The Umpteenth Roy Williams Gripe Thread **Merge | Deion Apology Audio Post #589**

[Stautner]

Why the rush to blame a single person for the offensive struggle anyways? There are way too many variables at play for it to be that simple.

I don't think anyone is blaming a single person for the offensive struggles. I think people are just looking at those that have obvious issues that hurt the offense.

Aong these are Roy Williams, Romo, Garrett, Flozell ....... and all have received plenty of criticism.

 

[BlindFaith]

I'm not denying anything about Romo, I'm just stating the simple fact that this isn't about Romo or Roy not catching balls that no one could catch. I agree completely that Romo has had some accuracy problems, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT.

Once again, if Romo throws an uncatchable pass, THAT DOES NOT FALL ON WILLIAMS. Do the bold letters help you understand it better? I've said it 2-3 times but I guess you've missed it.

Everything you are saying deals with Romo's accuracy and says NOTHING AT ALL about Roy's drops, and Roy's inability to make the tough catches that may not officially qualify as drops but that quality receivers make much of the time, or Roy's inability to get at least somewhat in sync with Romo the way the other receivers have.

Once again, and I'll type it in bold again so you will see it this time, ROMO MISTHROWING AT TIMES DOES NOT EXPLAIN AWAY ALL THAT.

Roy has 4 or fewer drops. According to the stats. Where are all of these tough catches that hes not making but should be even though the ball is uncatchable but doesn't officially qualify as a drop coming from.

What the hell exactly are you even talking about?

Are you saying that he should be able to reach 4 feet above his head with two guys bearing down on him and make a finger tip catch only to get obliterated and possibly knocked out of the game like he did before? Is that what you want. Or maybe stop in mid stride, on a dime, and jet backwards three yards to make a catch.

Get off his jock. If you think he runs poor routes, then fine. I cant definitively argue that he does or doesn't ... as should you.

He is capable of making plays when given the ball. He has shown that. He had a big fumble that's sticking in everyones craw. So did Barber. Where's the Barber is a bum thread. Roy has had a couple of drops, but they all do.

I'm saying if Romo could more accurately place the ball on him you would see him justify himself. I think he's down in the confindence department because of it.

 

[Doomsday101]

I think there are times Romo has been off and times RW has dropped passes he should have made same could be said with other WR as well. All I care about is the guys going out and working on improving so that they can raise their play to the next level they will need to if they want to make a real run.

 

[BlindFaith]

Well for my part I hated the Roy trade, but really really thought he would at least be decent. Not 1st rounder, 3rd rounder $45M good, but I thought he could pick up at least some of the slack of the departed Mouthy One. Unfortunately he hasn't come close, and I'm a little tired of the "everyone gets better passes than me" schtick from him.

Mostly I hope we draft a WR next year, because I'm not sure the answer is on the roster. I think Austin will be a fine, even great #2 when there is a bonafide #1 across from him, but I don't trust him to be a much more than a better Alvin Harper.

Coming out of college I really thought he'd be an epic bust. But now I think he is capable of being a number one guy.

 

[Stautner]

Roy has 4 or fewer drops. According to the stats. Where are all of these tough catches that hes not making but should be even though the ball is uncatchable but doesn't officially qualify as a drop coming from.

What the hell exactly are you even talking about?

Are you saying that he should be able to reach 4 feet above his head with two guys bearing down on him and make a finger tip catch only to get obliterated and possibly knocked out of the game like he did before? Is that what you want. Or maybe stop in mid stride, on a dime, and jet backwards three yards to make a catch.

Get off his jock. If you think he runs poor routes, then fine. I cant definitively argue that he does or doesn't ... as should you.

He is capable of making plays when given the ball. He has shown that. He had a big fumble that's sticking in everyones craw. So did Barber. Where's the Barber is a bum thread. Roy has had a couple of drops, but they all do.

I'm saying if Romo could more accurately place the ball on him you would see him justify himself. I think he's down in the confindence department because of it.

