The Zeke Conundrum

[blueblood70]

Here's where you are making assumptions. i never said "*I* make excuses for Barry Sanders. MANY PEOPLE SURELY DO! In fact if you care to read and have the ability to put two and two together...you can see where I said barry Sanders O-line wasn't as bad as people make it out to be. I don't give a rat's ax what Barry Sanders says about it. Or rather...what you claim barry said. He had two all pro/pro bowlers. There's some good blocking in there somewhere!

I wasn't trying to claim Barry had the best O-line in the history of the NFL...I said it was better than what Zeke had last year. I dare you to prove that one wrong...like you seem to be interested in.

You've proven here...that you have ZERO...NONE...NADA interest in discussion. You are ONLY looking for "gotcha" moments....usually when there isn't any such thing you just make one up in your head, argue it, then claim your self the (condescending) winner.

I never claimed EVER...to be some kind of expert. Such as yourself, of course. I have made very simple, and obvious, statements of opinion. Which you should at least grudgingly agree there *could* be some merit to, except your silly ego will not admit anything that doesn't fit your hating narrative. Especially at this juncture...arguing about it for ...literally...days. I'd say that's pretty dam dumb on both our parts.

So here we go: Zeke sucks and had a perfectly great O-line and QB last year (everyone agreed that QB last year was a superb threat)....any RB on ANY team that can only get 1350 yards need fired. Any player who has one down year is in a serious decline and needs fired. Any player that has an historic rookie year, better dam well keep upticking those yards or else.

There...now we can be friends.

give it up hes an obvious hater but stepped up to super hater, he wont stop replying with nonsense and grasping desperation straws to try and make his point..hes failing..

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

lol were you wearing your zeke jersey while you wrote this drivel? So he actually needs more touches? He's not Emmitt or Barry, he never was never will be. Is it the coaches fault he can't break a run longer than 25 yards. This team needs a committee at RB, not some schmo letting his inflated and ridiculous contract dictate his touches. It's a joke and that joke will just continue as long as he's here. His "greatness" is laughable at this point.

If you think zeke does not excel with "more touches" then you do NOT know football. All great backs want more carries...later in the game. You beat up and soften the defense. You think it's me that's dumb? I will give you just ONE example...to show you how STUPID you are in your hatred that blinds you. So I am...unlike you...going to actually cite a source that PROVES my position. Call me gracious. Because it's Something you REFUSE to do....likely not because you are lazy but because you CAN'T . You CAN'T source anything that proves your hateful agenda.

Are you ready? Here we go:


"Elliott gained 67 of his 105 yards in the fourth quarter with the offense draining time off the clock. Wearing down defenses late has been a staple of Elliott's pro career, but those opportunities have been scarcer this season because the offense has faced more second-half deficits."

Source: https://www.dallascowboys.com/news/zeke-bounces-back-with-best-game-of-the-year

Please admin...if this is violation of some obscure rule....allow it. PLEASE....Allow me to show how STUPID and misled some hateful forum members are who dare call themselves fans.

Having said that...I have ALREADY gone on record as saying the coaches NEED to game plan zeke and pollard as a 1-2 punch. Not just because zeke taps out. But because they could be a formidable change of pace and style. You are wrong yet AGAIN! How can you be SO wrong in one post? It's incredible!

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

First off lets look at what your opinions that you stated as facts First it was Elliott holds the record for the most rushing yards for the season by a rookie running back which was PROVEN wrong. Then again you stated your opinion as a fact and said he has 2nd on the list but again I PROVED you wrong on that too. The you state Sanders was on a bad team yet if he hadn't retired when he did he would have ended up breaking Walter Payton's rushing record and very well would have retied the all time leader. Then you dispute everything by using last season and completely forgetting Elliott's production dropped every year after his rookie season. From 1,631 to 983 his suspension year to 1,434 to 1,357 and then finally 979 for last season which I've said i give him a pass on that because of the injuries and the defense. Don't bother to reply unless you read NFL 101 at least 5 times to make sure you understand it and then I won't bother to reply because it will just be more foolishness.
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"if he hadn't retired" you trying to showcase that as a "fact"?

