These cheating refs are out of control. I’m sick of it!

[MarcusRock]

He isn't "pulled" to the ground. He's thrown/spun to the ground after Reddick grabs the back of the jersey to help toss him to the ground. He can't make a tackle that way without grabbing/using the back of the jersey. In fact, the initial grab at the front doesn't do much. Allen is still standing upright after he grabs and pulls the front and can still get a pass off (granted not a great one). It's not until Reddick grabs the jersey at the name plate that he's then able to spin and toss Allen.

I'd buy your explanation if the grab at the front was actually forcing Allen to the ground (buckling Allen) and then other hand just grabbed the back of the jersey as he was falling down, but that's not what happened. He uses the grab at the name plate to then toss/throw Allen to the ground.

His front hand isn't pulling Allen to the ground? He can't even get his hand on his back if he isn't pulling down on the front of the jersey to hold Allen in place. THAT is what mainly immobilized Allen and is fine. The back hand basically pushing the back of Allen's neck is secondary to the hand pulling him downward towards the ground. You might be right if that first hand isn't the primary, but it is. Horse collar is about pulling someone to the ground from behind so their knees buckle. That didn't happen because Allen was being spun around frontwise with the hold on the jersey and flung with an assist from his second hand. You'd have to eliminate that first hand to think about a call here. But it was there.

 

[MarcusRock]

So you are saying the Gene Steratore is wrong? lol

He was definitive in his analysis of that play in the clip you posted.

I don't care how definitive he was. All of them ignored the front hand pulling Allen to the ground. You can't pull down via the back or side by the rules in a way that buckles the knees. I didn't see where that happened because Allen was being twisted forward ..... due to that first hand pulling him down by the front.

If appealing to authority is your thing then are you saying Dean Blandino and Mike Pereira were right about Dez in Green Bay then? I mean they were, but I hear here how wrong they were and both were Lord of the Rules. That's 2 experts weighing in. Lol.

 

[Sydla]

His front hand isn't pulling Allen to the ground? He can't even get his hand on his back if he isn't pulling down on the front of the jersey to hold Allen in place. THAT is what mainly immobilized Allen and is fine. The back hand basically pushing the back of Allen's neck is secondary to the hand pulling him downward towards the ground. You might be right if that first hand isn't the primary, but it is. Horse collar is about pulling someone to the ground from behind so their knees buckle. That didn't happen because Allen was being spun around frontwise with the hold on the jersey and flung with an assist from his second hand. You'd have to eliminate that first hand to think about a call here. But it was there.

Watch the replay. After he grabs the front of the jersey, does Allen start to fall to the ground (fall forward towards Reddick pulling him down?). He really doesn't. Then Reddick grabs the name plate and uses that to then spin and toss Allen to the ground. He doesn't get actually spun until after he grabs the name plate. The front hand did little than to give him leverage to then grab the back of the jersey and start the spin/toss.

But in fairness, yeah, there isn't any real knee buckling, he just uses the name plate grab to toss Allen, so we may have found the gray area of the rule. There is no "pull" in the sense he grabbed and pulled him straight to ground, he just uses the name plate to help spin him and toss him.

 

[Ken]

I don't care how definitive he was. All of them ignored the front hand pulling Allen to the ground. You can't pull down via the back or side by the rules in a way that buckles the knees. I didn't see where that happened because Allen was being twisted forward ..... due to that first hand pulling him down by the front.

If appealing to authority is your thing then are you saying Dean Blandino and Mike Pereira were right about Dez in Green Bay then? I mean they were, but I hear here how wrong they were and both were Lord of the Rules. That's 2 experts weighing in. Lol.

First, his knees buckling has nothing to do with the call. You can get the call even without that, that is just the definitive...if it happens it is absolutely called. The fact is, his hand is in his collar and he does pull him down by it. The stretch of Allen's jersey happened BEFORE the violent whip to the ground via the collar. You can see his Jersey is stretched out before the whip.

So the prevailing "his front jersey did most of it" is false. Also it doesn't matter, he met the first criteria of the hand being in his back collar. I don't make these dumb rules up, i just want them enforced properly.

I also am disgusted with the Intentional Grounding call. You go from 3rd and goal form the 3 to 3rd and goal from the 16. Then they miss the FG.

Sorry, it is egregious officiating.

 

[Ken]

Watch the replay. After he grabs the front of the jersey, does Allen start to fall to the ground (fall forward towards Reddick pulling him down?). He really doesn't. Then Reddick grabs the name plate and uses that to then spin and toss Allen to the ground. He doesn't get actually spun until after he grabs the name plate. The front hand did little than to give him leverage to then grab the back of the jersey and start the spin/toss.

But in fairness, yeah, there isn't any real knee buckling, he just uses the name plate grab to toss Allen, so we may have found the gray area of the rule.

Exactly.

 

[MarcusRock]

Watch the replay. After he grabs the front of the jersey, does Allen start to fall to the ground (fall forward towards Reddick pulling him down?). He really doesn't. Then Reddick grabs the name plate and uses that to then spin and toss Allen to the ground. He doesn't get actually spun until after he grabs the name plate. The front hand did little than to give him leverage to then grab the back of the jersey and start the spin/toss.

