The "Right Kind of Guy" (quotes from Bill Belichick)

[hra8700]

Lol no idea why I typed Denard Robinson. I meant Alfonzo Dennard. Got arrested before the draft and the Patriots scooped him up in the 7th and he was a contributer right away for them.

What does getting arrested have to do with what bellicheck is talking about? He didnt say hes looking for upstanding citizens, hes looking for kids who really love football and thus will practice and play harder and longer since the work isnt work for them.

 

[Doomsay]

I said the same thing when Garrett was hired: for whatever reason, Jerry seems willing to defer to Garrett a little.

Not sure if I still feel that way after the last offseason.

Agreed. I personally don't think that Garrett has enough experience to be a HC (or OC previously) but he should be given the latitude to make his own football decisions and that charade was definitely exposed this off-season. Football by committee has never worked as far as I know, but Jerry likes it that way IMO, because nobody under him can acquire too much power.

 

[DBOY3141]

Agreed. I personally don't think that Garrett has enough experience to be a HC (or OC previously) but he should be given the latitude to make his own football decisions and that charade was definitely exposed this off-season. Football by committee has never worked as far as I know, but Jerry likes it that way IMO, because nobody under him can acquire too much power.

It's not about power, he owns the team, no one will ever have more power than him.

It's about Ego, same as when Jimmy was here. Jerry wants to succeed and let everyone know it was all about him and him alone. He's already stated that he would have fired a GM with a similiar record to his own, that speaks entirely to how big his ego is.

I think Garrett is a fine HC, who makes mistakes but is learning. I don't think he will ever succeed as long as JJ is the GM, I don't think any HC will.

 

[Idgit]

Agreed. I personally don't think that Garrett has enough experience to be a HC (or OC previously) but he should be given the latitude to make his own football decisions and that charade was definitely exposed this off-season. Football by committee has never worked as far as I know, but Jerry likes it that way IMO, because nobody under him can acquire too much power.

I didn't like the way the first round went down, one bit. But I also think it's probably not all that uncommon an occurrence for an owner or a GM to override a coach when it comes to a draft pick.

It looks really bad, and it's not consistent, but with the money and the egos involved, and, in a lot of cases, with both the coach and the GM's jobs on the line, there's always going to be room for disagreement.

 

[xwalker]

I'm no longer complaining about not taking Floyd with the 31st pick but my issue is and was that IF Garrett had been able to do what he wanted Floyd would have been the pick

GMs always have the final say in the draft, not just Owner/GMs.

 

[visionary]

GMs always have the final say in the draft, not just Owner/GMs.

it is more than that though

in most organizations, the GM is a footbal person who has come up through the ranks, has a track record as a successful talent evaluator, and deserves the right to be GM based on his accomplishments in evaluating football talent

when such a person has final say and over-rules the scouts, reasonable people can accept that

in this organization, the person doing the over-ruling has no such credentials and the most rosy defense even his most rabid fans/defenders can put forth is that he is not that involved in personnel decisions and is just the tie-breaker

when that person has final say and over-rules the scouts, that is indefensible

this, coupled with the results of the last 17 years of this mechanism in action, proving it does not work are what cause fans to be concerned

 

[DFWJC]

it is more than that though

in most organizations, the GM is a footbal person who has come up through the ranks, has a track record as a successful talent evaluator, and deserves the right to be GM based on his accomplishments in evaluating football talent

when such a person has final say and over-rules the scouts, reasonable people can accept that

in this organization, the person doing the over-ruling has no such credentials and the most rosy defense even his most rabid fans/defenders can put forth is that he is not that involved in personnel decisions and is just the tie-breaker

when that person has final say and over-rules the scouts, that is indefensible

this, coupled with the results of the last 17 years of this mechanism in action, proving it does not work are what cause fans to be concerned

I've never been a Jerry GM supporter, but by now he has more experience at that job than most GMs out there.
And even before the 24 years of GM experience that he has gained, he had more actual football experience than most current GMs. The guy was actually a very good player at one time.

Of course, all of that experience does not make someone a good GM.

As always, I say ideally Jerry owner should not have Jerry as his GM.