I am saying that if he can't catch some of the balls that hit him in the hands but are tough to catch that is a problem for a quality receiver. I'm saying that balls that hit him in the helmet and bounce away are a problem. I'm saying that running pass routes that are so far off from the route Romo was throwing to that the announcers have to go to the replay to determine who the intended receiver was is a problem. I'm saying cutting a route short then finding the throw going to the spot where he was headed is a problem.

All of this collectivelly.

Yet you want to boil it down to just Romo's throws.

Or then forget that and boil it down to just a stat about drops (remember he missed a few games - there could be more otherwise).

Try the collective package of problems instead of trying to explain away EVERYTHING with a comment about ONE thing that addresses ONE of the parts of the package.

 

[BlindFaith]

I am saying that if a ball hits him in the hands he should catch some of them even if they are tough catches. I'm saying that balls that hit him in the helmet and bounce away are a problem. I'm saying that running pass routes that are so far off from the route Romo was throwing to that the announcers have to go to the replay to determine who the intended receiver was is a problem. I'm saying cutting a route short then finding the throw going to the spot where he was headed is a problem.

So you know for a fact that Roy is running bad routes? If you know this to be true, then how can I argue.

You win.

 

[dcfanatic]

The media (and the fans have been sucked right in) have finally found the spark they have been looking for to get the forest fire going. Roy, because of the contract and the amount of draft picks was ALWAYS going to be a prime canidate...and now they have got all the evidence they need (because for those that missed the memo, we were just eliminated from the playoffs and/or playoff race) to take off and run with this. Once again, we have allowed the enemy on the FIELD to be an afterthought! Roy is going to have to spend the rest of the season trying to beat the MEDIA first.....then the opposition. Winning in Dallas is NEVER enough. And the funny thing is we really have not WON anything or LOST anything...but you would think we just got eliminated from the playoffs with all the swirl that is going on. I have been a fan a long time...and just when I thought this was finally the season where we could just play football and concentrate on the team in the other lockeroom...the style police are slowly gaining control of the Cowboy lockeroom!

Not really.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

The media (and the fans have been sucked right in) have finally found the spark they have been looking for to get the forest fire going. Roy, because of the contract and the amount of draft picks was ALWAYS going to be a prime canidate...and now they have got all the evidence they need (because for those that missed the memo, we were just eliminated from the playoffs and/or playoff race) to take off and run with this. Once again, we have allowed the enemy on the FIELD to be an afterthought! Roy is going to have to spend the rest of the season trying to beat the MEDIA first.....then the opposition. Winning in Dallas is NEVER enough. And the funny thing is we really have not WON anything or LOST anything...but you would think we just got eliminated from the playoffs with all the swirl that is going on. I have been a fan a long time...and just when I thought this was finally the season where we could just play football and concentrate on the team in the other lockeroom...the style police are slowly gaining control of the Cowboy lockeroom!

No, Roy needs to spend the rest of the season learning how to catch a football.

 

[Doomsday101]

So you know for a fact that Roy is running bad routes? If you know this to be true, then how can I argue.

You win.

I would say at times they have not been on the same page, who was right or wrong on the rout always hard to say. To me it is more important to correct it than to waste time trying to place blame.

Prior to the skins games I thought the timing between Romo and RW showed some improvement, this past game Romo was being high with some passes not just to RW. Thankfully Romo did get things going and marched the team down the field for a game winning TD.

Romo like any QB out there is not beyond having rough games but I also know you don't maintain a QB rating as high as Romo by having alot of bad games.

RW also shared in this and needs to make the plays when they come his way, he had big play in GB only to have the ball swatted out of his hands and of course the ball he said he missed in the lights he has to make his plays no if's about it.

 

[BlindFaith]

I would say at times they have not been on the same page, who was right or wrong on the rout always hard to say. To me it is more important to correct it than to waste time trying to place blame.

Well, I'm on vacation so I have nothing but time to waste placing blame.

Especially since I have no way to help correct it.

