The Real Question For Me is Long Term/Short Term

jnday

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I like the short term view. I'd rather be like Denver, win a Super Bowl then worry about the team afterwards.

I had rather build a team that can compete every year than I had go 25 years between Super Bowls. It takes longer , but the rewards are much greater. The short term " one player away" line of thinking is like trying to find the end of a rainbow.
 

btcutter

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Of Bosa's 70 pressures last year, 63 were blocked meaning that he worked for every stat he got. His signature trait is his power. Frankly, he is the anti-Carpenter. He went to the same school and shares similar demographics and that is about it.

It comes down to opportunity cost to me. We will likely not see the top DE nor QB in the draft for some time. Carpe Diem.

I am still in the QB camp. It's much easier (relatively) to find a DE then a franchise QB. There are always DE lower in the draft that makes impacts but rarely a QB. If given the chance we should be taking QB and plan for him to start in year #3. It's unlikely we will be drafting in the top 5 in the near future even if we do suck and the future classes of QB are pretty abysmal so unless you are sitting at #1 or 2 you'll need to give up the farm for a chance at landing a QB.

We need to think long term than just next year. Romo's window maybe closing but we need to keep the Cowboy's window open.
 

DandyDon52

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The real key here is how good they feel the QBs available at 4 will be. You don't take a QB high just because you are picking high and it's an opportunity. The player has to be worth it. Sadly, no one can really tell, but the last thing I want us to do is just pick the next Alex Smith because we just have to take a QB. Everyone knew SF wasn't thrilled about Smith, but they couldn't trade the pick and just crossed their fingers. That was a big time waste. So much of what I've heard it that this class is relatively weak at the top.

If we end up with Bosa and he's very good but not all pro great, he will still make a positive impact. If we picka QB and he just average (which seems to be a common opinion of these QBs) then its a big waste.

If truly believe that we can get an actual franchise QB and not another Smith, or Bradford or Stafford or Boller, then fine. Take him. But don't just take a QB so we can say we took one.

I have to agree with this.
Jerry said they wont be taking any players with issues, I think gregory made a impact on that, and they want a RKG and playmaker
at 4, if they dont trade down.
I think elliot may be the best player/pick at his position, so take him.
 

DandyDon52

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From my original post.

Ramsey would be a difficult decision for me because I believe he may be Darren Woodson for the next twelve years. Or better. He would be worth passing on a QB, but that is a toss up for me.

yes but will he be there at 4, 3 teams pick ahead of us, so 3 players will be taken, when our turn comes, and most say ramsey
will be taken @ 1-3 also 1 of the 3 QB may be taken, and will it be the one we liked?
At that point who is the best player left, I think it is Elliot, and it would be paypack to philly who really wants Elliot, since they took
Murray from us, I SAY we keep them from getting Elliot !!
 

Echo9

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I would bet the team that drafted would prefer to have him now than what they have!

It possible, but with the numbskull of a coach they have, I wouldn't be so sure. ;)

But my real reason for relating so often to Alex Smith is the fact that this year's chatter about QB's reminds me of when Alex Smith was taken. There was this overall "meh" attitude and it seemed that SF even knew that going in. They couldn't move out of the pick and felt obligated to take a QB. In the end it hurt their team for a long while.

Think of the time it has taken for Smith to grow into a serviceable starter. Could you imagine living through that here in Dallas?

Overall, I don't think I've ever been more confused as to who the pick should be this year. It feels like a terrible year to be picking top 5, but it is what it is. In all honesty, I think I'd be ok with us moving back 4-6 spots and grabbing a 2nd rounder out of it. I tihnk that's what would help our team the most.

But whoever the pick is (even a QB), I don't think I'd be overly upset. Each pick has potential, 2016 is just one messed up top of the draft.
 

LocimusPrime

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Show me a Von Miller in this draft and I might agree.

I understand where you are coming from but there are other defensive players they could take at different positions to make this current D better and closer to what denver has. Linebackers,DTs, safeties and corners maybe. Im thinking a 2-3 year max process.
 

TwoDeep3

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Which is my point exactly..... Why is the QB pick labeled as a savior pick?

Of all the top teams vying for a chance at plauing in the Super Bowl, what position is normally their best player?

Which position other than center touches the ball more than any other?

Which position is the central figure in the passing game?

What is the mist important position on the field?

Which position on the field affected the overall outcome of 2015?

