interest" in the 1998 event by several of the higher-ups at the university and that Sandusky was perhaps Joe's #1 assistant at the time, what sort of chance do you truly think that Joe did not know of the 1998 event at all?

Considering that the DA knew about it but found it not worthy of pursuing charges probably never even registered to Paterno. Had he known, he would have gone to the department as he did in 2002. The problem I have is with the rest of the Penn State officials who KNOW was aware of it. That's all we really KNOW about this from the so called evidence.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

Because Paterno was a liar and a coward who was more interested in protecting the legacy and reputation of Penn State and himself than molested children.

Furthermore, there is a *HISTORY* of Paterno keeping other ILLEGAL activities under wraps. The 2008 ESPN Outside the Lines where *46* different players were arrested in a 5 year period that was finally brought to light and Paterno's response was that it was a 'witch hunt.' The same response he initially claimed after the Grand Jury investigation. Then there's Dr. Vicky Tripony who has e-mail evidence of Paterno forcing the school to have him deal with player punishment instead of Triponey who was the school's Chief Disciplinarian.

He didn't want this being brought to light. That's why he didn't report it.

He had a PATTERN of behavior that has been established of when the rubber hits the road between doing the right thing that could hurt his football program, he chose to find a way to protect the football program.

Keep spinning away.








YR

You keep talking with little knowledge of the facts. You have a former employee who says she has email evidence but did you know Paterno NEVER used email? She either has some contrived email or something that is at best from someone else who is making an assumption. Further, if you ask most players who played for him, they will tell you he was a strict disciplinarian and often benched or suspended his players for even the slightest missteps including not keep up grades.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Those are empty, meaningless words now.

Nothing we say or do at this point can help those victims in any way. Those boys lives have been changed forever! The time to help the victims would have been prior to the abuse, .. but grown men chose not to.

But we can sure give our opinion as to how Paterno should be remembered, .. ie. his "legacy."

Each man creates his own legacy, .. if his is tainted, he has nobody to blame but himself.

Nothing we say can change how Joe or any of the hundreds of other men and women acted either.. but people still want to talk about that more than giving thoughts about the victims, doesn't it seem?

Giving opinions about how one man should be remembered, when you didn't know the man and don't have all the facts about a situation that occured with him, seems pretty pointless to me. Seems it would be a better idea to keep your thoughts with the victims and offer prayers and hope for them.

Yet all we see and hear are people who want to line up to throw their stones.. that's really all that's left to this.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Should this be the Death Penalty for Penn St.?

 

[Yakuza Rich]

You keep talking with little knowledge of the facts. You have a former employee who says she has email evidence but did you know Paterno NEVER used email? She either has some contrived email or something that is at best from someone else who is making an assumption. Further, if you ask most players who played for him, they will tell you he was a strict disciplinarian and often benched or suspended his players for even the slightest missteps including not keep up grades.

Hogwash.

http://********.com/5923920/oops-joe-paterno-knew-how-to-use-email-after-all

The person who doesn't have knowledge of the facts is yourself.






YR

 

[joseephuss]

What evidence? Again, this is based on one email Curley sent that said "The coach" was interested in the outcome. We know for sure that the coach he was referring to was Paterno? Not Sandusky?

It's easy to throw the dead guy under the bus since he can't refute any of this. It's also easy to blame the guy who is the most high profile. But the most high profile guy isn't always the guy making the decisions.

I am sure this Freeh report would have been exactly the same had Paterno still been alive. And I don't know how this is throwing Paterno under the bus when it doesn't mention him alone. The report holds Spanier, Schulz, Curley and Paterno all on the same level of responsibility. Are you implying Freeh has some sort of agenda against Paterno? There was a request to interview Paterno in December 2011, but he died before the interview could be arranged.

Why would the reference to "the coach" in Curley's email be anyone but Paterno? I don't see how or why it would be in reference to Sandusky.

 

[WV Cowboy]

This is just one article after the Freeh report, .. what will it take for some to open their eyes. This is not just made-up stuff. This is real. This happened. The guy was not what you thought he was.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Paterno's legacy may now be damaged beyond repair
NANCY ARMOUR
AP National Writer


For decades Penn State was considered special, immune from the corruption of college athletics by virtue of Joe Paterno's high ideals, long list of victories and even longer list of graduates.

Now, to many people outside Penn State and even some insiders, that's been exposed as an illusion.