You'd think even an idiot would recognize how silly that sounds. "If". You are trying to state how tenuous MY position is by saying "if".

Oh such an NFL expert...sitting here arguing on a fan message board for DAYS. You are both hilarious and pathetic.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Here's the deal folks. This gjjkoepennhoffen dude claims I'm being stupid by claiming "if GODell hadn't illicitly suspended zeke, he would have had three straight rushing titles."

By claiming "sanders would have set the record IF he hadn't retired".

These are the facts this expert is posing? To counter my opinion?

Then acting all high and mighty about it...condescending NFL expert.

Certainly....gjjkoepennhoffen...is pulling our legs and making fun. LOL....okay I get it now....good fun what a great bloke gjjkoepennhoffen is!

Off season weeks before the draft is a fun time. Not much else to do but have some fun, right?

 

[gjkoeppen]

Here's the deal folks. This gjjkoepennhoffen dude claims I'm being stupid by claiming "if GODell hadn't illicitly suspended zeke, he would have had three straight rushing titles."

By claiming "sanders would have set the record IF he hadn't retired".

These are the facts this expert is posing? To counter my opinion?

Then acting all high and mighty about it...condescending NFL expert.

Certainly....gjjkoepennhoffen...is pulling our legs and making fun. LOL....okay I get it now....good fun what a great bloke gjjkoepennhoffen is!

Off season weeks before the draft is a fun time. Not much else to do but have some fun, right?

Now here's what this whatever he is has done. He stated something as a fact and when proven wrong he then changed what he was stating and when he was again proven wrong then he claims it was just his opinion , but opinion or not they were proven wrong even though he didn't write them like an opinion, but as a fact by capitalizing it. His statement was Elliott is the record holder of the most rushing yards as a rookie and I proved him wrong because Eric Dickerson holds that record. Then he changed his statement to Elliott was 2nd on that list and I proved him wrong again with George Rodgers is 2nd on that list. Now here comes some really funny stuff about using IF. He brought up Sanders and said Sanders was on a bad team and I replied that had Sanders not retired be would have become the NFL career leader in rushing because at the time he was ahead of Emmitt in career rushing yards and only a little over 1000 yards behind then record holder Walter Payton. Now just about EVERY sportswriter and announcer at that time said Sanders retired prematurely based on the fact that just 2 seasons before Sanders became one of just 3 players at that time to rush for 2000 or more yards in a season and his last season gained more yards than Emmitt. did that season. Now here's the funny part. I was wrong to use IF but he is using the IF by claiming IF Elliott wasn't suspended he would have had another rushing title for 2017. Now at no time did I say that wasn't a possibility and it may have happened, but the facts are he was suspended and he didn't win another rushing title just like it is a fact that Sanders never did break Payton's record. We both used IF but it's only OK for him to use IF. This all started when I replied to one of his comments where I said that Elliott's production has dropped every year since his rookie season and supported it by listing Elliott's rushing yardage for each year. And that's when the Elliott holds the record for most rushing yards as a rookie started. and then changed to 2nd on the list started and both times proven wrong. I just think every one should get the entire story and not just what what's his face is claiming.
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[SteveTheCowboy]

