The Phantom Salary Cap Menace

[Sydla]

I remember Jones firing Landry, the Walker trade, Jimmy leaving, the galloway trade, Romo dropping the ball ...

It is not whether others predicted the same thing. It is Jerry getting the credit (or fail) for it. He wants to bask in the glory of making that gutsy call (when others did the homework that allowed the gutsy call)...

The point I made with Jaylon is that it reflects how PR can affect Jerry and then hopefully the FO. He felt compelled to make various declarations about Jaylon etc. due to his perceived pressure.

Pressure is the only thing fans have. If fans can influence sports writers, then the effect on the FO would be substantially magnified.

Why does it make a difference - a lot of blog/sports writers do not understand the cap issues and still are stuck in the old cap world. That old cap world is no longer true at least for the next 4-5 years.

You overrate the pressure fans can put on a team.

The only way to "speak" to owners is with your wallets and that's never going to happen with Dallas.

So stop embarrassing yourself with this notion that if fans complain enough and demand 3 uber talented FAs, the front office is suddenly going to do it.

 

[waldoputty]

You overrate the pressure fans can put on a team.

The only way to "speak" to owners is with your wallets and that's never going to happen with Dallas.

So stop embarrassing yourself with this notion that if fans complain enough and demand 3 uber talented FAs, the front office is suddenly going to do it.

No, it is not the fans directly - that would be simple-minded.
It is fans -> sports writers -> FO
And it is not demanding 3 FA, but it is making it common knowledge that the FO is not putting on the best product they can by showing how many more top players they could have brought during the window.

 

[DallasEast]

The point I made with Jaylon is that it reflects how PR can affect Jerry and then hopefully the FO. He felt compelled to make various declarations about Jaylon etc. due to his perceived pressure.

Or to hype what he feels will be a huge asset for his team. Jones knows hype.

Pressure is the only thing fans have. If fans can influence sports writers, then the effect on the FO would be substantially magnified.

I seen this story told on this site many many times. Boycott..? Billboard..? Picket..? Social media campaign..? Will there be a totally unrehashed method introduced that will directly influence Jones a single time before... well... he no longer runs the franchise..?

Why does it make a difference - a lot of blog/sports writers do not understand the cap issues and still are stuck in the old cap world. That old cap world is no longer true at least for the next 4-5 years.

Okay. I'm exiting the Twilight Zone now. Good day.

 

[ghst187]

Interesting OP.
I'm hoping that a lot of good FAs start wanting to come play with Dak and Zeke because they see it's only a matter of time before they win rings and they are guys you want to play with.

On your last point, the Pats have the greatest QB to ever live along with the best coach who knows how to gameplan, make in game adjustments, manage the game, manage his players, and find mismatches. They don't need a lot of good players. In fact their roster is crap outside of Brady. Half their players are cast offs and discards. Clearly, the rest of the league needs superior talent at most positions to win. Clearly, we need superior talent at all positions plus the other team to stop trying for Garrett to win in the playoffs. If Belicheat had been our coach I guarantee we win rings in 2007, 2014, and 2016 if not more.

 

[waldoputty]

Or to hype what he feels will be a huge asset for his team. Jones knows hype.
I seen this story told on this site many many times. Boycott..? Billboard..? Picket..? Social media campaign..? Will there be a totally unrehashed method introduced that will directly influence Jones a single time before... well... he no longer runs the franchise..?
Okay. I'm exiting the Twilight Zone now. Good day.

actually, i already posted something like this in BTB.
after dealing with the uproar from people who do not understand the cap, i suspect I would have gotten at least some of the writers' attention.
a nice title and lots of controversy would help.

you can also influence sports writers by responding to their articles in comments.
they read those.
if enough people make the point, they will get the point.
most of those people contribute in BTB and probably read CZ.

 

[Kaiser]

Seriously? The Dallas front office is influenced by public opinion? In that case, wouldn't the logical assumption be that past front office decisions would have more closely reflected what fans (or fansites like CowboysZone) desired instead of the actual roster acquisitions that took place?

Every time Risen Star posts, Jerry Jones takes a drink.

It explains a lot when you think about it.

 

[waldoputty]

Interesting OP.
I'm hoping that a lot of good FAs start wanting to come play with Dak and Zeke because they see it's only a matter of time before they win rings and they are guys you want to play with.

On your last point, the Pats have the greatest QB to ever live along with the best coach who knows how to gameplan, make in game adjustments, manage the game, manage his players, and find mismatches. They don't need a lot of good players. In fact their roster is crap outside of Brady. Half their players are cast offs and discards. Clearly, the rest of the league needs superior talent at most positions to win. Clearly, we need superior talent at all positions plus the other team to stop trying for Garrett to win in the playoffs. If Belicheat had been our coach I guarantee we win rings in 2007, 2014, and 2016 if not more.

Thanks.
It certainly invited lots of upset comments, but to be honest it was totally expected.

