The West Virginia Overdose Epidemic

[Eric_Boyer]

to escape addiction you need to want to escape addiction, and that usually only happens when you hit rock bottom. each person's rock bottom is different, but many never reach their version of rock bottom as we have a social safety net preventing them from reaching it.

I have seen many times where families realize their loved ones are beyond their help, and wash their hands of it hoping jail or some other non life ending moment will snap them out of it but decades go by as they resort to crime and financial programs to allow them to stay alive while being hopelessly addicted and useless to themselves and others

 

[arglebargle]

A new Prohibition. It worked so well last time....

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Agreed MW
All these issues are important in themselves but are in many ways a symptom of larger problems

Lack of jobs, lack of education, lack of values and religion, the breakdown of the family unit, self esteem all tie into it

We have spent almost 2 generations ad the dominant power in the world with our population largely insulated from the world, each person happy in their little cocoon. That won't work anymore. The world is shrinking and the general populace in Europe and Asia is much more engaged and understands global trends much much better than we do. Their children are expected to pick careers of the future while we are looking backward. If we continue this trend I have no doubt that many countries like china and India will overtake us in the next 50 years.

The government is so partisan that it cannot see further than its nose and is completely sold out to special interest on both sides so nothing really gets done

We cannot continue to have a population that votes based on gun control and coal jobs and expect a government that prioritizes the future

The world has moved on and we are still stuck in the past

Some of this I agree with... Some I do not.

I'll blame the macro (government) view for some.

But I'm not going to give a pass to a lack of individual self-discipline and non-willingness to take charge of one's own life either.

China is a world leader now and will continue to be... But they have their own issues.

I'm not anywhere close to thinking India is going to be a "world power" anytime soon. That country and the mindset of the populous has a variety of challenges to overcome.

 

[visionary]

Some of this I agree with... Some I do not.

I'll blame the macro (government) view for some.

But I'm not going to give a pass to a lack of individual self-discipline and non-willingness to take charge of one's own life either.

I would encourage you to walk out and talk to the average American on the street in "middle america" and I can assure you that he/she will have little idea of world geography let alone any real issues beyond the simplest cliches

BBC news is way way better than anything we gave here but we are busy listening to and believing MSNBC or Fox News. I agree with you that individual responsibility is extremely important but the self delusion is perpetuated by special interest, money, bought media and a congress and senate that do absolutely nothing that is actually in the interest of the country. They don't have the courage to stand in the face of special interest and tell the people what is actually going on and make the sweeping reforms that are actually required

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I would encourage you to walk out and talk to the average American on the street in "middle america" and I can assure you that he/she will have little idea of world geography let alone any real issues beyond the simplest cliches

BBC news is way way better than anything we gave here but we are busy listening to and believing MSNBC or Fox News. I agree with you that individual responsibility is extremely important but the self delusion is perpetuated by special interest, money, bought media and a congress and senate that do absolutely nothing that is actually in the interest of the country. They don't have the courage to stand in the face of special interest and tell the people what is actually going on and make the sweeping reforms that are actually required

You won't get a disagreement with me over the myopic view of many. Some is education related IMO, but some of it is simply due to the lack of initiative in the individual.

 

[BigStar]

I would encourage you to walk out and talk to the average American on the street in "middle america" and I can assure you that he/she will have little idea of world geography let alone any real issues beyond the simplest cliches

BBC news is way way better than anything we gave here but we are busy listening to and believing MSNBC or Fox News. I agree with you that individual responsibility is extremely important but the self delusion is perpetuated by special interest, money, bought media and a congress and senate that do absolutely nothing that is actually in the interest of the country. They don't have the courage to stand in the face of special interest and tell the people what is actually going on and make the sweeping reforms that are actually required

There are depressed people, and then there are depressed societies/towns you are referencing. A lot of MW/Rust Belt/Rural areas lack the appropriate job opportunities for young people to feel they can advance economically and even voting against your own interest in some cases.

ODs are much more prevalent in these regions for this reason as well in denying the OD drug narconon to medical responders and the use of suboxone over "Just Say No" during post withdrawal recovery to eventually revert back to living a normal, obtaining a stable job, and live life wo the addiction consuming you as it was prior. Heroin use was regressing for years prior to oxy even in the inner cities.

 

[visionary]

There are depressed people, and then there are depressed societies/towns you are referencing. A lot of MW/Rust Belt/Rural areas lack the appropriate job opportunities for young people to feel they can advance economically; voting against your own interest is the first thing that comes to mind and is just one of the many reasons it so much more prevalent in these regions; heroin use was regressing for years prior to oxy even in the inner cities.

Very valid points

 

[visionary]

There are depressed people, and then there are depressed societies/towns you are referencing. A lot of MW/Rust Belt/Rural areas lack the appropriate job opportunities for young people to feel they can advance economically and even voting against your own interest in some cases.

ODs are much more prevalent in these regions for this reason as well in denying the OD drug narconon to medical responders and the use of suboxone over "Just Say No" during post withdrawal recovery to eventually revert back to living a normal, obtaining a stable job, and live life wo the addiction consuming you as it was prior. Heroin use was regressing for years prior to oxy even in the inner cities.

Agreed
Education is key as is indidual initiative as MW said
Young people have to leave their comfort zone and get educated

 

[Melonfeud]

Agreed.

