The Zeke Conundrum

[aria]

I wonder what zeke will look like without 4th string lineman in front of him? I'm not his biggest fan anymore but the ol was a joke last season. Derek Henry wouldnt have done squat with 4th string blockers either.

Huh, than why did Dalvin Cook get over 500 more total yards, averaged 1 yard more per carry and had a long run of 70 (compared to zekes 31) behind an O line that ranked 1 better than the Cowboys? You would think the guy who demanded to be paid as the best, and demanded respect, would be the one with the better numbers.

Why did a career back up in Wayne Gallman average more yards per carry than zeke behind an O line ranked worse than Dallas last year?

Why did Melvin Gordon and James Robinson do much better than zeke behind O lines that were comparable to Dallas?

Some of you guys never run out of excuses, even when the evidence is provided for you that contradicts your very argument.

 

[SixFiveCowboy]

So in other words you have no good reply to mine which is backed up with stats and facts. Barkley didn’t have one pro bowler on his line and IMOF he had several linemen that ranked almost dead last in pressures and run blocking for their respective positions and you want to use one or two of the Cowboys who were All Pro or had won several pro bowls being out as a legitimate excuse for the “superstar” to have sub par numbers?! That’s laughable.

A rookie? A rookie? Wayne Gallman averaged .7 more yards per carry than zeke last year and he had 3 rookies on his O line, sometimes 4. He also had a 2nd year QB that led the league in turnovers the year before and he didn’t have a single true #1 WR to take the pressure off him. Actually, Cooper, Lamb and Gallup would have started over any of the Giants 3 receivers last year. Not only has zeke had a top 5-10 O line, he’s had one of the best WR trios in the league along with a top 10 QB.

There may be plenty of teams that wish they had zeke on their team at vet minimum but you wouldn’t be bale to find one team that would want him at what Jerry is paying him or anywhere close to it. A lot of zeke’s criticism comes from the fact that he has had one of the best O lines in the league his entire career until last year and he sat out with TWO years left on his contract until he was paid as the highest RB in the league EVER. That was the bar he set for himself and he failed miserably. If he were playing for a lot less and not held out with TWO years left on his contract, he wouldn’t get near the criticism. He demanded to be paid as the best but has played far from it.

I don’t recall there being a clause in his contract saying he had to have a top 5-10 O line to be the best in the league, do you? IMOF, before anyone saw the meltdown of the O line happening last year, I repeatedly said I would like to see how he would do behind the Giants O line or Jets or plenty of other bad O lines and I was told it wouldn’t matter because he was that good or “elite” or “generational”. Unfortunately that wish happened with our own team and then the same people who said the O line didn’t matter were the first to start using it as the new excuse. When Barkley (or Chubb or several other RB’s) were being compared to zeke prior to last year, they never once got the “well their O line does suck, what was he supposed to do”. Why is that?

I gave you a lot to chew on with my first reply and you didn’t address any of it. Now I gave you more, take your time and lets have a good debate backed up by facts and stats, not you deflecting my points (based on stats) because you don’t agree with them. As your boy zeke said “women lie, men lie, stats don’t lie”. That was after his tweet last year to “put respect by my name”. Well he’s not right often but he was right here, stats don’t lie and last year shows exactly what he is without a top 5-10 O line and it’s not impressive by any means.

You have done nothing but write a mountain of words with no real facts just opinions that has been substantiated by anyone but yourself and your hate of all things Zeke. You don't have any facts that can clearly state a RB can perform with a bad OL if that was the case then why is it that our offense looked so bad with guys like Steele and 3rd stringers in there? Why is it that guys like Zach Martin get paid so much ? Exactly what you're saying is clearly bs bro give it a rest what you saying makes no sense at all.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

What is Zeke’s Conundrum?

Nachos or cheeseburgers?

 

[Starforever]

Not at all but you said and I quote

“I will never judge a man”

and

“I don't judge anyone, if I don't know them. I only see what is provided, so basing an opinion on that, would be ridiculous.”