A blistering report released Thursday found Paterno helped hush up allegations of child sex abuse against a former assistant that went back more than a decade, sacrificing the ideals he preached to protect his football program. Paterno, former FBI Director Louis Freeh said, was "an integral part of this active decision to conceal."
"I doubt anybody could have imagined this. In eight months, he's gone from St. Joe to something approaching the devil," said Frank Fitzpatrick, a Philadelphia Inquirer columnist and author of two books on Paterno and Penn State, including a biography last year, "Pride of the Lions."

"The contrast between the ethical standards we always associated with Joe and the complete lack of them in how this was handled — if what the Freeh Report says is true, and I have no reason to doubt it is, to sacrifice kids for the reputation of a football program, that's pretty despicable. I can't imagine anything more shocking than that."

Read the rest here: http://webcenters.netscape.compuserve.com/sports/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/1001/20120712/9761.htm

 

[TNCowboy]

Freeh, citing emails and handwritten notes, concluded that Paterno intervened to stop a plan by Curley, Schultz and Spanier to report the 2001 allegation by graduate assistant Mike McQueary to child-welfare authorities.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...damning-report-on-abuse-scandal-at-penn-state

If this part is true, Paterno is also guilty of being nothing short of a monster himself.

People need to remember that just as good people can do bad things, bad people can also do good things. Like donate million$ to their university. Or help charity. Or whatever.

 

[DallasEast]

Should this be the Death Penalty for Penn St.?

In my opinion, no. There are legal ramifications which should determine current or future punishment(s). Sandusky's criminal behavior happened at Penn State facilities. School officials (Paterno, etc.) were knowledgeable to what was happening in varying degrees.

If the NCAA should invoke punishments for Penn State's procedural misconduct, they should inflict penalties which will help promote and institute guarantees which school administration will enact to prevent such things from happening again. Sandusky's pedophilia and the alleged coverup was not a collegiate sports-related transgression. The university's administration should be penalized, not the sports program.

 

[WV Cowboy]

In my opinion, no. There are legal ramifications which should determine current or future punishment(s). Sandusky's criminal behavior happened at Penn State facilities. School officials (Paterno, etc.) were knowledgeable to what was happening in varying degrees.

If the NCAA should invoke punishments for Penn State's procedural misconduct, they should inflict penalties which will help promote and institute guarantees which school administration will enact to prevent such things from happening again. Sandusky's pedophilia and the alleged coverup was not a collegiate sports-related transgression. The university's administration should be penalized, not the sports program.

Sounds about right, .. I agree.

 

[Joe Realist]

What evidence? Again, this is based on one email Curley sent that said "The coach" was interested in the outcome. We know for sure that the coach he was referring to was Paterno? Not Sandusky?

It's easy to throw the dead guy under the bus since he can't refute any of this. It's also easy to blame the guy who is the most high profile. But the most high profile guy isn't always the guy making the decisions.

I'm sorry your idol and hero is not who you thought he was. See previous posts, Paterno had a pattern of behavior. I know he did many great things and I know the football engine helped create the PSU that we know today. Everyone is at fault, Jerry the monster, Corbett, clueless mothers, but when you are in a posiition of power, you use it, which he did for what he wanted.
C'mon - do you really think " coach " is Sandusky? Please.

edit: It is probably for the best Joe passed, unless he was willing to say yes, I lied, I knew,,,etc. Even then, he would be hauled off to court and then it would really be ugly.

 

[jimmy40]

Should this be the Death Penalty for Penn St.?

too much TV contract money for the death penalty to ever be used again.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

too much TV contract money for the death penalty to ever be used again.

If it were simply left up to the NCAA and or Networks and Conference, I would agree. However, I am hearing that Congress is looking into this and asking the question, should this be the Death Penalty? This is why I asked that question. If they get involved, forget about it.

 

[Joe Realist]

You ask about the victims. Read this, it paints of picture of what it would be like to be one of them and what you endure:

http://network.yardbarker.com/all_s..._horror_from_a_different_perspective/11209906

 

[jimmy40]

If it were simply left up to the NCAA and or Networks and Conference, I would agree. However, I am hearing that Congress is looking into this and asking the question, should this be the Death Penalty? This is why I asked that question. If they get involved, forget about it.

the only way this could happen would be if PSU did it to themselves. imo