 

[Direwolf63]

The media (and the fans have been sucked right in) have finally found the spark they have been looking for to get the forest fire going. Roy, because of the contract and the amount of draft picks was ALWAYS going to be a prime canidate...and now they have got all the evidence they need (because for those that missed the memo, we were just eliminated from the playoffs and/or playoff race) to take off and run with this. Once again, we have allowed the enemy on the FIELD to be an afterthought! Roy is going to have to spend the rest of the season trying to beat the MEDIA first.....then the opposition. Winning in Dallas is NEVER enough. And the funny thing is we really have not WON anything or LOST anything...but you would think we just got eliminated from the playoffs with all the swirl that is going on. I have been a fan a long time...and just when I thought this was finally the season where we could just play football and concentrate on the team in the other lockeroom...the style police are slowly gaining control of the Cowboy lockeroom!

If RW would just shut up and catch the ball when its thrown to him, it wouldn't be an issue.

 

[Bleu Star]

yay. more merge bait to add to the discussion surrounding that decorated bag of garbage aka the venerable enigma roy williams esquire.

 

[Doomsday101]

Well, I'm on vacation so I have nothing but time to waste placing blame.

Especially since I have no way to help correct it.

I can't correct it either but they can. That to me is what matters. Dallas is going to need them connecting along with Austin, Crayton and Witten as we go against some of the top teams. Personally I think they are very capable of getting things going I don't know if they will we will watch the games and find out, if they can then I like our chances for big success on the season if not it will be a struggle. For those who want to put a percentage of blame between Romo and Williams have at it 50/50, 60/40 or whatever fine by me I’m more interested in seeing them get it going.

 

[Bleu Star]

blind faith is a fitting name. excellent selection!!! Now back to your regularly scheduled programming...

No. Of course it's not all Roy. It's truly a combination of things. I'll outline below.

ridiculously poor routes

a sad inability for someone at the nfl level to comprehend the play book in a reasonable period of time

drop city

hands of stone

whine city

jealousyville

One secong thought, the vast majority of it is tied to the venerable decorative trash bag that lines up opposite Miles Austin.

 

[Stautner]

So you know for a fact that Roy is running bad routes? If you know this to be true, then how can I argue.

You win.

All it takes is a little logic.

Let's start with the knowledge that everyone from the fans to the media to the coaches to Roy and Rom themselves have discussed that Roy and Romo have had trouble being on the same page. That's a fair premise to start with because even the principles agree.

So, there have been a disproportionate share of problems with Roy and Romo being in sync than with other receivers.

In addition, with the very rare exception, every time Romo throws a ball to a receiver other than Roy, even if he throws poorly, a person can still tell immediately who the intended receiver is. You can see the route, you can see the throw, but either the route was slightly off or the throw was off.

With Roy there have been times the announcers have no idea who the target was supposed to be and they have to go back to the replay and try to figure it out. Other times you can tell that Roy was the target, but he clearly ran a different pattern than Romo was expecting.

Now, stay with me on this, and try to remember what they taught you about logic and science in school. When there different study cases all with the same set of variables, but there is one changing variable, and the results are similar in all but one case, you look at the changing variable as the culprit. The receiver being thrown to is the changing variable, so that's where you look.

Now, you can choose to believe it's all Romo's fault and for some unfathomable reason he gets confused on what route the receiver is running disproportionately more with Roy than with anyone else who has been a receiver in Dallas the last 4 years, or you can be logical and understand what the changing variable is and let your mind lead you to the inevitable conclusion.

 

[BlindFaith]

blind faith is a fitting name. excellent selection!!! Now back to your regularly scheduled programming...

No. Of course it's not all Roy. It's truly a combination of things. I'll outline below.

ridiculously poor routes

a sad inability for someone at the nfl level to comprehend the play book in a reasonable period of time

drop city

hands of stone

whine city

jealousyville

One secong thought, the vast majority of it is tied to the venerable decorative trash bag that lines up opposite Miles Austin.

Whatever you say bleu cheese.

 

[wileedog]

All it takes is a little logic.

With the very rare exception, every time Romo throws a ball to a receiver other than Roy, even if he throws poorly, a person can still tell immediately who the intended receiver is. You can see the route, you can see the throw, but either the route was slightly off or the throw was off.