So where exactly do you draw the line? zeke has done more than enough for myself and plenty of other people to judge his character based on HIS own actions and most people outside of Cowboys fans (even though more and more have changed their minds as well) have the same opinion of him as I do and none of them are good or flattering.

Diva? Check
Entitled? Check
Bully? Check
Over rated? Check (remember how just a year ago he tweeted “put respect by my name” and then he follows it up with a piss poor season? That’s because a lot of people didn’t respect him as running back because they knew the O line was the main reason for the success he’s had his entire career and last year proved it. Hilarious that his timing came back to bite him and prove his naysayers right)
Punk? Check
Selfish? Check
Disrespectful? Check
Idiot? Check (who does the things he did WHILE being investigated for DV against a woman whether he was innocent or not? Who does the things he did AFTER being suspended for DV against a woman whether innocent or not)

Anyways, I’ll be eagerly awaiting your answer of when you start judging someone even though you said you don’t unless you know them personally. If you’re single, would you buy Casey Anthony a drink or let her babysit your kids if you had a conversation with her and she seemed nice? I sure as hell wouldn’t but I do judge some people based on what I see or know without knowing them personally because I’m normal (in that regard only )

I see, you want me to judge him based off of your blind hate for him. I will not do it; has he made a few knucklehead choices, yes, but that does not mean he is a murderer. All of that, which you just posted, is strictly your opinion and not facts therefore; I will stand pat on what I have stated.

How many did he have compared to Emmitt? Whose overall line was superior to the other?

You are all over the place. The argument is about Ezekiel Elliott and Barry Sanders.

 

[DuncanIso]

No, he just takes himself out of games on critical downs. You can also go RB by committee for much cheaper and get more production then zeke because you’ll be relying more often on 2-3 guys, not one who is tapping out for a breather after getting a 5 yard run.

Even TPollards numbers were down.

I get the #ZekeHate. It is strong in you.

but Zeke is elite. We haven’t had a runner like him since Emmitt, and there have been a lot of RBs on the team since then.

 

[aria]

You have done nothing but write a mountain of words with no real facts just opinions that has been substantiated by anyone but yourself and your hate of all things Zeke. You don't have any facts that can clearly state a RB can perform with a bad OL if that was the case then why is it that our offense looked so bad with guys like Steele and 3rd stringers in there? Why is it that guys like Zach Martin get paid so much ? Exactly what you're saying is clearly bs bro give it a rest what you saying makes no sense at all.

So the teams I mentioned didn’t have some of the worst ranked O lines in the league according to PFF and football outsiders which break it down more comprehensively than PFF? And those RB’s didn’t put up better numbers than zeke?

Even in 2018 he wasn’t nearly as good as you claim and that was with a top 10 O line. Would you like me to post some facts for you?

My mountain of words is incomprehensible to you because your blue shaded homer glasses are so dark you can’t see the facts that destroy your argument. Where do want me start?

You said I don’t have any stats that say a RB can perform with a bad O line. Are you arguing that Barkley had a good O line his rookie season?

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-offensive-lines-from-the-2017-nfl-season

The Giants clearly had one of the worst O lines if you even saw one of their games and football outsider agrees as well. So how did Barkley do this?

https://247sports.com/nfl/new-york-...ants-all-time-records--126177397/#126177397_1

Since you have a problem comprehending too many words at once, I’ll stop here until you tell me why I’m wrong about RB’s being able to put up good numbers without great O lines. Mind you, this is in addition to the examples I already gave you about Cook, Gallman, etc that you don’t understand because numbers confuse you.

BTW, your reaction is the typical zeke homer reaction. Ignore facts with childish remarks. The rest of what I’m saying doesn’t make sense at all yet I back it up with numbers and you back it up with literally nothing except “that makes no sense at all”. There’s nothing more that I can do then post numbers that these RB’s put up but those aren’t good enough for you, lol. Soooooo typical, the only number that matters is total yards, right?

 

[aria]

I see, you want me to judge him based off of your blind hate for him. I will not do it; has he made a few knucklehead choices, yes, but that does not mean he is a murderer. All of that, which you just posted, is strictly your opinion and not facts therefore; I will stand pat on what I have stated.