My contention is not about 2016 as much as it is about 2025 and in between those years.
 

NEODOG

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Of all the top teams vying for a chance at plauing in the Super Bowl, what position is normally their best player?

Which position other than center touches the ball more than any other?

Which position is the central figure in the passing game?

What is the mist important position on the field?

Which position on the field affected the overall outcome of 2015?

My contention is not about 2016 as much as it is about 2025 and in between those years.

Defenses wins superbowls, offenses don't lose them..... A QB that doesn't turn the ball over is all you need
 

CyberB0b

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I think it is asinine to assume Bosa is maxed out and will always be what he was in college. He still has a lot of room for growth. Is he a Von Miller type? Obviously not, but he could mature to be a great player. I don't think he is worthy of our pick though. I don't think any of these QBs warrant a #4 pick. I think this is just a weak draft class at the top. Go with BPA and see what you get. Drafting for need isn't exactly a formula for success.
 

odog422

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After reading Sturm's article a few weeks back, it became clear this #4 pick has implications which will affect more than just the team we see on the field come September.

What does the next decade look like? What does this team do after Romo?

Some will profess Tony has years left. But if Staubach and Aikman, and Pearson and Irvin taught us anything, a collision sport causes people to retire unexpectedly, and abruptly.

Granted Drew did so after a car wreck and Michael after finding out about a condition he had all along. But the fact remains, as a player gets older and begins taking stock of his life, sometimes health post-NFL becomes more of a priority. Especially with two children and a wife who would like to have a healthy husband post football.

Now factor in a great deal of wealth and the real possibility of ESPN or the NFL channel making him a talking head for several million a year, and you can see how that ring might lose its appeal over a future without injuries.

They say Staubach was the most competitive player anyone ever saw. Yet he walked from the game for this exact reason. Aikman as well.

So here is the dilemma. This team has youth in significant places. An offensive line which are babies compared to the league. A WR who is top five.

The defense surely needs a pass rusher and perhaps a good safety, corner, and a linebacker.

Yet after the first pick, some of those positions still could be filled. If not all.

So which is it?

Short term, trying to put a winner on the field in the next two years with a defensive pick?

Or thinking long term and picking a franchise leader on offense, and have him mature behind a guy we all think is one of the best?

I am now, and have always been about play makers. Teams are built around your play makers.

Bosa feels like a more talented Bobby Carpenter to me. I could and have been wrong many times in the past. I'm just not feeling it about him.

Ramsey would be a difficult decision for me because I believe he may be Darren Woodson for the next twelve years. Or better. He would be worth passing on a QB, but that is a toss up for me.

Zeke is a running back. And since the majority of people here have told me you can get a running back at any 7-11 in the metroplex, that is out for this high of a pick.

Quarterback interests me a great deal. Short term won't shore up all the weaknesses, and i'm not certain I am behind spending a premium pick on a defender that isn't the difference between losing to the Packers in 2014 or beating them then going to the dance.

A difference maker for years to come, and contracts to come is where my heart lies.

What will this team look like in 2018? Because I do not think Romo will be playing for them then.

Just my opinion.

What is yours?

QB all the way. I'm an OSU man and fan and have watched all their games every year. So I've watched Bosa more than just this year. He's good. He's not a game changer IMO. I don't recall teams trying to "scheme" or account for him specifically routinely. Or him really "taking over" games because he was just so unstoppable. He's good, benefitting from playing in a major program and receiving national exposure. He's also had very good tackles playing next to him for the most part. Even his backup comes in and gets sacks. Just listening to the announcers during games tells you, or rather tells me, how often its quite similar to when listening to announcers do Cowboys games - repeat group think rather than give real insight or have actual knowledge on the playing history and skills of the player. Again, he could come in and become an All Pro on this level, as it's just my opinion. But to me it really goes to what I believe is your point - long term or short. If the former, which it should be IMO, which position is more important if you are looking at the long term success of this franchise?

QB all day. The fact that Bosa is good rather than great should just make the decision easier.

Finally, I'm one who believed the season was over when Romo went down the first time. Further, unless we seriously get back to the ball control lower pass attempt offense of 2014, I don't see Romo lasting the season. He may play 2 more years but I really believe his 16 game seasons are done. When you are off for weeks like last year and the back is still not right a year after surgery, it's not "if" it's "when" will he go down. I don't have to look past the Star and two examples immediately come to mind - LaFluer, Aikman. In fact, I can't think of any NFL player who had major back issues and continued to play complete seasons at a high level. I honestly don't know anyone who has had back surgery and never ended up with ongoing issues, let alone an NFL QB who will receive a few direct hits to the back every year (think we can all agree Romo routinely gets extra shots with no penalties - call it bias etc. but its true).

