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******. THIS is exactly what happens after a lifetime of eating too much pork!!!!!!1!Redskins2008;2083795 said:
The Roy Myth Thread
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jobberone
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dallasfaniac;2083845 said:
I'll concede it says something about the LBs Roy subs for. They aren't as capable to transition to a DB like a S could. But that's just one thing for the team to have to react. There a quite a few and I'm not in condition to talk about it right now.
Maybe tomorrow. I'm busted. GN all.
JohnnyHopkins
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Redskins2008;2083795 said:
Tarzan have point. Should coach Defense.
jobberone
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dallasfaniac;2083845 said:
It is also a knock on RWs ability to cover man to man although LBs are required to pick up the RBs coming out of the backfield (that's a generalization) and could have coverage in an area at times. They are not always just a line of players underneath making it difficult for QBs to pass over them. They could also have responsibility to cover a TE. They also are responsible for players cutting across the field thru their territory. And they are responsible for the underneath seams say between a CB in the flats and there area inside. They can also help the CB take away the lower flats making those shorter outs harder because the QB has to throw the ball over the LB hitting the player behind him and the CB right behind him. There's more.
So putting RW at :B is supposed to put a better covering player at the LB position.
The other side is you're putting a better covering S or CB in his place back there. Now you can argue that RW is the best S to play the LB position with his size and speed. You aren't going to be able to put Watkins in that position.
Depends on how you look at it. However, ask yourself why they subsituted for RW and not for Hamlin.
There is no way to explain away the entire scenario. You can pull for RW and still be a realist.
tomson75
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Yeah, that's right.
http://www.nfl.com/freeagency/story...0d5d808470ee&template=with-video&confirm=true
Today's NFL is turning some positions into endangered species
By Pat Kirwan | NFL.com
Senior Analyst
As teams spend the next 60 days putting the final touches on their training camp rosters, they have to consider a lot of different factors. As they do for free agency and the draft, teams must evaluate the talent still available along with their own needs. But they also need to think about their division opponents and they need to consider changes in the game as well as how their coaching staffs approach the basic concepts of offense and defense.
Jonathan Daniel / Getty Images
Mike Singletary was one of the best middle linebackers in NFL history, but would his playing time be limited in today's NFL?
In doing so, many teams are finding that several traditional positions are not what they used to be. Some positions have changed, and the requirements for playing those positions in today's NFL have changed. This is leading to some interesting personnel decisions in the offseason.
Traditional middle linebackers, strong safeties, in-line tight ends, and fullbacks -- as we once knew them -- are dinosaurs in the modern game, which emphasizes spreading everyone out and looking for favorable matchups. Players at these positions are spending less time on the field, and that playing time looks to be shrinking even more as we head into 2008.
Let's take a position-by-position look at these four spots:
Middle linebacker
Despite NFL Films' efforts to turn Brian Urlacher into Dick Butkus or Mike Singletary, the fact is Urlacher plays a completely different position than those former Monsters of the Midway.
The "Mike" has always traditionally been a big, strong, tackling machine whose primary responsibility was defending the run. Urlacher certainly has some of those qualities. He can pop the ball carrier with the best of them. But the MLB also has to be able to play laterally and display enough speed to stretch outside runs to the sideline. It's not a tackle-to-tackle job anymore. The MLB is expected to drop into deep middle coverage; when he can't do that, he becomes a situational role player at best.
The emergence of the Cover Two defense, and empty-set backfields have also made the MLB position a key to pass coverage. Urlacher again is the ultimate example of this -- a player with speed, range, coverage skills and good hands. In the Cover Two, the Mike is asked to drop deep in zone coverages without sacrificing his ability to defend the draw or trap play, but also must have enough man cover skills to run with the tight end or the running back out of the backfield.
Strong safety
The strong safety is another position that has undergone a pretty major transformation in recent years, and the Cover Two again plays a part. Dallas strong safety Roy Williams is still a good football player, but what he does best (drop down into the box and support the run defense) is not what the Cowboys need most. Adam Archuleta was recently released by the Bears because he was a "box" safety as well.