You are all over the place. The argument is about Ezekiel Elliott and Barry Sanders.

Blind hate would be hate based on nothing, as I said, he’s done plenty for myself and others to form an opinion of him which would mean it’s not blind hate.

Casey Anthony wasn’t convicted of murder, she was found innocent. So are you calling her a murderer and/or making judgements about someone you don’t know or would you bring her home to mom and/or let her babysit your kids?

You keep dodging these questions. I’m quite sure, you said you don’t judge anyone you don’t know personally and I asked you where you draw the line which you have yet to answer. So either you judge people, like most of us, and are refusing to be honest about that in your blind love and support for zeke or you truly don’t judge anyone including the people I mentioned. So which is it?

 

[gjkoeppen]

Even TPollards numbers were down.

I get the #ZekeHate. It is strong in you.

but Zeke is elite. We haven’t had a runner like him since Emmitt, and there have been a lot of RBs on the team since then.

If he's the best since Emmitt why is it that Murray has a better season the Elliott's best rookie season. Murray has a 1,845 yards season. Elliott had a really good rookie year but his production started to drop every year after that. Elite RB's don't have continual drop in production every year.
.
.

 

[aria]

If he's the best since Emmitt why is it that Murray has a better season the Elliott's best rookie season. Murray has a 1,845 yards season. Elliott had a really good rookie year but his production started to drop every year after that. Elite RB's don't have continual drop in production every year.
.
.

I can already tell you the excuse “because the coaches ran him into the ground”. And if they didn’t, he wouldn’t have those fancy worthless rushing titles his fans like to brag about so much. Then you’ll get the O line excuse because he had arguably the best O line in 2016 so everything else has been inferior even though its been top 10 every year minus last year.

 

[SixFiveCowboy]

So the teams I mentioned didn’t have some of the worst ranked O lines in the league according to PFF and football outsiders which break it down more comprehensively than PFF? And those RB’s didn’t put up better numbers than zeke?

Even in 2018 he wasn’t nearly as good as you claim and that was with a top 10 O line. Would you like me to post some facts for you?

My mountain of words is incomprehensible to you because your blue shaded homer glasses are so dark you can’t see the facts that destroy your argument. Where do want me start?

You said I don’t have any stats that say a RB can perform with a bad O line. Are you arguing that Barkley had a good O line his rookie season?

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-offensive-lines-from-the-2017-nfl-season

The Giants clearly had one of the worst O lines if you even saw one of their games and football outsider agrees as well. So how did Barkley do this?

https://247sports.com/nfl/new-york-...ants-all-time-records--126177397/#126177397_1

Since you have a problem comprehending too many words at once, I’ll stop here until you tell me why I’m wrong about RB’s being able to put up good numbers without great O lines. Mind you, this is in addition to the examples I already gave you about Cook, Gallman, etc that you don’t understand because numbers confuse you.

BTW, your reaction is the typical zeke homer reaction. Ignore facts with childish remarks. The rest of what I’m saying doesn’t make sense at all yet I back it up with numbers and you back it up with literally nothing except “that makes no sense at all”. There’s nothing more that I can do then post numbers that these RB’s put up but those aren’t good enough for you, lol. Soooooo typical, the only number that matters is total yards, right?

See I comprehend quite clearly I just don't argue with people with obvious agendas since you are so hell bent on the stats Zeke only two truly down years as a rusher was 2017 in which he only played 10 games and 2020 where his entire line was decimated yet he still almost cracked a thousand yards in both those seasons. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElliEz00.htm

The fact you bringing up Gallman in this when you know we were playing with 3rd and 4th string offensive linemen while the Giants were not great on their OL they still were not playing with what was in front of Zeke by no stretch of imagination and you see Barkley didn't even make it out the season. It appears to me you have what is called the grass is greener syndrome there's been so many changes that has went on in this organization from OC's to entire coaching staffs down to bogus suspensions if you want to attack Zeke credibility by all means go ahead but trust me it's not my vision that's impaired by any stretch of imagination Zeke is a stud it's just sad people like you don't see it.

