The Umpteenth Roy Williams Gripe Thread **Merge | Deion Apology Audio Post #589**

[DallasEast]

Well he's certainly responsible for the KC victory.

Thanks for patching him up, Hawkeye. Doesn't count though.

 

[stilltheguru]

Yeah, Miles and Patrick have been lighting it up the last couple of weeks.

Ask Philly about Miles.

 

[Stautner]

BS. There are plenty on here that will try and explain away the bad passes as poor route running.

What I'm trying to say as that between the scheme and the errant passes, Roy has been left with few opportunities. Most of those opportunities he's converted, he has had some inopportune drops and one fumble.

I know he has been open and not thrown to. I've seen it with my own eyes.

He is not the reason this offense is failing right now.

So who is?

I have no doubt that many of the passes were poor route running. When Romo is the constant on all pass plays, yet only with Roy does the pass not seem to have any relation to the route run, where is the logical place to look?

But that's only one aspect of the problems, and you can't explain away clear drops, clearly cutting routes short, failing to come up with the kind of tough catches a top WR has to make at times by saying Romo makes bad throws sometimes. That just can't explain away everything.

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

Well the offensive power house of the San Fransisco 49rs put up 24 on the same GB defense that we barely scored 7 on.

Oakland makes a QB change and they go out and hang 20 points on a very good Cincy defense and come away with a win.

The Bucs and the Chis Simms led Broncos were the only other two teams to score 7 points or less. Somehow the other 29 teams in the league found a way to score.

There is no way that with our RBs, offensive line, TEs and receivers that we should be held to 7 points, in any game against any team. Period!!!!

Not unless we have an ill designed schemes and have poor QB play.

sorry....when you are Dallas...when you are Tony Romo.....when you have the BEST STADIUM IN THE WORLD....people prepare, play and execute better. Should it be that way? Perhaps it shouldn't...but it is what it is. Cincy would not play us like they would play Oakland. Heck Cincy has SWEPT BOTH the Ravens and Steelers this year...so kind of hard to "get it up" for Oakland. Ditto for Green Bay San Francisco. Dallas takes haymakers EVERY week....not making excuses for Dallas, but the stadium is actually helping the OTHER team than it is helping us. We are always on this stage, so we are used to it. But these organizations come to the house that Jerry built and they would love nothing more than to stick it to ALL OF US!

 

[BlindFaith]

LOL! Which is why I pointed out the comp % and YPA. I left out 13,300 yards and 96 TDs in 3.5 seasons. He's on pace for another 4,000 yard season this year despite having what I consider some of the most mediocre WRs in the league (I'm not sold on Austin, Roy is a flop and Crayton is a JAG).

How many "averaged armed QBs, with no touch on a deep ball, marginal adeptness at reading coverages, poor timing from the pocket and the propensity to force a ball into coverage at the most inopportune time." do you see with those kinds of numbers?



Statistically yeah. I think if you put Romo on either one of those teams with Landry or Jimmy he wins just as many rings as those guys did. Both of those guys had powerhouse football teams, and neither were asked to shoulder the offensive load Tony is asked to. Both had superstars lined up at WR and RB, and solid offensive lines. Romo has HOF TE and some good, not great RBs, and an OLine held together with duct tape.

Ok, I'll take a deep breath and step away from the ledge. Romo has put up some very good numbers. But his completion percentages have been declining every year. He plays well against bad teams and not so well against good teams.

Maybe he's in a slump. Maybe teams have figured him out. Maybe it's the scheme. All I know is that there have been more games this year that have left me saying Why Romo, Why than in the past.

And until he proves he can lead this team to a playoff win, then my opinion of him wont change.

And as far as him being in the same league as Aikman or Staubach, he's not close.