Pat do have Brady and Belicheat.
But Dak was the one who beat Brady's record in INTS so there is hope, as well as Brady being mostly done.
I think you got my point that IF New England got better players to surround Brady with, how many more superbowls would they have won?

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Sometimes it is wise to spend big on a specific player. Sometimes one player can help make a difference with a team. 94 helped make a difference for us in the early 90's. Reggie White going to a frozen wasteland helped Green Bay along with a young QB drafted by the Falcons.

However we must also remember that just because we got money, it does not mean we should spend it on a high priced player. Thankfully Philly saved the FO from spending all the money on a certain CB from Oakland a number of years back. As much as we over paid Carr at CB...it is nothing to what we would have had with the CB from Oakland that flat out tanked in philly.

We also learned, or it seems we have, our lesson from trading picks to teams like we did with Roy Williams and Joey Galloway. Those big trades and contracts did not serve us well.

However if for some reason a very good Pass Rushing DE was available in FA...and as much as Mickey is annoying you do have to ask WHY they are available if they are that good, you have to try get that guy. Problem is deciding if he is worth that kind of money.

Like Stephen has said...the market may dictate the price of a player but the market, in some years, wants to pay a second string or part time guy as a full time all pro player. And when you pay that kind of money you better have a darn good idea that they can live up to that money and not be someone that you know from the start that you over paid for because you know they are not a pro bowl type player.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Jerry likes bad press. He doesn't care if we complain and moan about his club loudly. He cares when we stop talking or more importantly stop opening the wallet.

 

[waldoputty]

Sometimes it is wise to spend big on a specific player. Sometimes one player can help make a difference with a team. 94 helped make a difference for us in the early 90's. Reggie White going to a frozen wasteland helped Green Bay along with a young QB drafted by the Falcons.

However we must also remember that just because we got money, it does not mean we should spend it on a high priced player. Thankfully Philly saved the FO from spending all the money on a certain CB from Oakland a number of years back. As much as we over paid Carr at CB...it is nothing to what we would have had with the CB from Oakland that flat out tanked in philly.

We also learned, or it seems we have, our lesson from trading picks to teams like we did with Roy Williams and Joey Galloway. Those big trades and contracts did not serve us well.

However if for some reason a very good Pass Rushing DE was available in FA...and as much as Mickey is annoying you do have to ask WHY they are available if they are that good, you have to try get that guy. Problem is deciding if he is worth that kind of money.

Like Stephen has said...the market may dictate the price of a player but the market, in some years, wants to pay a second string or part time guy as a full time all pro player. And when you pay that kind of money you better have a darn good idea that they can live up to that money and not be someone that you know from the start that you over paid for because you know they are not a pro bowl type player.

That is a good point, but I am talking about players like Melvin Ingram, JPP etc.
The FO would presumably know if they fit or not.
The problem is it is a moving market with the rising cap, and the notion of top dollar needs to shift with that.

 

[waldoputty]

Jerry likes bad press. He doesn't care if we complain and moan about his club loudly. He cares when we stop talking or more importantly stop opening the wallet.

The worst thing you can do is to make Jerry a nobody.
Other than that, I am sure he prefers good press over bad press.
I am not even sure the wallet is that big of an issue, the Jones have more money than they know what to do with for 100 generations.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

That is a good point, but I am talking about players like Melvin Ingram, JPP etc.
The FO would presumably know if they fit or not.
The problem is it is a moving market with the rising cap, and the notion of top dollar needs to shift with that.

I personally do not see anyone in this FA market that is worth a HUGGGGEEEE contract. I don't see a Charles Haley type of player (not saying he was a FA). I don't see a Reggie White type of player out there.
I see some players that can be better than what we have, which is not a huge leap, but I don't know if I see a player worth a Suh or even a Haynesworth type of contract.

 

[waldoputty]

I personally do not see anyone in this FA market that is worth a HUGGGGEEEE contract. I don't see a Charles Haley type of player (not saying he was a FA). I don't see a Reggie White type of player out there.
I see some players that can be better than what we have, which is not a huge leap, but I don't know if I see a player worth a Suh or even a Haynesworth type of contract.

Well, one can reasonably expect Elliott to have 5 dominant years given he is a RB.
If you count that as the time horizon, we have 4 years left.
It is also reasonable to assume that FA situation may not get better as the very best players are locked up.
So if the market has shifted to 'top dollars' for the players available, then that is the market.
If we chose not to play in the market, then we simply lose our opportunity in a 4 year window.

Furthermore, strengthening the team in such a fashion would allow us to go BPA in the draft.
That would improve our chances of continuing to draft probowlers while maximizing the chances of winning the lombardi.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Well, one can reasonably expect Elliott to have 5 dominant years given he is a RB.
If you count that as the time horizon, we have 4 years left.
It is also reasonable to assume that FA situation may not get better as the very best players are locked up.
So if the market has shifted to 'top dollars' for the players available, then that is the market.
If we chose not to play in the market, then we simply lose our opportunity in a 4 year window.