John Lynch is more of a box safety and he feels like there is a difference of opinion in Denver about his present value. It is possible that the true strong safety is going to become a situational player. If and when a fullback or an in-line tight end enters the game, there is a reason to send the box safety into the game. But if a team is in a three-receiver package or has a hybrid tight end with vertical speed, then the old-time safety may have to be on the sideline.
Keep in mind there will have to be a readjustment period to the salary cap as time goes on for box safeties, who wind up playing 50 percent of the snaps as opposed to 100 percent, as they normally did in the past. Defensive coaches know the offenses are trying to create matchups or force box players to work in space and they can't continue to let offenses have their way every Sunday. Players such as Kellen Winslow, Reggie Bush, and Brian Westbrook have served notice to the strong safeties that they may have to be off the field in certain situations.
Defensive linemen substitue freely by down and distance situations. Linebackers are replaced by cornerbacks when a third wide receiver enters the game. It looks as if it's time to marry the strong safety to personnel groupings that present power run issues and not matchup problems.
Free Agency 2008
» Track more than 400 free agents
» Around the Web: Latest player news
» Photos: Free agents on the move
Tight end/fullback
These two dinosaurs go hand in hand, because they essentially have morphed into a new position.
For years, the fullback was a big bodied blocker who led his tailback into the line and blocked the inside linebacker on an iso lead. If he was lucky he would carry the ball 10 times a year. While those traits still hold true to some extent, the bigger role of the fullback in today's pass-oriented NFL is that of a receiver. Many fullbacks, like Tony Richardson, now with the Jets, have made their living as blockers who can catch the screen or make a play in the flat, but also understand blitz pickups and how to protect their QB.
Kyle Brady, a current free agent who most recently played with the Patriots, is your standard in-line tight end. He's a mountain of a man who can block and basically serves as an additional lineman, both in the run game and pass protection. He can help an overmatched OT with the edge rush, and coaches will always drool over that kind of player. However, the current demands of the position also require teams to look for a smaller tight end who can run and catch.
Spread offenses like those used in New England and Indianapolis like to employ the tight end as a receiver split out into the slot. These players generally have too much speed for the linebackers in coverage and too much size for the safeties. The best players at the position today, like Cleveland's Kellen Winslow Jr., have a good balance of both skill sets -- but they are primarily asked to be downfield receiving threats.
Then there's the H-back. Chris Cooley in Washington is probably the ideal example. These players have the ability to line up anywhere -- as a back, split out, or in motion -- using their alignments in combination with their speed and receiving skills to exploit weaknesses in coverage. Generally thought to lack the size and strength to be dominant blockers, players such as Cooley and recent Jets draft pick Dustin Keller are generally better when asked to block in open space. But make no mistake, the H-back is considered an offensive weapon, especially in a West Coast type offense that relies on short underneath routes. He can be the best friend of a young quarterback who needs a reliable target in the middle of the field. Just take a look at Cooley's numbers in recent years and you'll see what I mean.
In the end, while many sports are going through an age of specialization, the NFL is looking for versatility in players who can do a variety of things, fill several roles, and in the process, save dollars under the salary cap. Those players are generally gone by May, so expect teams to take a harder look at their needs, especially at these traditional positions, and limit their search to players who can fill specific roles on their team and affect situations that will be dictated by the opponents teams will play this year.
http://www.nfl.com/freeagency/story...0d5d808470ee&template=with-video&confirm=true
Today's NFL is turning some positions into endangered species
By Pat Kirwan | NFL.com
Senior Analyst
As teams spend the next 60 days putting the final touches on their training camp rosters, they have to consider a lot of different factors. As they do for free agency and the draft, teams must evaluate the talent still available along with their own needs. But they also need to think about their division opponents and they need to consider changes in the game as well as how their coaching staffs approach the basic concepts of offense and defense.
Jonathan Daniel / Getty Images
Mike Singletary was one of the best middle linebackers in NFL history, but would his playing time be limited in today's NFL?
In doing so, many teams are finding that several traditional positions are not what they used to be. Some positions have changed, and the requirements for playing those positions in today's NFL have changed. This is leading to some interesting personnel decisions in the offseason.
