The Phantom Salary Cap Menace

[waldoputty]

The Cowboys FO is aware of this...that is why they try to appear cap poor every year

It is intentional so the press and then the fanbase won't scream about signing this guy and that guy

If we are always against the cap it is work just to get compliant and sign our own guys......you see it here at the CZ every day....longtime posters scream about Dead Money and the need to sign TSmith- TFred- ZMartin etc etc

DAL could come out and trade Romo Day1, cut Free, Wilber, Hanna and Morris and restructure our top 5 contracts.........that would leave us 50m under the cap.... but now they have to spend it

No more claiming poor.............instead they do it piece by piece over the course of the whole Spring until all the expensive players are gone....... it may not be a bad strategy but it isn't honest

But like you said, too many sportswriters and too many Zoners are stuck in the old salary cap days
It was flat from 2009 to 2013 at 123m.....that means it didn't go up for 5 years....OUCH

Since 2013 it has gone up 45m+.........YES!!!!

It is rational for FO to be poor in the old environment.
It is not rational for them to claim poverty now.

They have net income before tax and interest of $300M with revenues of $700M.
They are so profitable it is not funny.
Furthermore, winning more generates more revenues.
Finally, they spend out the cap every year, so it is not as if they are skimping now.
It is the concept of borrowing from the future even more than may be the problem.
Plus the ego thing of winning by being smart rather than by brute force $.

 

[waldoputty]

Correction:
$60M cap space in 2018 with Romo gone.
$90M cap space in 2018 with Romo gone and restructure 5 contracts.

@bkight - did i get that right?
thanks

 

[Alexander]

not dictated.
Jerry feels pressure in achieving like most successful people do.
if you think the press calling them 'dogging it' would not bother him,...
Jerry is not the problem - it is Stephen here.
frugal savings is great when building the foundation, now we are talking about getting over the top and doing whatever it takes to get there.

So you would rather take the plunge and not set up the franchise to be playoff viable every season? Look at the Broncos. They are headed off a cliff just lIke the 49ers were headed down after a couple good years.

 

[waldoputty]

So you would rather take the plunge and not set up the franchise to be playoff viable every season? Look at the Broncos. They are headed off a cliff just lIke the 49ers were headed down after a couple good years.

Zeke has limited shelf-life and so Dez even more so.
You only need to tank for 1 year and cap resets.
We can get 4 good year, then tank.
Alternatively, if we draft well, we dont need to tank.
Same case if cap keeps rising after 2021.

But I definitely prefer being the prohibitive favorite for 4 years and suck for 1 year than being 1 of top 3 teams.
Broncos dont have Dak, Zeke our OL but they do have Miller and a very good D (though is Ray a good replacement for Ware?)

 

[rambo2]

So, just like magic the Cowboys are now under the cap with the restructuring of just 2 contracts.

 

[waldoputty]

So, just like magic the Cowboys are now under the cap with the restructuring of just 2 contracts.

Yes, anti-climatic.

 

[Hoofbite]

But the Patriots are Frugal so they never blow up the team
Think about how many more superbowls Brady would have won if the Pats tanked 1 year every 5 years to reload on 1 key high #1 pick (WR1, RB, dominant DL/OLB or shutdown corner)

Let's see, the Patriots are the gold standard.

Nobody has ever scheduled routine tanking seasons into their franchise model.

Lol, yep. Easily one of the dumbest thing I have ever read on this board.

 

[waldoputty]

Let's see, the Patriots are the gold standard.

Nobody has ever scheduled routine tanking seasons into their franchise model.

Lol, yep. Easily one of the dumbest thing I have ever read on this board.

May be you should try doing the math first before calling someone dumb.
The Patriots model worked great before 2014. With the new cap environment, one can do better.

 

[Hoofbite]

So, just like magic the Cowboys are now under the cap with the restructuring of just 2 contracts.

Being under the cap isn't challenging. Vast majority of teams don't even restructure to make it happen in any given year, and no other team restructures to make it happen every year.