 

[BlindFaith]

sorry....when you are Dallas...when you are Tony Romo.....when you have the BEST STADIUM IN THE WORLD....people prepare, play and execute better. Should it be that way? Perhaps it shouldn't...but it is what it is. Cincy would not play us like they would play Oakland. Heck Cincy has SWEPT BOTH the Ravens and Steelers this year...so kind of hard to "get it up" for Oakland. Ditto for Green Bay San Francisco. Dallas takes haymakers EVERY week....not making excuses for Dallas, but the stadium is actually helping the OTHER team than it is helping us. We are always on this stage, so we are used to it. But these organizations come to the house that Jerry built and they would love nothing more than to stick it to ALL OF US!

There may be a trickle of truth to that, but not much, not today anyway.

Back in the ealy 90's, yeah, I'd say teams came in and gave it their best shot.

Now, I think Dallas is just another game on the schedule, except for our division games.

 

[Doomsday101]

There may be a trickle of truth to that, but not much, not today anyway.

Back in the ealy 90's, yeah, I'd say teams came in and gave it their best shot.

Now, I think Dallas is just another game on the schedule, except for our division games.

Considering how many games we get nationally I think it is still a big deal for teams facing Dallas. Cowboys bring in ratings and players know the lights are brighter.

 

[JeffInDC]

The Green Bay argument is debatable based on Williams' drops, but to state that he accounted directly for the New York and Denver losses is laughable to say the least.

+1 (hell, + 100 because the laughs I got from AC's post almost made me black out - Romo couldn't hit water from a boat against the GMen) :laugh2:

 

[BlindFaith]

There are always going to be more misthrows than drops - that's just the nature of what a QB does versus what a WR does. 60% completion is great for a QB, but 60% catching balls that hit your hands is horrible for a WR. The problems with Roy don't disappear because Romo misthrows sometimes. A drop is still a drop, and failure to come up with some of the tougher catches is still failure to come up with tougher catches.

Well if 60 percent is great, than what is nearly 70 percent?

Romo is the 21st ranked QB in completion percentage.

There are 9 QBs with over 65 percent.

The likes of Orton, Garrard, Cutler, Smith, Edwards and Hasselback are all completing a higher percentage.

But I know, as it has been astutely pointed out, that his numbers would be higher sans the dropped passes by Roy.

But oddly enough, he doesn't even figure into the top 30 as far as dropped passes go. http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232

 

[Bleu Star]

hmmmm.... largest most active thread in the FZ... That RW sure is a rather popular clown. Carrot Top would be proud.

 

[DallasEast]

+1 (hell, + 100 because the laughs I got from AC's post almost made me black out - Romo couldn't hit water from a boat against the GMen) :laugh2:

If blame is going to be levied, let's not stop with just Romo. Romo doesn't return kicks like Felix Jones. Romo didn't fumble a kick return deep in Dallas territory. Romo wasn't on the field when the Giants converted the turnover into three points.

Which reminds me... how many points did the Giants crushes us anyway?

 

[Bleu Star]

Misguided souls.... none of this is on Romo. If the ball hits a WR in the hands at this level 95% of the time that should and will equate to a catch. Just face the sad reality. RW is our large adorable ball of suck.

Try not to blame Romo. If you're going to deflect try the guys that take up shop in front of Romo. That sort of deflection would at least make a hint of sense.

 

[DallasEast]

Misguided souls.... none of this is on Romo. If the ball hits a WR in the hands at this level 95% of the time that should and will equate to a catch. Just face the sad reality. RW is our large adorable ball of suck.

Try not to blame Romo. If you're going to deflect try the guys that take up shop in front of Romo. That sort of deflection would at least make a hint of sense.

One guy singles out Romo during a game.

Another guy says Romo doesn't make mistakes period.

I wonder why Romo is ever criticized?

I blame Jessica!

 

[BlindFaith]

Misguided souls.... none of this is on Romo. If the ball hits a WR in the hands at this level 95% of the time that should and will equate to a catch. Just face the sad reality. RW is our large adorable ball of suck.

Try not to blame Romo. If you're going to deflect try the guys that take up shop in front of Romo. That sort of deflection would at least make a hint of sense.

