The West Virginia Overdose Epidemic

[DFWJC]

I dont use drugs or alcohol; never have, never will.

But I recognize the right of individuals to use both and destroy themselves with it if they want.

To complain about the drugs side but then say that instead of doing hard drugs, just use alcohol instead...thats ridiculous. They're the same things. So if one wants to be consistent, then the stance on both substances should be the same. Not different.

If you are saying all drugs...then definitely not the same thing. Not even remotely

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

If you are saying all drugs...then definitely not the same thing. Not even remotely

Alcohol can be just as bad for an individual to ruin a family as heroin or oxycontin or meth.

It all depends on if the person can control alcohol or not. If that individual is an alcoholic...it can be just as bad and in some cases worse because it is easier to buy.

For most people alcohol is not an issue. They drink, they are responsible, they blow off some steam and move on.

For some Alcohol ruins their lives and those around them, is responsible for a HUGE amount of violence, medical problems and death.

That is some kind of argument he thinks that I was making that Alcohol is ok while everything else is bad...which is not what I was saying.

ANY of these drugs can be bad for an individual and those around them if they are controlling their lives...it is rarely a situation where one person ruins themselves without it taking a toll on others.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Mine is and I still have a problem with your short-sighted view. The vast majority of users don't just "destroy themselves", they damage a wide swath of people around them who care about them or depend on them.

Additionally, do you think that all of them have the means to fund their habit?..... for their entire lives? From the crime that is committed to the cost and use of additional resources from a public safety standpoint to just everyday events, peoples' drug use affects most of, if not all of us. Try to buy cold medicine lately?

Ding Ding Ding.

 

[DFWJC]

Alcohol can be just as bad for an individual to ruin a family as heroin or oxycontin or meth.

It all depends on if the person can control alcohol or not. If that individual is an alcoholic...it can be just as bad and in some cases worse because it is easier to buy.

For most people alcohol is not an issue. They drink, they are responsible, they blow off some steam and move on.

For some Alcohol ruins their lives and those around them, is responsible for a HUGE amount of violence, medical problems and death.

That is some kind of argument he thinks that I was making that Alcohol is ok while everything else is bad...which is not what I was saying.

ANY of these drugs can be bad for an individual and those around them if they are controlling their lives...it is rarely a situation where one person ruins themselves without it taking a toll on others.

I should have clarified but assumed it was a given and didn't want to write too much right now.

Anyway, hard to hang out, watch a game, drive if you must, and behave responsibly with with family and kids while on heroin...regardless of the dosage.
You can have 1-2 beers and do that with no issues at all.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I dont use drugs or alcohol; never have, never will.

But I recognize the right of individuals to use both and destroy themselves with it if they want.

To complain about the drugs side but then say that instead of doing hard drugs, just use alcohol instead...thats ridiculous. They're the same things. So if one wants to be consistent, then the stance on both substances should be the same. Not different.

Where does this right come from? I know of no rights, in this Country, that support that but it is possible that you know something I do not.

 

[Dodger12]

To argue that prescription/opioid drug abuse is the same as alcohol is silly. You can't really compare the two.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

To argue that prescription/opioid drug abuse is the same as alcohol is silly. You can't really compare the two.

You can say this as a fact.

Both can be abused enough to cause a person and others round them problems.

Both can cause physical problems, financial problems, legal problems and social problems.

They can be compared as drugs that can change your mental and physical ability while abusing them.

Now both can be taken within context and not cause problems. But I am talking about Abuse...not just casual beers here or there or having to take pain pills for medical reasons while following your doctors orders.

And even under controlled situations, it might not make a difference to someone who is addicted to the pills or to alcohol as both would be bad for that person.

But most of this is obvious.

 

[BigStar]

To argue that prescription/opioid drug abuse is the same as alcohol is silly. You can't really compare the two.

I hear your point, but outside of the higher addictive nature of opiates the only difference preventing the comparison is mainly availability; being legal can find it anywhere and with no limits on quantity. Hardcore alcoholics have violent withdrawals just the same as opiate addicts depending on longevity of abuse/addiction, etc. AA and recovery is widely embraced, but that's not the case with medical drug treatment unless you can afford it, etc.

 

[jobberone]

All things in moderation. Except for Cowboys' fandom.

 

[jobberone]

Alcohol addiction is more prevalent and creates more problems in the long run physically, emotionally, and financially. The cost of alcohol addiction costs the economy billions each year.

I consider narcotic addiction to be more dangerous in the long run. It takes a lot of work to directly kill yourself with alcohol in one sitting. It is very common with narcotics. And children get into narcotics more readily than alcohol with more serious morbidity and mortality.

So the consequences are different enough.

Needless to say both are not healthy in many ways.

 

[Dodger12]

You can say this as a fact.

Both can be abused enough to cause a person and others round them problems.

Both can cause physical problems, financial problems, legal problems and social problems.

They can be compared as drugs that can change your mental and physical ability while abusing them.

Now both can be taken within context and not cause problems. But I am talking about Abuse...not just casual beers here or there or having to take pain pills for medical reasons while following your doctors orders.

And even under controlled situations, it might not make a difference to someone who is addicted to the pills or to alcohol as both would be bad for that person.

But most of this is obvious.

The addictive properties of opioids, coupled with the ease by which people obtain them from unethical practitioners makes the opioid crisis far different than alcohol. The matter is made worse when a "good" practitioner prescribes opiates for relatively minor surgical procedures which can lead to addiction by an otherwise "normal" individual.

Opiate addiction is on a whole different level. I'm not minimizing alcoholism, but overcoming an opiate addiction is rarely done by attending anonymous meetings or by using support groups. Tack on the rate of overdose deaths and it's just a whole different issue.