Wentz at 4 please.
 

TwoDeep3

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Defenses wins superbowls, offenses don't lose them..... A QB that doesn't turn the ball over is all you need

Sorry, I don't buy into that as a cast in stone rule for a team.

No offense, no play-offs.

Or did you think last season all the teams Dallas played were Super Bowl bound with their stellar defenses?

Oh yeah, Romo was out.
 

LocimusPrime

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It would be nice if we could follow Denver's model in building an elite defense. An elite defense coupled with our offense would be a powerful combo.
Heres what Denver did.

2011 Draft: Von Miler
Free Agents: Chris Harris Jr
2012 Draft: Derek Wolf, Omar Bolden, Malik Jackson
Free Agents:
2013 Draft: Sylvester Williams
Free Agents: Lerentee McCray, Brandon Marshall
2014 Draft: BradleyRoby, Corey Nelson
Free Agents: Kenny Anumikae, Shaq Barrett, Todd Davis, Aqib Talib, TJ Ward, Demarcus Wae
2015 Draft: ShaneRay, Lorenzo Doss, Darius Kilo
Free Agemts: Josh Bush, Shilo Keo, Tauren Nixon, Antonio Smith, Darian Stewart, Vance Walker

A total of 19 new players where added to Denvers 2015 team. Quick turnover. What should be noted is that Elway didn't really start focusing on defense untl 2014 and especially after his loss to seattle. Hence all the defensive free agents.
We could also do this type of defensive upgrade to our team and be ready in 2 years. Our offense is better than what denvers was (with the declining payton) so we might be able to get away with a defense almost as good as denvers.
 

NEODOG

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Sorry, I don't buy into that as a cast in stone rule for a team.

No offense, no play-offs.

Or did you think last season all the teams Dallas played were Super Bowl bound with their stellar defenses?

Oh yeah, Romo was out.

Carolina crushed us defensively.....
Denver crushed Carolina Defensively.......

See the trend here?

So, a fresh pick QB or having Romo back would've won those games all by themselves?

Not buying it
 

Toruk_Makto

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If there is a franchise QB you take him. If not you pass.

I don't think there is a franchise QB in this draft.
 

TwoDeep3

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Carolina crushed us defensively.....
Denver crushed Carolina Defensively.......

See the trend here?

So, a fresh pick QB or having Romo back would've won those games all by themselves?

Not buying it

Romo missed how many games and how many games did Dallas lose. Yes, I see a trend. I also see a team that is not poised, even with several rookie defenders, to be in position to win it all.

So, essentially this team wasted Romo's career. But they have assembled sopme nice talent that is young.

So we can argue about who wins what, but the ugly truth is we have an aging quarterback who will not win without the right surrounding cast. Unfortunately for him that cast won't be gatherd in time for his heroics to win it all, I am afraid.

But the team is still building, and it would be nice to have a plan beyond Romo's years.

Because Romo is still good enough to keep this team from being this high up in the draft.

It's pragmatism versus a pipe dream this front office will create a defense to get the team to the summit.

Now may be too late, but the future is not.
 

Alexander

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But the team is still building, and it would be nice to have a plan beyond Romo's years.

That is what we should do. Plan beyond Romo. Starting now.

But since it is not a damn debate, don't expect proactivity.

Just expect more plugging of leaks in the dyke while other cracks start appearing.

Then next year, there is a new one. And then another. Spackle and mud some more. Some sandbags thereafter.

And when the big QB one pops, then panic will ensue.

You know it is coming because we have seen it before.
 

Alexander

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I understand where you are coming from but there are other defensive players they could take at different positions to make this current D better and closer to what denver has. Linebackers,DTs, safeties and corners maybe. Im thinking a 2-3 year max process.

So the flavor of the moment is get ourselves a Denver defense?

We are still working on the copy cat "Seattle" defense that started after Kiffin and Marinelli were hired.
 

Alexander

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And that has pretty much been my argument all along – whittled down to 2 sentences. Well said.

So you don't like the QB prospects in this draft.

How about next year? See one that meets your personal standards there?
 
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