Well let's just work on hitting him in the hands then, and not 4 feet above his head, or in the ground or behind him.

Ooops, sorry, forgot about the poor route running.

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

There may be a trickle of truth to that, but not much, not today anyway.

Back in the ealy 90's, yeah, I'd say teams came in and gave it their best shot.

Now, I think Dallas is just another game on the schedule, except for our division games.

I TOTALLY disagree....for some teams...that is the ONLY time they get on TV that year. You got an owner..that loves to spend....you got an owner that will do anyting to field a winner. If I am a coach or a player on the opposing team, that is almost like an audition!

 

[BlindFaith]

I TOTALLY disagree....for some teams...that is the ONLY time they get on TV that year. You got an owner..that loves to spend....you got an owner that will do anyting to field a winner. If I am a coach or a player on the opposing team, that is almost like an audition!

Only time on TV? Every team is on TV in their own market. And with the NFL package any team can be seen. The Cowboys have six nationally televised games this year, the other 10 are local markets.

And if it takes playing the Dallas cowboys to get up as if an audition, then those players need not apply.

 

[Stautner]

Well if 60 percent is great, than what is nearly 70 percent?

Romo is the 21st ranked QB in completion percentage.

There are 9 QBs with over 65 percent.

The likes of Orton, Garrard, Cutler, Smith, Edwards and Hasselback are all completing a higher percentage.

But I know, as it has been astutely pointed out, that his numbers would be higher sans the dropped passes by Roy.

But oddly enough, he doesn't even figure into the top 30 as far as dropped passes go. http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232

Again, deflecting attention rather than paying attention to the point.

The point, that you are trying to ignore, is that by the very nature of the demands of the position, a QB is going to misthrow more than a WR is going to drop passes.

But let's take your attempt at a deflection and go from there .......... Even if we go with the 70% number you threw out (a rare completion % for any QB), that would still be a horrible percentage of balls caught for a receiver.

So my point stands even through your attempt to cloud the point.

 

[AMERICAS_FAN]

All this bickering is rediculous. You don't need to look furhter than hte last game to see a completely useless and ineffective Roy Willliams, and then Tony Romo doing what he does best, where in a critical momnet, on a busted coverage play, he squeeks out of the rush while playing with an injury, moves the pocket, communicates with an adjusting WR not named Roy Williams, and throws the game winning TD.

Forget about numbers and conversion percentages; stats be dammed! The bottom line is that Romo is a top QB in this league that connects with any Cowboys WR not names Roy Williams, while Roy Williams is a waste of roster space that sucks so hard, he swallows!

Can we all move on now - please?

 

[BlindFaith]

Again, deflecting attention rather than paying attention to the point.

The point, that you are trying to ignore, is that by the very nature of the demands of the position, a QB is going to misthrow more than a WR is going to drop passes.

But let's take your attempt at a deflection and go from there .......... Even if we go with the 70% number you threw out (a rare completion % for any QB), that would still be a horrible percentage of balls caught for a receiver.

So my point stands even through your attempt to cloud the point.

OK, I'm not argueing that fact. Yes, if a WR dropped 35 percent of the catchable balls thrown his way it would be horrendously poor.

But all I have to go by is number of times targeted and drops.

After doing some research, I came accross some interesting numbers.

The leading receiver in the league right now in Receptions to Times Targeted (I'll call this RTT) is Wes Welker at 79%. Here are the top 10:

Wes Welker, NWE 79 100 79.00%
Kevin Walter, HOU 31 40 77.50%
Steve Breaston, ARI 39 52 75.00%
Sidney Rice, MIN 50 68 73.53%
Jason Avant, PHI 27 37 72.97%
Hines Ward, PIT 63 88 71.59%
Antwaan Randle WAS 34 48 70.83%
Davone Bess, MIA 46 65 70.77%
Reggie Wayne, IND 76 108 70.37%
Kelley Washin, BAL 26 37 70.27%

All at 70% or better. Now these are just for receivers.