 

[Dodger12]

I hear your point, but outside of the higher addictive nature of opiates the only difference preventing the comparison is mainly availability; being legal can find it anywhere and with no limits on quantity. Hardcore alcoholics have violent withdrawals just the same as opiate addicts depending on longevity of abuse/addiction, etc. AA and recovery is widely embraced, but that's not the case with medical drug treatment unless you can afford it, etc.

I hear you Star but that's a pretty big difference. We have age restrictions on obtaining alcohol but not opiates. A doctor can prescribe an opiate to an 18 year old who may have no idea of the consequences. Most of these folks who are hooked on heroin started with opiates. A "regular" drinker may not be an alcoholic or lead to alcoholism but a regular user of opiates will almost certainly get hooked and then it's all over from there. Recovery is an uphill battle and death a very real possibility.

 

[Nirvana]

It's amazing how many dead beats come into where I work every day. It's getting worse. They live off food cards, theft, turning tricks, and you name it. Dirt bags that made poor choices.

 

[JoeKing]

It's amazing how many dead beats come into where I work every day. It's getting worse. They live off food cards, theft, turning tricks, and you name it. Dirt bags that made poor choices.

Where do you work?

 

[BigStar]

I hear you Star but that's a pretty big difference. We have age restrictions on obtaining alcohol but not opiates. A doctor can prescribe an opiate to an 18 year old who may have no idea of the consequences. Most of these folks who are hooked on heroin started with opiates. A "regular" drinker may not be an alcoholic or lead to alcoholism but a regular user of opiates will almost certainly get hooked and then it's all over from there. Recovery is an uphill battle and death a very real possibility.

That is true and I shouldn't have minimized the impact of the drug addiction v alcoholic development into addiction but would say the "addictive gene" is surely in play in regards to which way you go if you start with either substance. You're correct that in moderation most handle alcohol with no issues where opiate use over a period of time (no matter the initial dosage for the most part) will create a much stronger dependence and the likelihood of advancing to heroin once not affordable/attainable.

I do acknowledge those medical stories are true as well but the pill factories are the main culprit (FLA Docs flooding the market; funneled mainly to WV/KY in 2000s; the hillbilly heroin BP mentioned and now spread across the country). In my experience, most are taking pills fully knowing the reason initially and it's solely for the high instead of the medical doctor story I hear a lot in the news.

 

[Ranching]

It doesnt have to be the scenario you described to fit into the scenario I described.

If you want to hammer some drugs on friday night and go drop the kids off at grandma and grandpa's and have a will that handles your kids and possessions if you die...then have at it.

Harm is not some magical huge idea...it has to specifically be harming someone's physical self or their physical possessions.

Where did the drugs come from and how many people suffered to get them there.

 

[Ranching]

Where do you work?

Maybe he works at the CowboyZone. Lol

 

[Ranching]

I dont use drugs or alcohol; never have, never will.

But I recognize the right of individuals to use both and destroy themselves with it if they want.

To complain about the drugs side but then say that instead of doing hard drugs, just use alcohol instead...thats ridiculous. They're the same things. So if one wants to be consistent, then the stance on both substances should be the same. Not different.

I have a niece that was murdered by two idiots that broke into her apartment looking for drugs. They had the wrong apartment. Three days after her college graduation.

 

[Melonfeud]

That is true and I shouldn't have minimized the impact of the drug addiction v alcoholic development into addiction but would say the "addictive gene" is surely in play in regards to which way you go if you start with either substance. You're correct that in moderation most handle alcohol with no issues where opiate use over a period of time (no matter the initial dosage for the most part) will create a much stronger dependence and the likelihood of advancing to heroin once not affordable/attainable.

I do acknowledge those medical stories are true as well but the pill factories are the main culprit (FLA Docs flooding the market; funneled mainly to WV/KY in 2000s; the hillbilly heroin BP mentioned and now spread across the country). In my experience, most are taking pills fully knowing the reason initially and it's solely for the high instead of the medical doctor story I hear a lot in the news.

I picked up " addictive gene" and it triggered my reply, friend.
I don't know if it is considered one and the same as " addictive personality" but I know I've pretty much got that one stamped across my forehead, things I like I'll try them twice or several hundred times,I feel as in all things the term " moderation" is essential in dealing with the compulsive impulses , and a careful study of the whole risk vs.reward aspect (for me) the kick/thrill loses it's initial euphoria/fun and (for me)reading the signposts that read 'dead end' on that road weather it's ramping motocross dirt bikes or dabbling on the dark side of drugs (for me anyway) in time to pump the brakes on the dumbsh*t and stop doing 'those' things,although I've never slammed the horse the people/friends I know who have are on methadone and probably my better friend from that small handful of folks I've known still says to this day " I'd still jump over three gorgeous naked virgin Marys for one slam of China white",,, after hearing him tell me that I've never had the desire to mess with anything like that ,that could obviously re-route a man's basic hard wiring schematics.
I've been 'another friend of Bill' ,a 12 stepper,and chip flipper in the past,also.
In summary I guess the gist of my blathering boils down to the phrase " priorities in life" as I can understand the one dudes view in the O.P.'s news article where he said just leave them lay where they were.

 

[Rockport]

Good Grief.

You gotta be kidding me with that post...I am being serious...are you just trying to make a bizarre post to mess with me as a joke?

You just described the very thing I was talking about with some people who cannot control themselves and therefore hurt others vs your original post that it is ok for someone to just drop off the kids at grannies and go hammer some drugs being ok.

I made NO distinction that Alcohol was ok vs other Drugs being bad. That argument is only in your head.

I said if they were responsible and just blowing off some steam with a few drinks and you turned that into some bizarre argument that goes against your own argument initially to counter my argument that I never made.

WOW! and you have the nerve to say cognitive dissonance.

Pretty sensitive aren't you?