But in fairness, yeah, there isn't any real knee buckling, he just uses the name plate grab to toss Allen, so we may have found the gray area of the rule. There is no "pull" in the sense he grabbed and pulled him straight to ground, he just uses the name plate to help spin him and toss him.

Reddick is pulling him to the ground from the start. The fact that he didn't finally get to the ground after the second hand arrives doesn't mean that second hand was the main thing that got him to the ground. Reddick never lets go of the front of the jersey. And again, you can't pull a guy down from behind or the side or grab the side of the shoulder pad so that the player's knee buckles. That can't happen when Allen is being spun forward. The knee buckling is what makes it a foul by definition. If there was none, as even you say, that is why it is a good no-call.

 

[MarcusRock]

First, his knees buckling has nothing to do with the call.

RULE 12 PLAYER CONDUCT​

SECTION 2 PERSONAL FOULS​

ARTICLE 16. HORSE-COLLAR TACKLE. No player shall grab the inside collar of the back or the side of the shoulder pads or​

jersey, or grab the jersey at the name plate or above, and pull the runner toward the ground. This does not apply to a runner who​

is in the pocket or in the area defined by close-line play. If his knees are buckled by the action, it is a foul, even if the runner is​

not pulled completely to the ground.​

It is literally the determining factor as to whether it is a foul or not a foul. The rest of what you wrote doesn't even have to be addressed after this ..... except you didn't answer my Dean Blandino/Mike Pereira question about them being definitive that Dez didn't catch it in Green Bay. Lol.

 

[DripTooHard]

Reddick is pulling him to the ground from the start. The fact that he didn't finally get to the ground after the second hand arrives doesn't mean that second hand was the main thing that got him to the ground. Reddick never lets go of the front of the jersey. And again, you can't pull a guy down from behind or the side or grab the side of the shoulder pad so that the player's knee buckles. That can't happen when Allen is being spun forward. The knee buckling is what makes it a foul by definition. If there was none, as even you say, that is why it is a good no-call.

Thank you Mr. Hochuli. If the uniform was non Eagle, that play gets flagged for a horse caller.

 

[Cowboys5217]

Every play in the NFL could have a penalty. The top teams seem to get the calls. It is not that the refs help the top teams but rather the weaker teams have to stretch the rules in order to compete. When they do it often enough they get penalized. I know it's ancient history when the Cowboys were a top team, you seem to have forgotten when they were they got all the calls.

My research that I am working on shows that it is not the top teams that get the calls, but a certain favored group of teams that get the calls. This is so far back up by researching a 23 year period from 2000-2023. So far it shows that teams like Green Bay and Pittsburgh get the calls while Dallas and Detroit are treated like dogs. The numbers do not even out over that time.

And no, Dallas never got the calls their way during either the 1970s or the 1990s. Some of the most notorious bad calls/no calls of the 1960s, and 1970s went against Dallas in high profile moments.

 

[MarcusRock]

Thank you Mr. Hochuli. If the uniform was non Eagle, that play gets flagged for a horse caller.

You can call me Mr. Ed.

 

[mote]

My research that I am working on shows that it is not the top teams that get the calls, but a certain favored group of teams that get the calls. This is so far back up by researching a 23 year period from 2000-2023. So far it shows that teams like Green Bay and Pittsburgh get the calls while Dallas and Detroit are treated like dogs. The numbers do not even out over that time.

And no, Dallas never got the calls their way during either the 1970s or the 1990s. Some of the most notorious bad calls/no calls of the 1960s, and 1970s went against Dallas in high profile moments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring_effect

 

[Sydla]

Reddick is pulling him to the ground from the start. The fact that he didn't finally get to the ground after the second hand arrives doesn't mean that second hand was the main thing that got him to the ground. Reddick never lets go of the front of the jersey. And again, you can't pull a guy down from behind or the side or grab the side of the shoulder pad so that the player's knee buckles. That can't happen when Allen is being spun forward. The knee buckling is what makes it a foul by definition. If there was none, as even you say, that is why it is a good no-call.

Again, where in the video does Reddick's grab at the front of the jersey pull Allen down? At no point is Allen actually falling to the ground from the pull on the front of the jersey.

And what do you mean he was "spun forward"?

 

[Ken]

RULE 12 PLAYER CONDUCT​

SECTION 2 PERSONAL FOULS​

ARTICLE 16. HORSE-COLLAR TACKLE. No player shall grab the inside collar of the back or the side of the shoulder pads or​

jersey, or grab the jersey at the name plate or above, and pull the runner toward the ground. This does not apply to a runner who​

is in the pocket or in the area defined by close-line play. If his knees are buckled by the action, it is a foul, even if the runner is​

not pulled completely to the ground.​

It is literally the determining factor as to whether it is a foul or not a foul. The rest of what you wrote doesn't even have to be addressed after this ..... except you didn't answer my Dean Blandino/Mike Pereira question about them being definitive that Dez didn't catch it in Green Bay. Lol.