Traditional middle linebackers, strong safeties, in-line tight ends, and fullbacks -- as we once knew them -- are dinosaurs in the modern game, which emphasizes spreading everyone out and looking for favorable matchups. Players at these positions are spending less time on the field, and that playing time looks to be shrinking even more as we head into 2008.
Let's take a position-by-position look at these four spots:
Middle linebacker
Despite NFL Films' efforts to turn Brian Urlacher into Dick Butkus or Mike Singletary, the fact is Urlacher plays a completely different position than those former Monsters of the Midway.
The "Mike" has always traditionally been a big, strong, tackling machine whose primary responsibility was defending the run. Urlacher certainly has some of those qualities. He can pop the ball carrier with the best of them. But the MLB also has to be able to play laterally and display enough speed to stretch outside runs to the sideline. It's not a tackle-to-tackle job anymore. The MLB is expected to drop into deep middle coverage; when he can't do that, he becomes a situational role player at best.
The emergence of the Cover Two defense, and empty-set backfields have also made the MLB position a key to pass coverage. Urlacher again is the ultimate example of this -- a player with speed, range, coverage skills and good hands. In the Cover Two, the Mike is asked to drop deep in zone coverages without sacrificing his ability to defend the draw or trap play, but also must have enough man cover skills to run with the tight end or the running back out of the backfield.
Strong safety
The strong safety is another position that has undergone a pretty major transformation in recent years, and the Cover Two again plays a part. Dallas strong safety Roy Williams is still a good football player, but what he does best (drop down into the box and support the run defense) is not what the Cowboys need most. Adam Archuleta was recently released by the Bears because he was a "box" safety as well.
John Lynch is more of a box safety and he feels like there is a difference of opinion in Denver about his present value. It is possible that the true strong safety is going to become a situational player. If and when a fullback or an in-line tight end enters the game, there is a reason to send the box safety into the game. But if a team is in a three-receiver package or has a hybrid tight end with vertical speed, then the old-time safety may have to be on the sideline.
Keep in mind there will have to be a readjustment period to the salary cap as time goes on for box safeties, who wind up playing 50 percent of the snaps as opposed to 100 percent, as they normally did in the past. Defensive coaches know the offenses are trying to create matchups or force box players to work in space and they can't continue to let offenses have their way every Sunday. Players such as Kellen Winslow, Reggie Bush, and Brian Westbrook have served notice to the strong safeties that they may have to be off the field in certain situations.
Defensive linemen substitue freely by down and distance situations. Linebackers are replaced by cornerbacks when a third wide receiver enters the game. It looks as if it's time to marry the strong safety to personnel groupings that present power run issues and not matchup problems.
Free Agency 2008
» Track more than 400 free agents
» Around the Web: Latest player news
» Photos: Free agents on the move
Tight end/fullback
These two dinosaurs go hand in hand, because they essentially have morphed into a new position.
For years, the fullback was a big bodied blocker who led his tailback into the line and blocked the inside linebacker on an iso lead. If he was lucky he would carry the ball 10 times a year. While those traits still hold true to some extent, the bigger role of the fullback in today's pass-oriented NFL is that of a receiver. Many fullbacks, like Tony Richardson, now with the Jets, have made their living as blockers who can catch the screen or make a play in the flat, but also understand blitz pickups and how to protect their QB.
Kyle Brady, a current free agent who most recently played with the Patriots, is your standard in-line tight end. He's a mountain of a man who can block and basically serves as an additional lineman, both in the run game and pass protection. He can help an overmatched OT with the edge rush, and coaches will always drool over that kind of player. However, the current demands of the position also require teams to look for a smaller tight end who can run and catch.
Spread offenses like those used in New England and Indianapolis like to employ the tight end as a receiver split out into the slot. These players generally have too much speed for the linebackers in coverage and too much size for the safeties. The best players at the position today, like Cleveland's Kellen Winslow Jr., have a good balance of both skill sets -- but they are primarily asked to be downfield receiving threats.