We've never had so much "stuff". Even those living below the poverty live a much better life and have access to much more than those living in poverty just 50 years ago.

And even though we have all this "stuff" we're unhappy and unfulfilled which leads to boredom, self esteem issues and looking for anything that can make us feel better about ourselves (like drugs).

Boredom is #1 answer on my board, just the mere thought of collecting roadside refuse/trash while clad in uni-sex orange colored clothes should be motivation enough to avoid/stop doing certain things.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Boredom is #1 answer on my board, just the mere thought of collecting roadside refuse/trash while clad in uni-sex orange colored clothes should be motivation enough to avoid/stop doing certain things.

I think boredom is a huge part of it.

Study gangs for a little bit and the participants quite often say they do what they do because they're bored.

 

[Ranching]

I think boredom is a huge part of it.

Study gangs for a little bit and the participants quite often say they do what they do because they're bored.

Bored and no family unity. Most young gang members are recruited because they don't have a stable home life and no one to provide proper direction.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

A will transfers physical oversight authority upon the will makers death.

Think about it like this...if the parents are such that they're willing to get blitzed out of their mind on some drug and risk death...is that who should be raising a child anyhow?

A horrific parent and no parent are pretty much the same thing. I dont view them any differently.

I think we all understand what a will is but it doesn't transfer authority of children. That's not how a will works, so far as I know. It may work differently in different states perhaps?

Either way, the entire premise of the parents getting blitzed and leaving children with grand parents, for all you know, the grand parents were just as bad. For all we know, that's how the parents learned the behavior. I'm sorry, I see no validity to that line of thought.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

from natural law

Natural Law?

noun: natural law; plural noun: natural laws

1. 1.
   a body of unchanging moral principles regarded as a basis for all human conduct.
2. 2.
   an observable law relating to natural phenomena.

How does that fit in here?

 

[Eric_Boyer]

Natural Law?

noun: natural law; plural noun: natural laws

1. 1.
   a body of unchanging moral principles regarded as a basis for all human conduct.
2. 2.
   an observable law relating to natural phenomena.

How does that fit in here?

it fits because the sole purpose of (our) government is to defend the natural law.

when this government denies, rather then defends this, is no longer lawful and does not have my consent. I personally nullify all such illegal laws - and hope enough citizens exist with the sense to do the same.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

it fits because the sole purpose of (our) government is to defend the natural law.

when this government denies, rather then defends this, is no longer lawful and does not have my consent. I personally nullify all such illegal laws - and hope enough citizens exist with the sense to do the same.

Where are you getting this from? The idea that our government's sole purpose is to defend "Natural Law"?

Consent is not required by every individual citizen, BTW. Many, many things happen that I do not agree with, yet they still happen. In this case, I am very happy that enough citizens are not in support of Parents being able to drop off their kids at Mom and Dads and go get high.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

Where are you getting this from? The idea that our government's sole purpose is to defend "Natural Law"?


Consent is not required by every individual citizen, BTW. Many, many things happen that I do not agree with, yet they still happen. In this case, I am very happy that enough citizens are not in support of Parents being able to drop off their kids at Mom and Dads and go get high.

I get it from the many writings centered around the explanation of the constitution in the Federalist papers.

You can also see this intent in the letter written to the king of England when we told him to go **** himself.

Yes, many people get very happy when they are afforded the improper power to impede others rights. History is full of such things, and they rarely end well

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I get it from the many writings centered around the explanation of the constitution in the Federalist papers.

You can also see this intent in the letter written to the king of England when we told him to go **** himself.

Yes, many people get very happy when they are afforded the improper power to impede others rights. History is full of such things, and they rarely end well

This is fine but do you see it in the Law? This is really all that matters Eric. There are many things that existed some 200 years ago that are no longer lawful. One of the good ones is the inability to just leave your kids at your parents house while you get high. Of course, that is just my opinion (not the Lawful part though).

 

[Eric_Boyer]

This is fine but do you see it in the Law? This is really all that matters Eric. There are many things that existed some 200 years ago that are no longer lawful. One of the good ones is the inability to just leave your kids at your parents house while you get high. Of course, that is just my opinion (not the Lawful part though).

Yes, I do see it in the law. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


Right there – plain as day. This is why you needed an amendment for prohibition. You also need an amendment for other drugs (alcohol is a drug).

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Yes, I do see it in the law. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


Right there – plain as day. This is why you needed an amendment for prohibition. You also need an amendment for other drugs (alcohol is a drug).

All of what you say, about alcohol, may or may not be true but I am telling you right here, right now, it is not legal for people to drop there kids of with their parents and go get high. Nowhere, is that supported. Not in the Constitution or any State Laws. That is neglect and endangerment and no amount of power delegated or otherwise allow for that. So plain as day, it may be in your eyes but legal, it is not.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

All of what you say, about alcohol, may or may not be true but I am telling you right here, right now, it is not legal for people to drop there kids of with their parents and go get high. Nowhere, is that supported. Not in the Constitution or any State Laws. That is neglect and endangerment and no amount of power delegated or otherwise allow for that. So plain as day, it may be in your eyes but legal, it is not.

being high is completely legal. the laws on the books deal with possession - as in what is in your pockets, not what is in your blood stream.

you have public intox or dui laws, but that is a seperate issue.

being high as a kite is completely legal.