With Roy there have been times the announcers have no idea who the target was supposed to be and they have to go back to the replay and try to figure it out. Other times you can tell that Roy was the target, but he clearly ran a different pattern than Romo was expecting.

Now, stay with me on this, and try to remember what they taught you about logic and science in school. When there different study cases all with the same set of variables, but there is one changing variable, and the results are similar in all but one case, you look at the changing variable as the culprit. The receiver being thrown to is the changing variable, so that's where you look.

Now, you can choose to believe it's all Romo's fault and for some unfathomable reason he gets confused on what route the receiver is running more with Roy than with anyone else who has been a receiver in Dallas the last 4 years, or you can be logical and understand what the changing variable is and let your mind lead you to the inevitable conclusion.

Meh, I'm on your side of the argument but this is the same "I saw, they saw, the commentators saw.." logic that Blind Faith started with.

For me the key right now is that he has above average success with Witten. He's struggling with the other WRs for various reasons, and the WR who is supposed to be the best he is struggling the most with. But I think BF at least made a case with real numbers why some of the blame needs to fall on Romo - his numbers with our WRs in general are sub par. The fact they are the worst though with Roy is damning.

And we don't know at all what role Red Jesus plays in this. There have been grumblings that he has not used Roy optimally based on his capabilities (something which has seemed better lately, as Roy seems to be at least getting open more than earlier in the year). That needs to be factored in too.

I do think its largely fixable, everyone needs to execute.

 

[Stautner]

Meh, I'm on your side of the argument but this is the same "I saw, they saw, the commentators saw.." logic that Blind Faith started with.

For me the key right now is that he has above average success with Witten. He's struggling with the other WRs for various reasons, and the WR who is supposed to be the best he is struggling the most with. But I think BF at least made a case with real numbers why some of the blame needs to fall on Romo - his numbers with our WRs in general are sub par. The fact they are the worst though with Roy is damning.

And we don't know at all what role Red Jesus plays in this. There have been grumblings that he has not used Roy optimally based on his capabilities (something which has seemed better lately, as Roy seems to be at least getting open more than earlier in the year). That needs to be factored in too.

I do think its largely fixable, everyone needs to execute.

Hey, if i saw it, the announcers saw it, and Romo and Williams admit to it, it's there, wouldn't you agree. I readily accept that if I were talking purely from my own observation with nothing to back it up then it would be purely an opinion, but nobody is disputing the problem exists. My point is simply that when the problem is disproportionately worse with one receiver, and everyone admits it, even the receiver, then it makes no sense to focus blame on the variable that is constant with all receivers. You look at the variable that is different in the disproportionate case.

As for "Red Jesus", maybe he calls bad plays, just as Romo can make bad throws. That's beside the point. Roy is still responsible for running the route called for and if he doesn't it's his fault.

That's what you don't seem to get. I give Romo the blame for bad throws, but that's not what this is about. Bad throws are not the issue when it comes to running the correct route or catching a good throw, or ocassionally hauling in the tough catch.

Bottom line is you have to blame Romo for what Romo is to blame for, and you blame Williams for what he is to blame for. Just as it would be ludicrous to blame Williams for not catching a ball 10 feet over his head, it's ludicrous to blame Romo when Williams runs the wrong route or drops a pass. As for passes that are not that well thrown but Williams can get his hands on, I don't expect him to turn those into routine plays, and I know and expect some will be missed and Romo has to share that blame, but a guy that cost us a big salary and a 1st and 3rd round pick should come up with at least a fair amount of those.

 

[UVAwahoos]

I think we need to bench this clown. He has alligator arms and runs lazy routes, and then chuckles and giggles like a little schoolgirl. I cannot stand him anymore. I've never seen a "#1" receiver fumble it as miserably at this idiot did in Green Bay. It's just a shame because he was actually whining about getting the ball, and then he pulls that kinda trash when he does get it.


​

 

[Bob Sacamano]

We have not won a playoff game since 1996...and worrying about someones stats is a BIG reason for this.

lol wut?