 

[xwalker]

it is more than that though

in most organizations, the GM is a footbal person who has come up through the ranks, has a track record as a successful talent evaluator, and deserves the right to be GM based on his accomplishments in evaluating football talent

when such a person has final say and over-rules the scouts, reasonable people can accept that

in this organization, the person doing the over-ruling has no such credentials and the most rosy defense even his most rabid fans/defenders can put forth is that he is not that involved in personnel decisions and is just the tie-breaker

when that person has final say and over-rules the scouts, that is indefensible

this, coupled with the results of the last 17 years of this mechanism in action, proving it does not work are what cause fans to be concerned

How many GMs or scouts are more qualified than the combination of Kiffin and Marinelli to evaluate a DLineman?

In regards to Floyd, Jerry chose the opinions of Kiffin/Marinelli over the opinions of some scouts and the offensive-coordinator turned Head Coach. Would any GM really draft a DLineman if Kiffin/Marinelli told them not to do it?

 

[DBOY3141]

Jerry is an average at best GM. If he were the worst, the Cowboys would be the Jags, Browns, Raiders, Bills etc. of the world. This team could do a lot better but also could do a lot worse.

I'm not a fan of JJ and feel that after 17 years, it should be time for a change, but that is never going to happen, so either stay and cheer or move on, life is too short.

 

[CF74]

Much ado about nothing. When its all said and done Travis + Williams is 10X > than Floyd (Mr 3 measly sacks in college.)

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Meh. Belichek. What does he know?

He knows that he is 3-0 in SB while cheating.

He knows that he is 0-2 in SB after he was caught cheating.

FACT!

When Belichick speaks, I try to listen. I always respect and listen to winners.

Winner of SB's by 3 points each time. Like it or not, admit it or not, cheating just a little bit could be the reason why he won by just a little bit (3 pts) each SB.

 

[Miller]

He knows that he is 3-0 in SB while cheating.

He knows that he is 0-2 in SB after he was caught cheating.

FACT!





Winner of SB's by 3 points each time. Like it or not, admit it or not, cheating just a little bit could be the reason why he won by just a little bit (3 pts) each SB.

Really strange that a guys been to 5 SBs, has won 3 and even with people throwing out the wildly accusatory.."lost 2 after cheating"..it still means that they got back to 2 SBs. How does that not register with people? And in those he was 2 incredible catches away from winning them. How does that deal with cheating?

 

[Nation]

He knows that he is 3-0 in SB while cheating.

He knows that he is 0-2 in SB after he was caught cheating.

FACT!

Winner of SB's by 3 points each time. Like it or not, admit it or not, cheating just a little bit could be the reason why he won by just a little bit (3 pts) each SB.

Since Spygate, where the Patriots were accused of taping teams defensive signals to help out their offense:

• The Patriots have a record of 80-24 (regular season and playoffs), best in the NFL by about 20 games.
• They have won five division titles in six years
• Three AFC title game appearances
• Two trips to the Super Bowl.
• Seventeen teams in NFL history have scored more than 500 points in a season and four of those seasons have come from the Patriots since 2007.

I think I'd blame their defense falling apart before I'd blame them not being able to "steal" another teams defensive signals.

 

[CATCH17]

I cringe when fans give the Patriots credit for their success because of spygate. Kinda embarrassing for the poster and the reader.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Really strange that a guys been to 5 SBs, has won 3 and even with people throwing out the wildly accusatory.."lost 2 after cheating"..it still means that they got back to 2 SBs. How does that not register with people? And in those he was 2 incredible catches away from winning them. How does that deal with cheating?

Since Spygate, where the Patriots were accused of taping teams defensive signals to help out their offense:

• The Patriots have a record of 80-24 (regular season and playoffs), best in the NFL by about 20 games.
• They have won five division titles in six years
• Three AFC title game appearances
• Two trips to the Super Bowl.
• Seventeen teams in NFL history have scored more than 500 points in a season and four of those seasons have come from the Patriots since 2007.

I think I'd blame their defense falling apart before I'd blame them not being able to "steal" another teams defensive signals.

Probably STILL cheating. Just being smarter, more "stealth" about it ;-)

 

[Doomsay]

It looks really bad, and it's not consistent, but with the money and the egos involved, and, in a lot of cases, with both the coach and the GM's jobs on the line, there's always going to be room for disagreement.

Yes I agree, although there is a little asymmetry in the Valley Ranch example, because our GM can only fire himself rhetorically.