Now here's what this whatever he is has done. He stated something as a fact and when proven wrong he then changed what he was stating and when he was again proven wrong then he claims it was just his opinion , but opinion or not they were proven wrong even though he didn't write them like an opinion, but as a fact by capitalizing it. His statement was Elliott is the record holder of the most rushing yards as a rookie and I proved him wrong because Eric Dickerson holds that record. Then he changed his statement to Elliott was 2nd on that list and I proved him wrong again with George Rodgers is 2nd on that list. Now here comes some really funny stuff about using IF. He brought up Sanders and said Sanders was on a bad team and I replied that had Sanders not retired be would have become the NFL career leader in rushing because at the time he was ahead of Emmitt in career rushing yards and only a little over 1000 yards behind then record holder Walter Payton. Now just about EVERY sportswriter and announcer at that time said Sanders retired prematurely based on the fact that just 2 seasons before Sanders became one of just 3 players at that time to rush for 2000 or more yards in a season and his last season gained more yards than Emmitt. did that season. Now here's the funny part. I was wrong to use IF but he is using the IF by claiming IF Elliott wasn't suspended he would have had another rushing title for 2017. Now at no time did I say that wasn't a possibility and it may have happened, but the facts are he was suspended and he didn't win another rushing title just like it is a fact that Sanders never did break Payton's record. We both used IF but it's only OK for him to use IF. This all started when I replied to one of his comments where I said that Elliott's production has dropped every year since his rookie season and supported it by listing Elliott's rushing yardage for each year. And that's when the Elliott holds the record for most rushing yards as a rookie started. and then changed to 2nd on the list started and both times proven wrong. I just think every one should get the entire story and not just what what's his face is claiming.
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My source:
https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/arti...ing_back_seasons_records/s1__20856262#slide_4


This is where I proved you wrong. You claim I "lied". If this source is wrong...fine. But I didn't lie as you claim. You're done. Toast. End of story.

 

[SixFiveCowboy]

Is there a running back that wouldn’t do better with improvements in the O line? He sat out with two years left on his contract until he was paid as the top RB in the league but he’s nowhere close to the top RB in the league unless he has a top 5-10 O line which some of us said would happen years ago. A great O line has masked his deficiencies most of his career and without that O line he’s been exposed as being average at best.

There are several other RB’s in this league that would have had equivalent or better stats had they been in his same position and there are still several RB’s in this league that have had just as bad, or worse O lines, that put up better or equivalent stats to what he did last year. Whenever myself or others said zeke was a product of the O line, not the other way around, we were laughed it and told he was a “generational” talent and “elite”. Well we all saw how “elite” and “generational” he was last year without that O line. He supposedly carried this team and would continue to do so but now he gets the O line excuse when no other RB he was compared to his first 5 years ever got that excuse. How convenient.

Jerry really wet the bed by wasting the 4th overall pick on him and then crapped the bed by caving to his demands.

First off let's just stop it already some don't like Zeke cause he sat out but to sit there and say other RB's would've had similar or better stats with that make shift OL is clearly exaggerating. Every RB needs a great OL there is no one position in football that can independently shine without the other. Those are facts should Jerry had let Zeke jump the line and get his deal before Dak no I don't think so but to sit here and act like Zeke Elliot is some JAG is down right bonkers.

 

[Starforever]

So you think Ted Bundy was a pretty swell guy? What about Casey Anthony? Fine mother, I would hire her as a babysitter in a flash. I’m sure Stalin was a real gentleman and Jody Arias would be the perfect girl to bring home to mom.

I’m calling bs on claiming you don’t judge someone you unless you know them personally. Everyone forms some sort of judgement if there is enough information out there on a person. I don’t need to know a guy personally who I just saw beating his dog to know he’s a piece of trash.

Now Zeke, is Ted Bundy, or some other murderous person? Aria, you must be plastic man, because you are doing some extensive reaching. How then should you be judged?

 

[gjkoeppen]

My source:
https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/arti...ing_back_seasons_records/s1__20856262#slide_4


This is where I proved you wrong. You claim I "lied". If this source is wrong...fine. But I didn't lie as you claim. You're done. Toast. End of story.

This is really funny and this time it is ha ha funny because that is the EXACT site I was going to give you to prove that you were lying. On THAT site you'll see that Eric Dickerson as a rookie gained 1,808 yards. Proof of your first lie when you said Elliott held that record. The it shows George Rogers as a rookie gained 1,674 yards proof of your second lie when you changed it to Elliott was 2nd in yards as a rookie. What else this proves is you have a EXTREMELY bad problem with reading and comprehension. I told you before to read NFL 101 but now I think you need to go back to grade school and learn how to read.

