The "Right Kind of Guy" (quotes from Bill Belichick)

Nation

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tm1119;5082332 said:
Seems like Belichick is just saying the right thing to the media to me. Either that or his idea of "RKG" and ours are extremely different. How many bad character guys have they taken a chance on in the past 5 years or so? Moss, Haynesworth, Denard Robinson, Aquib Talib, ect. I know there are a bunch more, especially late round picks, just can't think of them right now. Patriots seem to be all about acquiring as much talent as possible and letting their vet leadership handle the problem guys. Something I wish we were able to do.

I think there is a difference between building a culture with bad character guys as a part of your roster versus what New England has done, which is establish a good culture first. From there is when you can take your chances on low-rish high-reward bad character types. We are just starting the third offseason with Garrett as our head coach, so the culture is still being established.
 

CowboyRoy

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slomoxn;5081905 said:
I have to agree 100%, I can't speak to the rest of Garrett's abilities but he clearly has a vision of how he wants to build this team and that is why I continue to support him. If it takes a few years to get himself from under the mess Jerry has created I say give him the time but I don't think he'll get it but hopefully he builds this team well enough to win one for himself or whoever Jerry replaces him with.

This is coach speak like every other coach. What matters are the results. The results under Garrett have been poor.
 

Idgit

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CowboyRoy;5082375 said:
This is coach speak like every other coach. What matters are the results. The results under Garrett have been poor.

Early results under Garrett haven't been all that poor. And, even if they were, there are plenty good coaches who actually did have poor results before they had good or great ones, so that pretty much disputes the idea that the only thing that matters are the immediate results.
 

Idgit

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visionary;5082423 said:
:laugh2:
And the pathetic excuse-making goes on

He's 21-19 overall. If you don't think that qualifies as 'not all that poor' and instead justifies an insulting 'pathetic excuse making' commentary, then that's on you.
 

5Stars

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Idgit;5082425 said:
He's 21-19 overall. If you don't think that qualifies as 'not all that poor' and instead justifies an insulting 'pathetic excuse making' commentary, then that's on you.

:laugh2:

Bro! That's his M.O. It's that 20-20 vision of his!
 

Eskimo

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Hoofbite;5082328 said:
Belichick has taken on players Dallas wouldn't in the last few years.

RKG for Belichick is someone who will get with the program first and foremost. He'll take on a guy like Haynesworth or even Ocho at lost cost because he has nothing to lose if they fail and everything to gain if they succeed. He is the authority on that team and what he says goes. Wouldn't surprise me if they overlook character flaws so long as a player will fall in-step.

RKG for Garrett seems to be a guy that Garrett knows he won't have to worry about. Likely because any sort of turmoil will be mediated by Uncle Jerry. Garrett doesn't have the skins on the wall or the ultimate authority to make the threat of reprimand stick.

To me they are only similar in name.

RKG for Bill is a guy who doesn't cause trouble because that player knows not to cross the guy.

RKG for Jason is a guy he knows won't cause trouble because trouble gets sent to Jerry and will likely undermine Jason's position.

Down the road (provided Jason is successful) Jason could probably be in a position where guys know not to cross him. If he turns the team around and gets the clout to be able to flex his muscle on people, I could see him going for higher character risk guys right now. Until then, he's likely not really wanting to deal with it because it has the potential to allow Jerry to get too involved.


I think you're wrong about what RKG is to Garrett. It is not simply a player who is not going to cause him any trouble. I think it is a far more nuanced notion of a player who is

1. intelligent
2. works hard off the field physically in training
3. works hard cognitively with the coaches and in film study
4. has a good team first attitude
5. plays with hustle to and a bit through the whistle
6. plays physically
7. plays with confidence
8. has a high football IQ with good instincts

I do think the changes he instituted has started to turn this team around. I think this team was in gradual decline from its peak in 2007 to its trough in the middle of the 2010 season with a 1-7 record. He inherited a team where most of its best players were already past their peaks so people over-estimated the talent he had (Bigg, Gurode, Barber, RW11, Colombo, TNew, Rat) and the young players on the roster were just not developing into quality starters worth keeping (Felix, Mike Jenkins, MartyB, Free). So you combine a bunch of vets declining and a 4 consecutive poor drafts from 2006-9 and you have a veteran laden team that is declining and without any youth waiting in the wings to pick things up.

Right now the only guys who were starters when Wade was here and are projected as starters next year are:

Romo
Witten
Miles Austin
Demarcus Ware
Anythony Spencer
Jay Ratliff

That's it - 2.5 years later and only 6 starters are left on the team and 3 more may be gone next season possibly leaving only Romo, Witten and Ware. Jerry doesn't like to talk about rebuilding but that kind of roster change is rebuilding basically. But Garrett managed to rebuild while having to deal with multiple bad contracts handed out by his incompetent GM and GM's son, lots of dead cap space, only one top 10 choice which was a #9 pick (we had to trade up and give up a second rounder for Mo), no extra draft picks that were generated by selling off players from the old regime and 4 poor drafts leaving very little ascending core players to develop (this is where Jim Harbaugh's situation was different - the 49ers were drafting well for years before he got there so there was a ton of young and ascending talent already there). I think it is very impressive what he managed to do with so little in the way of resources to get the job done and while being forced to always focus on the short-term with Jerry wanting to go to the SB every year despite how unrealistic that may be.