Now for where the Dallas WRs are:

Miles Austin, DAL 35 62 56.45%
Patrick Crayton, DAL 27 51 52.94%
Roy Williams, DAL 24 57 42.11%

These RTT numbers to our receivers are dramatically lower than those of the other team leaders.

Now according to the only source I could find reporting drops, Roy isn't listed. The list shows all of those with 5 drops or more, so if we say Roy has 4 drops and I make those flat out completions his numbers still look like this:

Roy Williams, DAL 28 57 49.12%

Still very poor. So less than half of the times Roy is targeted the ball is completed. This with adding in the 4 drops as completions. This is a direct reflection on QB accuracy.

As you can see with Austin and Crayton as well. Slighter better than 50%.

Now looking at Wittens numbers you will see a big difference.

Jason Witten, DAL 54 71 76.06%

He ranks just behind these two:

Heath Miller, PIT 54 64 84.38%
Dallas Clark, IND 65 81 80.25%

It's clear from this that Romo is far more comfortable throwing to his buddy than he is at throwing to any other WR on the team. And it's not even close.

Now let's look at the team numbers of the better offenses in the league.

Tim Highter, RB ARI 47 59 79.66%
Steve Breast, WR ARI 39 52 75.00%
Anquan Boldin, WR ARI 51 76 67.11%
Larry Fitzgld, WR ARI 71 107 66.36%

Donald Driver, WR GNB 46 72 63.89%
Greg Jennigs, WR GNB 43 73 58.90%

Steve Slaton, RB HOU 37 47 78.72%
Kevin Walter, WR HOU 31 40 77.50%
Owen Daniels, TE HOU 40 57 70.18%
Andre Johnso, WR HOU 58 104 55.77%

Dallas Clark, TE IND 65 81 80.25%
Reggie Wayne, WR IND 76 108 70.37%
Austin Collie, WR IND 39 57 68.42%
Pierre Garcon, WR IND 32 64 50.00%

Sidney Rice, WR MIN 50 68 73.53%
Percy Harvin, WR MIN 36 55 65.45%

Jeremy Shocky, TE NOR 39 55 70.91%
Devery Hendes, WR NOR 31 47 65.96%
Marques Colston, WR NOR 44 68 64.71%

Wes Welker, WR NWE 79 100 79.00%
Randy Moss, WR NWE 63 104 60.58%

Steve Smith, WR NYG 65 97 67.01%
Hakeem Nicks, WR NYG 28 46 60.87%
Kevin Boss, TE NYG 24 40 60.00%
Mario Mannim, WR NYG 40 68 58.82%

Heath Miller, TE PIT 54 64 84.38%
Hines Ward, WR PIT 63 88 71.59%
Santonio Holmes, WR PIT 50 86 58.14%
Mike Wallace, WR PIT 28 49 57.14%

Antonio Gates, TE SDG 52 76 68.42%
Vincent Jackson, WR SDG 47 72 65.28%
Malcom Floyd, WR SDG 20 35 57.14%

Jason Witten, TE DAL 54 71 76.06%
Miles Austin, WR DAL 35 62 56.45%
Patrick Crayton, WR DAL 27 51 52.94%
Roy Williams, WR DAL 24 57 42.11%

What I see is a QB very comfortable with his TE and if they take that away, he struggles with getting the ball to his other WRs.

Argue all you want about drops, poor route running, blah, blah, blah.

The elite offensive teams find ways to get the ball to the open guys.

 

[TwoDeep3]

OK, I'm not argueing that fact. Yes, if a WR dropped 35 percent of the catchable balls thrown his way it would be horrendously poor.

But all I have to go by is number of times targeted and drops.

After doing some research, I came accross some interesting numbers.