Anyone else that cares to look at this you will see that they are not arranged in any particular order and Dickerson is the 1st one and Rogers is the 22nd player listed but when you read at how many yards they gained as rookies you will see that both gained more than Elliott.
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[aria]

First off let's just stop it already some don't like Zeke cause he sat out but to sit there and say other RB's would've had similar or better stats with that make shift OL is clearly exaggerating. Every RB needs a great OL there is no one position in football that can independently shine without the other. Those are facts should Jerry had let Zeke jump the line and get his deal before Dak no I don't think so but to sit here and act like Zeke Elliot is some JAG is down right bonkers.

Really? How did Barkley smoke zeke in several statistical categories in 2017 (even if you take into account averages due to zekes suspension) and that was behind a worse O line than what zeke had last year?

Take off your blue shaded glasses and look at zeke’s stats last year, they were average to below average. It’s not clearly exaggerating to say other RB’s would have had equal or better stats, zeke has always varied from slightly above average to below average in several statistical categories that have been masked by the O line. He’s been below average in yards after contact, yards after catch, yards from scrimmage, broken tackles...the list goes on, and that was with a top 10 O line. So to say that other RB’s would have done better last year is hardly an exaggeration.

BTW, Barry Sanders didn’t have a great O line and there were plenty of RB’s in 2019, 2018, and 2017 that didn’t have near as good O lines as zeke but managed to out up better ypc and other individual stats than he did.

 

[SixFiveCowboy]

Really? How did Barkley smoke zeke in several statistical categories in 2017 (even if you take into account averages due to zekes suspension) and that was behind a worse O line than what zeke had last year?

Take off your blue shaded glasses and look at zeke’s stats last year, they were average to below average. It’s not clearly exaggerating to say other RB’s would have had equal or better stats, zeke has always varied from slightly above average to below average in several statistical categories that have been masked by the O line. He’s been below average in yards after contact, yards after catch, yards from scrimmage, broken tackles...the list goes on, and that was with a top 10 O line. So to say that other RB’s would have done better last year is hardly an exaggeration.

BTW, Barry Sanders didn’t have a great O line and there were plenty of RB’s in 2019, 2018, and 2017 that didn’t have near as good O lines as zeke but managed to out up better ypc and other individual stats than he did.

Tell you what bro I'll tend to lean towards the guys that actually play the game and every year he's been in this league players in the league as well as people in the front offices consider him one of the best backs in the league. Zeke performing the way he has with his OLine being injured in each of those seasons you mentioned further proves my point, one year he loses the captain of the OL in Fredrick forced to play with a serviceable backup in Looney still performed well. Then has a rookie LG come in who has admitted he was not strong enough at the point of attack still reached a 1000, then this past year come on guy. You're either from Michigan or Zeke took your girl because you throwing out Barry Sanders doesn't make what you're saying any more believable. There plenty of teams that wish they had a Zeke Elliot in their back field he's a superstar bro so hate if you must but you sounding off the handle a bit.

 

[Starforever]

Really? How did Barkley smoke zeke in several statistical categories in 2017 (even if you take into account averages due to zekes suspension) and that was behind a worse O line than what zeke had last year?

Take off your blue shaded glasses and look at zeke’s stats last year, they were average to below average. It’s not clearly exaggerating to say other RB’s would have had equal or better stats, zeke has always varied from slightly above average to below average in several statistical categories that have been masked by the O line. He’s been below average in yards after contact, yards after catch, yards from scrimmage, broken tackles...the list goes on, and that was with a top 10 O line. So to say that other RB’s would have done better last year is hardly an exaggeration.

BTW, Barry Sanders didn’t have a great O line and there were plenty of RB’s in 2019, 2018, and 2017 that didn’t have near as good O lines as zeke but managed to out up better ypc and other individual stats than he did.

Sanders, had pro bowlers blocking for him.