Take it from someone who gets paid a lot of money to interpret rules...this is not a determining factor if it is a horsecollar or not. This is merely allowing for this to be called when it doesn't take the player to the ground.

 

[BoysFanInPhilly]

My research that I am working on shows that it is not the top teams that get the calls, but a certain favored group of teams that get the calls. This is so far back up by researching a 23 year period from 2000-2023. So far it shows that teams like Green Bay and Pittsburgh get the calls while Dallas and Detroit are treated like dogs. The numbers do not even out over that time.

And no, Dallas never got the calls their way during either the 1970s or the 1990s. Some of the most notorious bad calls/no calls of the 1960s, and 1970s went against Dallas in high profile moments.

A quick glance at the records your stats back me up. The Stealers had 1 losing season in the stretch 2000-2022 while the Cowboy had just 11 winning seasons in that time take it back to the 90's and you will find the Cowboys had less penalties.

 

[ActualCowboysFan]

Man the poor Eagles fans here just cannot handle anyone questioning their greatness. They came here because in their sad existence only the success of people with no connection to them can bring them joy and they will not accept anything less than pure adherence to their script. Questionable calls must be dismissed or else their run of greatness where they finished in second that one time won’t be viewed as a dynasty. Wild how offended they get at the entire country pointing out the obvious bias refs have had in their favor in their four biggest games.

 

[Cydios]

Man the poor Eagles fans here just cannot handle anyone questioning their greatness. They came here because in their sad existence only the success of people with no connection to them can bring them joy and they will not accept anything less than pure adherence to their script. Questionable calls must be dismissed or else their run of greatness where they finished in second that one time won’t be viewed as a dynasty. Wild how offended they get at the entire country pointing out the obvious bias refs have had in their favor in their four biggest games.

Well on a Dallas page.. no sympathy here.

 

[MarcusRock]

Again, where in the video does Reddick's grab at the front of the jersey pull Allen down? At no point is Allen actually falling to the ground from the pull on the front of the jersey.

And what do you mean he was "spun forward"?

You think he was pulling on Allen's front jersey to keep him up? Look at the replay at the 0:24 mark below. When Reddick pivots and drops his body weight to get Allen down, which hand is doing the majority of pulling towards the ground? The second hand on the back acts more like a push than any kind of pull-down. If Reddick let go of the front of the jersey, you'd have a point, but he literally never lets go of the front as he pulls downward.

For "spun forward," the force of Reddick pivoting and flinging Allen is not Allen being dragged down from behind since Allen himself is on his feet moving forward, albeit hindered, but moving forward. This is why there is no knee buckle. A horse collar in the classic sense is a defender trailing a runner and reaching out to grab the back of the jersey and pull him downward from behind. So if you are being "spun forward" you are not being pulled down from behind, and most certainly not when the front of your jersey being pulled is what takes you to the ground.

 

[MarcusRock]

Take it from someone who gets paid a lot of money to interpret rules...this is not a determining factor if it is a horsecollar or not. This is merely allowing for this to be called when it doesn't take the player to the ground.

Blandino and Pereira were highly paid I'm gathering. So they were right on Dez in Green Bay?

The knee buckling is THE determining factor in the rule whether it takes the runner to the ground or not; and it determines whether it is a foul or not. No amount of 'splaining gets around this fact. Just own up to it. The black and white rule does not lie and is in direct conflict to what you stated. Should I trust the highly paid NFL rules people or you? Lol.

 

[OmerV]

Have you seen the stuff just the fans around here post about "justice" needing to be done? But talk to the Jets fans who sued over spygate claiming they were "cheated" out of what they spent on tickets. Yes, it went to court. And yes the entertainment defense was effective and would likely smack down any other attempt. Fans will try though.

Just because someone posts something doesn't make it credible. I've seen a lot of things fans have posted around here that I wouldn't give an ounce of credibility to.

As for the Jets fan, his lawsuit was thrown out by the District Count judge, so there was no trial. That decision was appealed twice, and twice the decision to toss out the lawsuit was upheld. It was never anything more than a frivolous lawsuit

And a lawsuit on a ref's call would seem to have even less chance than that one. At least there was proof of spying in that case. In this case there is no proof of any wrongdoing. I fan being mad about a call just wont cut it for that..

 

[Ken]

Blandino and Pereira were highly paid I'm gathering. So they were right on Dez in Green Bay?

The knee buckling is THE determining factor in the rule whether it takes the runner to the ground or not; and it determines whether it is a foul or not. No amount of 'splaining gets around this fact. Just own up to it. The black and white rule does not lie and is in direct conflict to what you stated. Should I trust the highly paid NFL rules people or you? Lol.

Ok, so I guess I don't get to ignore the irrelevant Dez argument. No, they were wrong because the rule did not allow for super human ability like Dez possesses. The fact that he reached out for the goaline over the course of about 5 yards tells me it was a catch.

I am sorry that you don't understand the rule. The first sentence and the last sentence do not make sense if you we interpret it the way you suggest. I am telling you, the knee buckle, is for the situation where the runner runs through the attempted horsecollar but is able to regather and continue.