 

[khiladi]

He's an example of building out a team and organization

No, he's an example of a straight cheater, that is what he is. He's the exact opposite of class and right kind of guy. Further, hen Wilfork is taking out people's knees, I hardly call that 'right kind of guy' and Harrison is shooting HGH on a regular basis, I hardly call that right kind of guys.

And before anyone claims it was a matter of stealing signals, please spare me. Nobody knows the extent of their cheating ways, because the NFL burned the evidence. When it comes to their 'home-field' advantage, the implications of Spy-gate are even more real. On the other hand, the NFL had no problems suspending the Saints based upon such flimsy evidence.

 

[khiladi]

The interesting part of that transition is that not one single O-lineman from Wades tenure is on the team anymore...

O-line-Injuries-Turnovers (All connected)

When you put it all together it seems to be the constant detractor from our success..

The previous "Great" O-line all but fizzled out in the final playoff game vs the Vikings. They were manhandled by the Vikings D-line and all but annihilated Romo that day, it was awful. Towards the end, a lot of them were trying to play thru injuries and then went on to have offseason surgeries, but they were hardly the same from then on.

I recall Garrett saying we were in a rebuilding mode and since then we have replaced everybody on the O-line, only to be plagued with multiple injuries once again.. You can't make this stuff up but hopefully one day soon it will make for a story of tremendous perseverance, a story of overcoming great obstacles, and future success...

Switching coaches or coaching philosophies over and over is not going to make this story end positively, but sticking to the plan increases our odds.. I used to think Garrett was the problem until I discovered how many players were trying to perform with injuries.. It's part of the game and many teams overcome it, but it's rare when it's almost an entire O-line that keeps going down. In fact I've never heard of it happening before..

Somethings gotta give and I believe we are due for a run of good health. We are on the right track, heck we've invested two top picks on the o-line and if one of the other young guys can step up we will be that much better...

I can see this team going 11-5 if we have average to slightly above average production from this O-line but Romo is going to also have to step up his game and reduce his turnovers. Still I believe Romo goes as this O-line goes and hopefully that is up up up...:starspin

So who was in charge of the offense at that time? Did Wade want Solari or Houck as OL coach? Did Wade want Felix Jones and Roy Williams? Jason Garrett inherited an already explosive offense. He didn't build anything from ground up and he actually made it worse. When Wade wanted Dan Reeves to baby-sit JG, was Dan Reeves hired?

We went to the play-offs and won an actual play-off game with Wade and Wade had one bad season, where the inevitable was going to happen because JG's pathetic offense couldn't stay on the field with any time-consuming drives. They were abominable in the 2nd and 3rd quarters in particular, with their consistent one and two and outs.

This pathetic play-calling is precisely why JJ said it as soon as the season was over, that Romo was the key and changes are going to be made with utilizing his skills. Then JJ went into spin mode to make it seem like JG wasn't stripped of play-calling duties and JG has been telling us, he's never had a problem with 'delegating' that roll. Now, Romo has essentially been made a part-time offensive coach. It's why JJ over-ruled JG and went with Frederik.

It's funny.. Many of the JG homers don't even realize that players like Sean Lee and Lissemore were drafted by Wade.... If you look at the offensive picks during that tenure, when Wade probably had little input, the picks were atrocious.

 

[khiladi]

The only sure fire OL pick that is still a keeper when JG has been in control of the offense is Smith and that was a no brainer and that was because Dallas was a top 10 draft pick, which Wade never even had. This Frederik pick wasn't even JG, it was JJ. JG, it is clear, wanted Ffloyd, a 3-4 tackle, when this team was going 4-3 And Marinelli and Kiffin both said Floyd would be a wasted pick.

 

[tm1119]

What does getting arrested have to do with what bellicheck is talking about? He didnt say hes looking for upstanding citizens, hes looking for kids who really love football and thus will practice and play harder and longer since the work isnt work for them.

My original point was that is the difference between what seems to be our RKG and Belichick's. We don't take chances on guys like that. Garrett seems to avoid the bad boys and I feel it really hurts the talent level of guys we look to acquire. The amount of guys that reportedly "off of the board" pre draft gets pretty outrageous. Who knows how much of it is true, but if true a lot of really good talent gets eliminated.