Then there's the H-back. Chris Cooley in Washington is probably the ideal example. These players have the ability to line up anywhere -- as a back, split out, or in motion -- using their alignments in combination with their speed and receiving skills to exploit weaknesses in coverage. Generally thought to lack the size and strength to be dominant blockers, players such as Cooley and recent Jets draft pick Dustin Keller are generally better when asked to block in open space. But make no mistake, the H-back is considered an offensive weapon, especially in a West Coast type offense that relies on short underneath routes. He can be the best friend of a young quarterback who needs a reliable target in the middle of the field. Just take a look at Cooley's numbers in recent years and you'll see what I mean.
In the end, while many sports are going through an age of specialization, the NFL is looking for versatility in players who can do a variety of things, fill several roles, and in the process, save dollars under the salary cap. Those players are generally gone by May, so expect teams to take a harder look at their needs, especially at these traditional positions, and limit their search to players who can fill specific roles on their team and affect situations that will be dictated by the opponents teams will play this year.
khiladi
Well-Known Member
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The strong safety is another position that has undergone a pretty major transformation in recent years, and the Cover Two again plays a part. Dallas strong safety Roy Williams is still a good football player, but what he does best (drop down into the box and support the run defense) is not what the Cowboys need most.
And yet, he had one of his worst seasons in terms of tackles when he played more in the box. Who knows how many tackles he had behind the line of scrimmage this year. When he was playing plenty of cover-2 in 2006, he topped his best interception total.
And yet, he had one of his worst seasons in terms of tackles when he played more in the box. Who knows how many tackles he had behind the line of scrimmage this year. When he was playing plenty of cover-2 in 2006, he topped his best interception total.
AdamJT13
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masomenos85;2083754 said:
Including special teams --
2002 = 3 of 4 fumbles forced by Roy were turnovers
2003 = 1 of 2
2004 = 1 of 1
2005 = 3 of 3
2006 = 0 of 1
2007 = 0 of 0
Total = 8 of 11
According to the Cowboys' coaches --
2002 = 88 solo of 127 total (69.3 percent)
2003 = 58 of 86 (67.4 percent)
2004 = 77 of 106 (72.6 percent)
2005 = 62 of 82 (75.6 percent)
2006 = 53 of 86 (61.6 percent)
2007 = 82 of 115 (71.3 percent)
According to NFL.com -
2002 = 88 of 99 (88.9 percent)
2003 = 55 of 72 (76.4 percent)
2004 = 73 of 94 (77.7 percent)
2005 = 69 of 81 (85.2 percent)
2006 = 52 of 62 (83.9 percent)
2007 = 73 of 92 (79.3 percent)
These were the numbers you posted --
2002 - 90%
2003 - 83%
2004 - 82%
2005 - 86%
2006 - 84%
2007 - 79%
So, either your math was a little off, or you're using some other source with different numbers.
Both the Cowboys' coaches and NFL.com have Roy with his second-highest number of solo tackles last season. And they have him with either his second- or third-most total tackles. He should have "stood out" with tackles moreso last season than in most of his other seasons.
It was a compliment. It took 34 pages before someone even tried to prove any of the myths true.
JonCJG
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dcfanatic;2085927 said:
We could have started Keith Davis last year and I would bet anything he would have at least forced a fumble the way he hits.
Roy is overpaid at this point and needs to go if he has another season like last year.
Hamlin to SS and Henry to FS would be just fine by me this year or next.
LittleBoyBlue
Redvolution
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Wow almost 600 posts...
What a shame...
Roy used to be "The Hammer"... now he is the "Nail"....
(emoticon pun intended)
What a shame...
Roy used to be "The Hammer"... now he is the "Nail"....
(emoticon pun intended)
AdamJT13
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KD;2086824 said:
Keith Davis has played 68 games in his career, including 22 starts, and he has ZERO interceptions in his career.
In 2006, according to STATS LLC, Davis was BY FAR the worst coverage safety in the NFL -- he allowed 18.8 yards per ATTEMPT. Not per completion -- per attempt. The next-worst in the league was 16.3 ypa (by Pat Watkins).
And you wanted Davis to start last season?
DaBoys4Life
Benched
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YoMick;2086835 said:Wow almost 600 posts...
What a shame...
Roy used to be "The Hammer"... now he is the "Nail"....
Thats funny because i never see RW put on his backside.
JohnnyHopkins
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Oh Roy Myth thread, welcome back my old friend. Please continue to make yet another of my days sunny and bright!
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