Just to put things in perspective, in terms of free cap space the team went from #32 to #30. If they had freed up 3x the space (roughly $42M), they'd still only climb halfway up the rankings. They haven't even fully covered the cap space that is currently applied to the 2017 cap as a result of all the restructuring they have done since 2013. It really shouldn't even be newsworthy at this point.

 

[Hoofbite]

May be you should try doing the math first before calling someone dumb.
The Patriots model worked great before 2014. With the new cap environment, one can do better.

They just won the Super Bowl. Also won in 2015 so it seems to be working pretty damn well in the post-2014, "new cap environment".

 

[waldoputty]

They just won the Super Bowl. Also won in 2015 so it seems to be working pretty damn well in the post-2014, "new cap environment".

Yes, they would have lost to Atlanta if not for an epic choke.
They could well have won the last 5 superbowls if they used their leveraged their cap space for a few more decent players for Brady.

They are currently $60M below the cap - they certainly could have leverage that to keep some of the players they dumped or gotten a few more players etc.

Not that I am calling them stupid, they are very smart.
It is more arrogance more than anything else.
They are so smart they want to beat others with one hand tied behind their backs.

 

[Verdict]

The OP is off point. There really haven't been any impact free agents expected to hit free agency at desired positions so far. That could change but it's not expected.

The salary cap is real. We only have so much cap room to spend. It is being reserved for Martin and before too long Dak. Dak is only on a 3 year deal and one of those is gone already. Luckily we can tie up Zeke for 5 years.

I am all for tanking if we are going to miss the playoffs but that is WAY premature. Lol. I hope it is not anytime soon

 

[Hoofbite]

Yes, they would have lost to Atlanta if not for an epic choke.
They could well have won the last 5 superbowls if they used their leveraged their cap space for a few more decent players for Brady.

They are currently $60M below the cap - they certainly could have leverage that to keep some of the players they dumped or gotten a few more players etc.

Not that I am calling them stupid, they are very smart.
It is more arrogance more than anything else.
They are so smart they want to beat others with one hand tied behind their backs.

Or they could have lost any number of games along the way due to improbable plays. How can you make an argument that leveraging the cap is a great route when it hasn't even been established that cap spending produces championships? Let's start there.

Eagles go on a spending spree and everyone here says, "you can't buy championships". Couple years later the Giants invest excessively in the defense and people mock them for spending too much.

But, if Dallas borrows money from future years just to get cap compliant (not even to spend heavily, just to break even), it's a great idea. Furthermore, if Dallas borrows money from the future in a year with a week FA pool, that's genius!!!

It isn't coincidental that Dallas is better team after a couple years of not blowing their wad in FA and drafting better. That's how you build a team.

 

[BotchedLobotomy]

I am sitting in a room with 31 other guys, we all have millions of dollars to spend on the same widgets. I am feel pretty good about myself because I have 20 million dollars to spend, but I start looking at the bank rolls of the other 31 guys and I see that my 20 million dollars ranks almost last. Now it's time to start spending our money on these widgets. Low and behold, the nice widgets are all being bought by these guys that have alot more money to spend on widgets than me. A widget that normally costs me 1 million dollars is now being bought for 2 million dollars because there is so much money in the room. All of a sudden I don't feel as good about my 20 million as I did before and I have to start buy scratched and dented widgets.

I have to admit, this is not my best work.

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

I am sitting in a room with 31 other guys, we all have millions of dollars to spend on the same widgets. I am feel pretty good about myself because I have 20 million dollars to spend, but I start looking at the bank rolls of the other 31 guys and I see that my 20 million dollars ranks almost last. Now it's time to start spending our money on these widgets. Low and behold, the nice widgets are all being bought by these guys that have alot more money to spend on widgets than me. A widget that normally costs me 1 million dollars is now being bought for 2 million dollars because there is so much money in the room. All of a sudden I don't feel as good about my 20 million as I did before and I have to start buy scratched and dented widgets.

I have to admit, this is not my best work.

As a guy who has more than a passing interest in economics I think this is pretty apt.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Well would you have pay top dollar for the 3 Giants FA last year?
Would you now?

New York vs Dallas rankings in defensive categories.