I think Garrett has done a good job turning the roster around. I think only the injuries on the defense and Center, generally very poor season from guys along the OL and Romo throwing too many interceptions last year kept us out of the playoffs. Right now I do expect us to be a much improved team and the moves made over the last 2.5 years under Garrett are about to pay dividends.
 

visionary

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Idgit;5082425 said:
He's 21-19 overall. If you don't think that qualifies as 'not all that poor' and instead justifies an insulting 'pathetic excuse making' commentary, then that's on you.

I love it how Garrett lovers will use whatever time frame suits their agenda

He is 16-16 as HC

Definition of mediocrity

Maybe that is a commentary on you
 

Nation

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visionary;5082492 said:
I love it how Garrett lovers will use whatever time frame suits their agenda

He is 16-16 as HC

Definition of mediocrity

Maybe that is a commentary on you

His head coaching tenure is not exactly a cherry-picked time frame
 

khiladi

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Nation;5081822 said:
Given the Saban/Garrett relationship and the Belichick/Saban relationship, the below quote from Belichick is in my eyes the best summary to date as far as what Garrett and the Cowboys are trying to accomplish.

Bill Bellichek as an example of integrity and the right type of:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: guy?
 

Idgit

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visionary;5082492 said:
I love it how Garrett lovers will use whatever time frame suits their agenda

He is 16-16 as HC...

Yeah. You're wrong about this, too.
 

khiladi

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visionary;5082492 said:
I love it how Garrett lovers will use whatever time frame suits their agenda

He is 16-16 as HC

Definition of mediocrity

Maybe that is a commentary on you

Wade's record was much better... I guess that's a reflective of going from a better coach to a worse coach. So JG turned a team that won the division and an actual game in the play-offs, to one that has yet to make the play-offs and struggles to reach .500 every season.
 

Nation

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khiladi;5082531 said:
Bill Bellichek as an example of integrity and the right type of:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: guy?

He's an example of building out a team and organization
 

Idgit

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khiladi;5082534 said:
Wade's record was much better... I guess that's a reflective of going from a better coach to a worse coach. So JG turned a team that won the division and an actual game in the play-offs, to one that has yet to make the play-offs and struggles to reach .500 every season.

Oops. Somebody's trying to skip over a fairly significant trend.
 

Floatyworm

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SWG9;5082086 said:
Everybody has a plan. It's the NFL, no one is completely clueless. Campo had a plan, Gailey had a plan, and Phillips had a plan too.

The real question is whether or not Garrett will get enough time to see his plan through.


Let's get something straight.....

there has always been one plan...and one plan only.....

It's Jerry's plan.

1. Insert sock puppet coach......

2. Promote "America's Team"

3. Make money

4. Miss playoffs

5. Convince fans things will be different next year......

6. Repeat steps 1-5:banghead:
 

lane

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Floaty;5082552 said:
Let's get something straight.....

there has always been one plan...and one plan only.....

It's Jerry's plan.

1. Insert sock puppet coach......

2. Promote "America's Team"

3. Make money

4. Miss playoffs

5. Convince fans things will be different next year......

6. Repeat steps 1-5:banghead:

It really is looking that way.

The lack of addressing year after year the most important team needs in the draft.

The huge contract extensions to mediocre players year after year.
 

visionary

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Nation;5082496 said:
His head coaching tenure is not exactly a cherry-picked time frame

Garrett was named HC after the 2010 season
That is 32 games by my count
16-16 is .500. Mediocre/average

Garrett lovers like to in luxe bus games as interim HC in 2010 season but it is well known that happened because Jerry read the players the riot act

You can bet your bottom dollar these homers would not be counting those games if we had a losing record in those games

Garrett record as HC is 16-16
He has been HC for 2 years
 

visionary

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Idgit;5082550 said:
Oops. Somebody's trying to skip over a fairly significant trend.

Ooops. Somebody's excuse making is being exposed
 

CF74

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khiladi;5082534 said:
Wade's record was much better... I guess that's a reflective of going from a better coach to a worse coach. So JG turned a team that won the division and an actual game in the play-offs, to one that has yet to make the play-offs and struggles to reach .500 every season.

The interesting part of that transition is that not one single O-lineman from Wades tenure is on the team anymore...

O-line-Injuries-Turnovers (All connected)

When you put it all together it seems to be the constant detractor from our success..

The previous "Great" O-line all but fizzled out in the final playoff game vs the Vikings. They were manhandled by the Vikings D-line and all but annihilated Romo that day, it was awful. Towards the end, a lot of them were trying to play thru injuries and then went on to have offseason surgeries, but they were hardly the same from then on.

I recall Garrett saying we were in a rebuilding mode and since then we have replaced everybody on the O-line, only to be plagued with multiple injuries once again.. You can't make this stuff up but hopefully one day soon it will make for a story of tremendous perseverance, a story of overcoming great obstacles, and future success...

Switching coaches or coaching philosophies over and over is not going to make this story end positively, but sticking to the plan increases our odds.. I used to think Garrett was the problem until I discovered how many players were trying to perform with injuries.. It's part of the game and many teams overcome it, but it's rare when it's almost an entire O-line that keeps going down. In fact I've never heard of it happening before..

Somethings gotta give and I believe we are due for a run of good health. We are on the right track, heck we've invested two top picks on the o-line and if one of the other young guys can step up we will be that much better...

I can see this team going 11-5 if we have average to slightly above average production from this O-line but Romo is going to also have to step up his game and reduce his turnovers. Still I believe Romo goes as this O-line goes and hopefully that is up up up...:starspin
 

RoyTheHammer

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So Garrett is one game over .500 so far as HC and his teams have continued to show the same inconsistent play as they did under Wade when we all blamed "camp cupcake" as being the problem.

Yet some continue to defend the mediocrity..
 
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