 

[aria]

See I comprehend quite clearly I just don't argue with people with obvious agendas since you are so hell bent on the stats Zeke only two truly down years as a rusher was 2017 in which he only played 10 games and 2020 where his entire line was decimated yet he still almost cracked a thousand yards in both those seasons. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElliEz00.htm

The fact you bringing up Gallman in this when you know we were playing with 3rd and 4th string offensive linemen while the Giants were not great on their OL they still were not playing with what was in front of Zeke by no stretch of imagination and you see Barkley didn't even make it out the season. It appears to me you have what is called the grass is greener syndrome there's been so many changes that has went on in this organization from OC's to entire coaching staffs down to bogus suspensions if you want to attack Zeke credibility by all means go ahead but trust me it's not my vision that's impaired by any stretch of imagination Zeke is a stud it's just sad people like you don't see it.

Still not answering any of what I asked nor have you backed up anything with stats or facts. This is why I tried taking baby steps with you and it still didn’t work. Re read my last post and lets stick to that topic which you never even addressed. You said no RB can put up good stats with a bad O line, I gave you several examples of RB’s that have and specifically provided stats for and/or rankings of what Barkley did behind one of the worst O lines in the league (along with Cook) which completely contradicts what you said about RB’s putting up good numbers behind bad O lines.

Hypothetically, even if the Giants had a better O line last year which they didn’t, it shows how unfamiliar you are with the Cowboys O line and the Giants. The Giants had a rookie LT who got better as the season went on but was horrendous for at least the first half of the season (worse than any of our starters), a rookie guard who ranked in the bottom 5 (if not dead last) of all guards in the league, a rookie center, a RG who regressed and was also towards the bottom of all guards in the league and a rotation between a RT who used to be our swing tackle (Flemming) and a rookie.

And then there’s this.
https://www.nfl.com/news/2020-s-10-best-run-blocking-teams-by-expected-rushing-yards

Now this is twice that I’ve proved you wrong with stats and facts and you’ve come back with your personal opinion or opinions of others. Stay on topic this time and keep digging, your hole is just getting deeper and deeper and just because you chose ignore the topic and change it does make you right.

 

[SixFiveCowboy]

Still not answering any of what I asked nor have you backed up anything with stats or facts. This is why I tried taking baby steps with you and it still didn’t work. Re read my last post and lets stick to that topic which you never even addressed. You said no RB can put up good stats with a bad O line, I gave you several examples of RB’s that have and specifically provided stats for and/or rankings of what Barkley did behind one of the worst O lines in the league (along with Cook) which completely contradicts what you said about RB’s putting up good numbers behind bad O lines.

Hypothetically, even if the Giants had a better O line last year which they didn’t, it shows how unfamiliar you are with the Cowboys O line and the Giants. The Giants had a rookie LT who got better as the season went on but was horrendous for at least the first half of the season (worse than any of our starters), a rookie guard who ranked in the bottom 5 (if not dead last) of all guards in the league, a rookie center, a RG who regressed and was also towards the bottom of all guards in the league and a rotation between a RT who used to be our swing tackle (Flemming) and a rookie.

And then there’s this.
https://www.nfl.com/news/2020-s-10-best-run-blocking-teams-by-expected-rushing-yards

Now this is twice that I’ve proved you wrong with stats and facts and you’ve come back with your personal opinion or opinions of others. Stay on topic this time and keep digging, your hole is just getting deeper and deeper and just because you chose ignore the topic and change it does make you right.

This is exactly why I know you're clearly just spewing non-sense, what Cowboys OL were you watching last year our OL last year was one the worst in the league fella what the heck are you talking about. I can assure if our OL was healthy then you might have a sliver of hope of proving your drivel but it clearly shows you just search articles for stats to try to prove a point. What exactly does expected rush yards clearly prove over actual stats ? Ok bro I see this is your whole schtick you enjoy the debating with useless information. I see that now, I say you think your way I'll think mine and we'll leave it at that because what I provided were actual stats not some expected or bs so we'll just see how it shakes out with our OL if they're healthy because 21 will still be the lead dog here in Dallas that you can't debate. Have a good one it's been one we just don't agree on Zeke.