Total yards given up

New York 10th
Dallas 14th

Points

New York 2nd
Dallas 5th

Rushing Yards

Dallas 1st
New York tied at 3rd

Passing Yards

New York 23rd
Dallas 26th

Sacks

Dallas 13th
New York 14th

Yes Dallas had ONE more sack than New York

INT

New York tied at 4th
Dallas Tied at 27th

One of the only stats where the Giants were better by a decent margin...8

FF

Dallas Tied at 3rd
New York Tied at 13

Recovered Fumbles

Dallas 8th
New York tied at 19

=====================================================

Final record

Dallas 13-3
New York 11-5

=====================================================


Our Defense with no namers on it vs oveer $200 million spent in one offseason for NY...yet not much difference really.
I would say that the amount of money NY spent on Defense did not do them much better than Dallas.

 

[yimyammer]

As a guy who has more than a passing interest in economics I think this is pretty apt.

I'd like to hear your opinion/perspective on the national debt that seems to go unnoticed by most, please pm me if you have any thoughts you'd like to share

~sorry for the tangent everyone~

 

[yimyammer]

Dak is only on a 3 year deal and one of those is gone already.

Friendly FYI:

Dak Prescott signed a 4 year, $2,723,393 contract with the Dallas Cowboys, including a $383,393 signing bonus, $383,393 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $680,848. In 2017, Prescott will earn a base salary of $540,000. Prescott has a cap hit of $635,848 while his dead money value is $287,545.

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

New York vs Dallas rankings in defensive categories.

Total yards given up

New York 10th
Dallas 14th

Points

New York 2nd
Dallas 5th

Rushing Yards

Dallas 1st
New York tied at 3rd

Passing Yards

New York 23rd
Dallas 26th

Sacks

Dallas 13th
New York 14th

Yes Dallas had ONE more sack than New York

INT

New York tied at 4th
Dallas Tied at 27th

One of the only stats where the Giants were better by a decent margin...8

FF

Dallas Tied at 3rd
New York Tied at 13

Recovered Fumbles

Dallas 8th
New York tied at 19

=====================================================

Final record

Dallas 13-3
New York 11-5

=====================================================


Our Defense with no namers on it vs oveer $200 million spent in one offseason for NY...yet not much difference really.
I would say that the amount of money NY spent on Defense did not do them much better than Dallas.

I think we're probably on the same page with this overall, but I did want to point out that the Giants did show improvement from 2015 to 2016 so that has to be factored in. For instance, they were last in 2015 in total yards per game, this year they were 10th. They were 30th in points allowed in 2015 and second in 2016. If you could guarantee that type of improvement came from that type of spending then I'd be in favor of Dallas going the same route - it means the Cowboys would have the best defense in the league by yards and points allowed.

But the Giants' success has been mostly an anomaly when it comes to spending in the free agency era. That's my biggest issue. If they could land a Janoris Jenkins clone and an Olivier Vernon clone then I'd be all for it. I don't think there will be a player of either caliber available when you factor in franchise tags and re-signings before March 9. And if there are, you can bet Dallas won't be the only team lining up for their services.

 

[waldoputty]

The OP is off point. There really haven't been any impact free agents expected to hit free agency at desired positions so far. That could change but it's not expected.

The salary cap is real. We only have so much cap room to spend. It is being reserved for Martin and before too long Dak. Dak is only on a 3 year deal and one of those is gone already. Luckily we can tie up Zeke for 5 years.

I am all for tanking if we are going to miss the playoffs but that is WAY premature. Lol. I hope it is not anytime soon

salary cap is real, but not so real if you have $60-90M to spend.
we have been conditioned by the salary cap from before 2014.
the current salary cap is drastically different for us because 1) $10M/year annual rise for next 4 years or so and 2) Romo salary most likely being gone.

the 3-year deal is even more phantom than the salary cap for us - he has a 4 year deal.
tanking is what would happen naturally if we spend a lot and the draft picks we make do not pan out.
tanking would happen naturally as we do not have the money to replace dez and other aging players with premium FAs.
i am basically saying the worst case scenario is good because we get a premium pick.
so if draft from 2017-2019 are all like 2016 (go forbid!), then there is no need to tank.