If you pay market prices for the likes of Albert Haynesworth and Nnamdi Asomugha...you have also wasted your 4 year window and spend a butt load of money is a losing effort as well.

 

[waldoputty]

If you pay market prices for the likes of Albert Haynesworth and Nnamdi Asomugha...you have also wasted your 4 year window and spend a butt load of money is a losing effort as well.

I presume you do not mean all the FAs will be losers.
That is true, if you pick losers, you get losers.
You can to assume they can pick the best ones out of the bunch.
Note that the Giants' 3 top FA expenditures ($200 million spending spree) transformed their D last year.
I dont think any of us would have considered those players to be Reggie Whites or Charles Haleys either.

Furthermore, strengthening the team in such a fashion would allow us to go BPA in the draft.
That would improve our chances of continuing to draft probowlers while maximizing the chances of winning the lombardi.

 

[Nightman]

actually, i already posted something like this in BTB.
after dealing with the uproar from people who do not understand the cap, i suspect I would have gotten at least some of the writers' attention.
a nice title and lots of controversy would help.

you can also influence sports writers by responding to their articles in comments.
they read those.
if enough people make the point, they will get the point.
most of those people contribute in BTB and probably read CZ.

The Cowboys FO is aware of this...that is why they try to appear cap poor every year

It is intentional so the press and then the fanbase won't scream about signing this guy and that guy

If we are always against the cap it is work just to get compliant and sign our own guys......you see it here at the CZ every day....longtime posters scream about Dead Money and the need to sign TSmith- TFred- ZMartin etc etc

DAL could come out and trade Romo Day1, cut Free, Wilber, Hanna and Morris and restructure our top 5 contracts.........that would leave us 50m under the cap.... but now they have to spend it

No more claiming poor.............instead they do it piece by piece over the course of the whole Spring until all the expensive players are gone....... it may not be a bad strategy but it isn't honest

But like you said, too many sportswriters and too many Zoners are stuck in the old salary cap days
It was flat from 2009 to 2013 at 123m.....that means it didn't go up for 5 years....OUCH

Since 2013 it has gone up 45m+.........YES!!!!

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The worst thing you can do is to make Jerry a nobody.
Other than that, I am sure he prefers good press over bad press.
I am not even sure the wallet is that big of an issue, the Jones have more money than they know what to do with for 100 generations.

I don't. He stirred the Romo QB controversy with his comments in the Fall for example. He just wants people talking.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I presume you do not mean all the FAs will be losers.
That is true, if you pick losers, you get losers.
You can to assume they can pick the best ones out of the bunch.
Note that the Giants' 3 top FA expenditures ($200 million spending spree) transformed their D last year.
I dont think any of us would have considered those players to be Reggie Whites or Charles Haleys either.

Furthermore, strengthening the team in such a fashion would allow us to go BPA in the draft.
That would improve our chances of continuing to draft probowlers while maximizing the chances of winning the lombardi.

Again...if you have good FAs worthy of a TOP END contract...so be it.

However...I just don't see it. And there is no way in hades I want us paying over the top inflated market value for a player that will never live up to the contract.

If you can get me a deal on a guy with some incentives or just a good deal ala Glover back in the day...so be it.

 

[waldoputty]

Again...if you have good FAs worthy of a TOP END contract...so be it.

However...I just don't see it. And there is no way in hades I want us paying over the top inflated market value for a player that will never live up to the contract.

If you can get me a deal on a guy with some incentives or just a good deal ala Glover back in the day...so be it.

Well would you have pay top dollar for the 3 Giants FA last year?
Would you now?

 

[waldoputty]

The Cowboys FO is aware of this...that is why they try to appear cap poor every year

It is intentional so the press and then the fanbase won't scream about signing this guy and that guy

If we are always against the cap it is work just to get compliant and sign our own guys......you see it here at the CZ every day....longtime posters scream about Dead Money and the need to sign TSmith- TFred- ZMartin etc etc

DAL could come out and trade Romo Day1, cut Free, Wilber, Hanna and Morris and restructure our top 5 contracts.........that would leave us 50m under the cap.... but now they have to spend it

No more claiming poor.............instead they do it piece by piece over the course of the whole Spring until all the expensive players are gone....... it may not be a bad strategy but it isn't honest

But like you said, too many sportswriters and too many Zoners are stuck in the old salary cap days
It was flat from 2009 to 2013 at 123m.....that means it didn't go up for 5 years....OUCH

Since 2013 it has gone up 45m+.........YES!!!!

I dont understand why so few people see this.
It is so blatantly obvious.
The key is getting sports writers / blog writers to see the new way of thinking.

I dont even understand why it makes sense for the FO.
More playoff success -> more profit.
I dont know, but would suspect more sales > extra salary
Also does the team get to keep most of the ticket sales and tv revenue from extra playoff games?