 

[aria]

This is exactly why I know you're clearly just spewing non-sense, what Cowboys OL were you watching last year our OL last year was one the worst in the league fella what the heck are you talking about. I can assure if our OL was healthy then you might have a sliver of hope of proving your drivel but it clearly shows you just search articles for stats to try to prove a point. What exactly does expected rush yards clearly prove over actual stats ? Ok bro I see this is your whole schtick you enjoy the debating with useless information. I see that now, I say you think your way I'll think mine and we'll leave it at that because what I provided were actual stats not some expected or bs so we'll just see how it shakes out with our OL if they're healthy because 21 will still be the lead dog here in Dallas that you can't debate. Have a good one it's been one we just don't agree on Zeke.

Lol, as usual....it’s been a pleasure. Still didn’t address the one thing I asked you too, that RB’s can’t put up good numbers with bad O lines. You just kept deflecting and not even acknowledging the actual numbers and stats I posted to prove you wrong.

One thing we can agree on which is what you already stated “21 will still be the lead dog here in Dallas” which is why we’ll continue to be average.

*and by lead you assume you meant just RB’s because he’s already proven he’s not leading anything without the O line leading him

Have a good one, it’s been a pleasure.

 

[StuckMojo]

Zeke should have never been suspended.

 

[Big_D]

Zeke should have never been suspended.

or re-signed.

 

[Haimerej]

Huh, than why did Dalvin Cook get over 500 more total yards, averaged 1 yard more per carry and had a long run of 70 (compared to zekes 31) behind an O line that ranked 1 better than the Cowboys? You would think the guy who demanded to be paid as the best, and demanded respect, would be the one with the better numbers.

Why did a career back up in Wayne Gallman average more yards per carry than zeke behind an O line ranked worse than Dallas last year?

Why did Melvin Gordon and James Robinson do much better than zeke behind O lines that were comparable to Dallas?

Some of you guys never run out of excuses, even when the evidence is provided for you that contradicts your very argument.

I see a Zeke thread at 16 pages and think, "what's @aria up to today?" So I go to the last page and decide to jump in without full context. Here goes-

Rather than just looking at numbers, try context. What's the offensive system? Who's the QB? Are defenses focused on stopping different things when playing those teams? You know... football stuff.

Quick question- are you doing the Zeke sucks argument or the Zeke costs too much argument? Also, what you think of all the Watson stuff?

 

[JoeKing]

This is a message board. So, I can voice my opinion however I like.

Block me if ya don't wanna see it.

As long as you follow the rules.

 

[aria]

or re-signed.

Or drafted with the 4th overall pick

 

[Big_D]

Or drafted with the 4th overall pick

yup the mistakes keep piling up. This front office is just stupid.

 

[gjkoeppen]

See I comprehend quite clearly I just don't argue with people with obvious agendas since you are so hell bent on the stats Zeke only two truly down years as a rusher was 2017 in which he only played 10 games and 2020 where his entire line was decimated yet he still almost cracked a thousand yards in both those seasons. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElliEz00.htm

The fact you bringing up Gallman in this when you know we were playing with 3rd and 4th string offensive linemen while the Giants were not great on their OL they still were not playing with what was in front of Zeke by no stretch of imagination and you see Barkley didn't even make it out the season. It appears to me you have what is called the grass is greener syndrome there's been so many changes that has went on in this organization from OC's to entire coaching staffs down to bogus suspensions if you want to attack Zeke credibility by all means go ahead but trust me it's not my vision that's impaired by any stretch of imagination Zeke is a stud it's just sad people like you don't see it.

Here's s couple of things all of you that say Elliott's suspension was bogus or should have been. First in EVERY player's contract and an actual NFL rule addresses personal behavior which when Elliott was arrested for domestic violence he violated. The NFL rule is there to protect the league or shield from any negative publicity brought on from the actions of a player. As soon as Elliott got arrested he violated that rule. Then mysteriously the charges were dropped and the woman shortly there after moved into a luxury apartment that she could never have been able to afford before that incident happened. All of that publicity tarnished the shield and was cause to suspend Elliott.
.
.