 

[aria]

Now Zeke, is Ted Bundy, or some other murderous person? Aria, you must be plastic man, because you are doing some extensive reaching. How then should you be judged?

Not at all but you said and I quote

“I will never judge a man”

and

“I don't judge anyone, if I don't know them. I only see what is provided, so basing an opinion on that, would be ridiculous.”

So where exactly do you draw the line? zeke has done more than enough for myself and plenty of other people to judge his character based on HIS own actions and most people outside of Cowboys fans (even though more and more have changed their minds as well) have the same opinion of him as I do and none of them are good or flattering.

Diva? Check
Entitled? Check
Bully? Check
Over rated? Check (remember how just a year ago he tweeted “put respect by my name” and then he follows it up with a piss poor season? That’s because a lot of people didn’t respect him as running back because they knew the O line was the main reason for the success he’s had his entire career and last year proved it. Hilarious that his timing came back to bite him and prove his naysayers right)
Punk? Check
Selfish? Check
Disrespectful? Check
Idiot? Check (who does the things he did WHILE being investigated for DV against a woman whether he was innocent or not? Who does the things he did AFTER being suspended for DV against a woman whether innocent or not)

Anyways, I’ll be eagerly awaiting your answer of when you start judging someone even though you said you don’t unless you know them personally. If you’re single, would you buy Casey Anthony a drink or let her babysit your kids if you had a conversation with her and she seemed nice? I sure as hell wouldn’t but I do judge some people based on what I see or know without knowing them personally because I’m normal (in that regard only )

 

[aria]

Tell you what bro I'll tend to lean towards the guys that actually play the game and every year he's been in this league players in the league as well as people in the front offices consider him one of the best backs in the league. Zeke performing the way he has with his OLine being injured in each of those seasons you mentioned further proves my point, one year he loses the captain of the OL in Fredrick forced to play with a serviceable backup in Looney still performed well. Then has a rookie LG come in who has admitted he was not strong enough at the point of attack still reached a 1000, then this past year come on guy. You're either from Michigan or Zeke took your girl because you throwing out Barry Sanders doesn't make what you're saying any more believable. There plenty of teams that wish they had a Zeke Elliot in their back field he's a superstar bro so hate if you must but you sounding off the handle a bit.

So in other words you have no good reply to mine which is backed up with stats and facts. Barkley didn’t have one pro bowler on his line and IMOF he had several linemen that ranked almost dead last in pressures and run blocking for their respective positions and you want to use one or two of the Cowboys who were All Pro or had won several pro bowls being out as a legitimate excuse for the “superstar” to have sub par numbers?! That’s laughable.

A rookie? A rookie? Wayne Gallman averaged .7 more yards per carry than zeke last year and he had 3 rookies on his O line, sometimes 4. He also had a 2nd year QB that led the league in turnovers the year before and he didn’t have a single true #1 WR to take the pressure off him. Actually, Cooper, Lamb and Gallup would have started over any of the Giants 3 receivers last year. Not only has zeke had a top 5-10 O line, he’s had one of the best WR trios in the league along with a top 10 QB.

There may be plenty of teams that wish they had zeke on their team at vet minimum but you wouldn’t be bale to find one team that would want him at what Jerry is paying him or anywhere close to it. A lot of zeke’s criticism comes from the fact that he has had one of the best O lines in the league his entire career until last year and he sat out with TWO years left on his contract until he was paid as the highest RB in the league EVER. That was the bar he set for himself and he failed miserably. If he were playing for a lot less and not held out with TWO years left on his contract, he wouldn’t get near the criticism. He demanded to be paid as the best but has played far from it.

I don’t recall there being a clause in his contract saying he had to have a top 5-10 O line to be the best in the league, do you? IMOF, before anyone saw the meltdown of the O line happening last year, I repeatedly said I would like to see how he would do behind the Giants O line or Jets or plenty of other bad O lines and I was told it wouldn’t matter because he was that good or “elite” or “generational”. Unfortunately that wish happened with our own team and then the same people who said the O line didn’t matter were the first to start using it as the new excuse. When Barkley (or Chubb or several other RB’s) were being compared to zeke prior to last year, they never once got the “well their O line does suck, what was he supposed to do”. Why is that?