The leading receiver in the league right now in Receptions to Times Targeted (I'll call this RTT) is Wes Welker at 79%. Here are the top 10:

Wes Welker, NWE 79 100 79.00%
Kevin Walter, HOU 31 40 77.50%
Steve Breaston, ARI 39 52 75.00%
Sidney Rice, MIN 50 68 73.53%
Jason Avant, PHI 27 37 72.97%
Hines Ward, PIT 63 88 71.59%
Antwaan Randle WAS 34 48 70.83%
Davone Bess, MIA 46 65 70.77%
Reggie Wayne, IND 76 108 70.37%
Kelley Washin, BAL 26 37 70.27%

All at 70% or better. Now these are just for receivers.

Now for where the Dallas WRs are:

Miles Austin, DAL 35 62 56.45%
Patrick Crayton, DAL 27 51 52.94%
Roy Williams, DAL 24 57 42.11%

These RTT numbers to our receivers are dramatically lower than those of the other team leaders.

Now according to the only source I could find reporting drops, Roy isn't listed. The list shows all of those with 5 drops or more, so if we say Roy has 4 drops and I make those flat out completions his numbers still look like this:

Roy Williams, DAL 28 57 49.12%

Still very poor. So less than half of the times Roy is targeted the ball is completed. This with adding in the 4 drops as completions. This is a direct reflection on QB accuracy.

As you can see with Austin and Crayton as well. Slighter better than 50%.

Now looking at Wittens numbers you will see a big difference.

Jason Witten, DAL 54 71 76.06%

He ranks just behind these two:

Heath Miller, PIT 54 64 84.38%
Dallas Clark, IND 65 81 80.25%

It's clear from this that Romo is far more comfortable throwing to his buddy than he is at throwing to any other WR on the team. And it's not even close.

Now let's look at the team numbers of the better offenses in the league.

Tim Highter, RB ARI 47 59 79.66%
Steve Breast, WR ARI 39 52 75.00%
Anquan Boldin, WR ARI 51 76 67.11%
Larry Fitzgld, WR ARI 71 107 66.36%

Donald Driver, WR GNB 46 72 63.89%
Greg Jennigs, WR GNB 43 73 58.90%

Steve Slaton, RB HOU 37 47 78.72%
Kevin Walter, WR HOU 31 40 77.50%
Owen Daniels, TE HOU 40 57 70.18%
Andre Johnso, WR HOU 58 104 55.77%

Dallas Clark, TE IND 65 81 80.25%
Reggie Wayne, WR IND 76 108 70.37%
Austin Collie, WR IND 39 57 68.42%
Pierre Garcon, WR IND 32 64 50.00%

Sidney Rice, WR MIN 50 68 73.53%
Percy Harvin, WR MIN 36 55 65.45%

Jeremy Shocky, TE NOR 39 55 70.91%
Devery Hendes, WR NOR 31 47 65.96%
Marques Colston, WR NOR 44 68 64.71%

Wes Welker, WR NWE 79 100 79.00%
Randy Moss, WR NWE 63 104 60.58%

Steve Smith, WR NYG 65 97 67.01%
Hakeem Nicks, WR NYG 28 46 60.87%
Kevin Boss, TE NYG 24 40 60.00%
Mario Mannim, WR NYG 40 68 58.82%

Heath Miller, TE PIT 54 64 84.38%
Hines Ward, WR PIT 63 88 71.59%
Santonio Holmes, WR PIT 50 86 58.14%
Mike Wallace, WR PIT 28 49 57.14%

Antonio Gates, TE SDG 52 76 68.42%
Vincent Jackson, WR SDG 47 72 65.28%
Malcom Floyd, WR SDG 20 35 57.14%

Jason Witten, TE DAL 54 71 76.06%
Miles Austin, WR DAL 35 62 56.45%
Patrick Crayton, WR DAL 27 51 52.94%
Roy Williams, WR DAL 24 57 42.11%

What I see is a QB very comfortable with his TE and if they take that away, he struggles with getting the ball to his other WRs.

Argue all you want about drops, poor route running, blah, blah, blah.

The elite offensive teams find ways to get the ball to the open guys.

However, catchable ball is fluid in this argument and one that you cannot define without some bias.