I gave you a lot to chew on with my first reply and you didn’t address any of it. Now I gave you more, take your time and lets have a good debate backed up by facts and stats, not you deflecting my points (based on stats) because you don’t agree with them. As your boy zeke said “women lie, men lie, stats don’t lie”. That was after his tweet last year to “put respect by my name”. Well he’s not right often but he was right here, stats don’t lie and last year shows exactly what he is without a top 5-10 O line and it’s not impressive by any means.

 

[robertfchew]

I wonder what zeke will look like without 4th string lineman in front of him? I'm not his biggest fan anymore but the ol was a joke last season. Derek Henry wouldnt have done squat with 4th string blockers either.

 

[robertfchew]

Not at all but you said and I quote

“I will never judge a man”

and

“I don't judge anyone, if I don't know them. I only see what is provided, so basing an opinion on that, would be ridiculous.”

So where exactly do you draw the line? zeke has done more than enough for myself and plenty of other people to judge his character based on HIS own actions and most people outside of Cowboys fans (even though more and more have changed their minds as well) have the same opinion of him as I do and none of them are good or flattering.

Diva? Check
Entitled? Check
Bully? Check
Over rated? Check (remember how just a year ago he tweeted “put respect by my name” and then he follows it up with a piss poor season? That’s because a lot of people didn’t respect him as running back because they knew the O line was the main reason for the success he’s had his entire career and last year proved it. Hilarious that his timing came back to bite him and prove his naysayers right)
Punk? Check
Selfish? Check
Disrespectful? Check
Idiot? Check (who does the things he did WHILE being investigated for DV against a woman whether he was innocent or not? Who does the things he did AFTER being suspended for DV against a woman whether innocent or not)

Anyways, I’ll be eagerly awaiting your answer of when you start judging someone even though you said you don’t unless you know them personally. If you’re single, would you buy Casey Anthony a drink or let her babysit your kids if you had a conversation with her and she seemed nice? I sure as hell wouldn’t but I do judge some people based on what I see or know without knowing them personally because I’m normal (in that regard only )

there was no dv. the woman is on text asking people to bs for her. Zeke got more punishment for a proven bs accusation than Watson is getting for 20+ accusations. We are in a time where everyone is more sensitive to this stuff yet the nfl still won't act.

 

[robertfchew]

Now explain why we need a $90 million tailback in order to "run the ball" well. Seems to me if anything, the OL is more important to the running game than the TB. I mean you, yourself, have tried to excuse part of Zeke's problems last year on not having a good OL ahead of him. And, let's be honest, Elliott is basically a one trick pony at this point. He's not explosive, he's not a home run threat like a McCaffery or Barkley.

And Travis Etienne will be playing on a rookie contract that won't be pricey. It's when he gets to his second contract is where I'd probably cut bait. It just doesn't make much sense to tie that much cap space into a position like TB. The Browns had arguably one of the best running games in football and Chubb and Hunt had a combined cap hit of around $6 million in 2020. Zeke was over $10 million.

he also hasn't missed seasons due to injury.

 

[aria]

Sanders, had pro bowlers blocking for him.

How many did he have compared to Emmitt? Whose overall line was superior to the other?

 

[aria]

there was no dv. the woman is on text asking people to bs for her. Zeke got more punishment for a proven bs accusation than Watson is getting for 20+ accusations. We are in a time where everyone is more sensitive to this stuff yet the nfl still won't act.

Did I ever say he was guilty? And you have zero idea what will happen to Watson.

 

[aria]

he also hasn't missed seasons due to injury.

No, he just takes himself out of games on critical downs. You can also go RB by committee for much cheaper and get more production then zeke because you’ll be relying more often on 2-3 guys, not one who is tapping out for a breather after getting a 5 yard run.