These cheating refs are out of control. I’m sick of it!

[PA Cowboy Fan]

Allen go home collared clearly in front of the ref and it wasn't called.

and then they called Allen for intentional grounding. I was livid.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

Wow, just watched a replay and that’s a textbook horse collar tackle. Dude had his hand inside the rear collar of the shoulder pad. Granted, it was off to one side but his hand was in the collar. For as much as the refs coddle a QBs balls, how the hell did they miss that?????

The Ref was looking right at him. No way he missed it.

 

[mote]

and then they called Allen for intentional grounding. I was livid.

So if I understand the conspiracy angle, the refs, being told to favor the Eagles, disregard an "obvious" horse collar tackle, which they know will be viewed negatively, and then figure, "hey, let's just go big here and compound the anger by calling a penalty on Buffalo, for an even greater effect"? Sounds plausible, right?

 

[MarcusRock]

This is after the game when NY officiating sky judge reviewed the play

And this is why you don't listen to anything the broadcasters have to say about the rules. They do not know them. And then their emotion gets into the heads of fans who are already emotional.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

So if I understand the conspiracy angle, the refs, being told to favor the Eagles, disregard an "obvious" horse collar tackle, which they know will be viewed negatively, and then figure, "hey, let's just go big here and compound the anger by calling a penalty on Buffalo, for an even greater effect"? Sounds plausible, right?

I don't care what it sounds like. I know what I saw. People draw their own conclusions.

 

[G2]

It couldn't be that refs are human and miss things for that reason, right?

It very much is and some plays are as if they are in a trance. Literally looking right at the play. I'd get fired at my job.

 

[G2]

And this is why you don't listen to anything the broadcasters have to say about the rules. They do not know them. And then their emotion gets into the heads of fans who are already emotional.

You feel it was Intentional Grounding though?

 

[MarcusRock]

If you watch the replay, he uses the back of the jersey as well to spin Allen and throw him to the ground. It was a horse collar by the definition of the rule.

NFL tends to be defensive of these calls immediately after the game and then later in the week, a team quietly gets a notice from the league office that yeah, they ***** up.

It was not a horse collar tackle by definition. The rule is about "the inside collar of the back." The QB was pulled to the ground by the front of his jersey and the second hand went on his back later to help fling him to the ground, not pull him to the ground. The front hand was doing that and the front is fine to do. Here's the play, plus another example of Reggie White doing it to Aikman at 1:57 of the second video (on Erik Williams, by the way). It is not a foul.

RULE 12 PLAYER CONDUCT​

SECTION 2 PERSONAL FOULS​

ARTICLE 16. HORSE-COLLAR TACKLE. No player shall grab the inside collar of the back or the side of the shoulder pads or​

jersey, or grab the jersey at the name plate or above, and pull the runner toward the ground. This does not apply to a runner who​

is in the pocket or in the area defined by close-line play. If his knees are buckled by the action, it is a foul, even if the runner is​

not pulled completely to the ground.​

 

[mote]

It was not a horse collar tackle by definition. The rule is about "the inside collar of the back." The QB was pulled to the ground by the front of his jersey and the second hand went on his back later to help fling him to the ground, not pull him to the ground. The front hand was doing that and the front is fine to do. Here's the play, plus another example of Reggie White doing it to Aikman at 1:57 of the second video (on Erik Williams, by the way). It is not a foul.

RULE 12 PLAYER CONDUCT​

SECTION 2 PERSONAL FOULS​

ARTICLE 16. HORSE-COLLAR TACKLE. No player shall grab the inside collar of the back or the side of the shoulder pads or​

jersey, or grab the jersey at the name plate or above, and pull the runner toward the ground. This does not apply to a runner who​

is in the pocket or in the area defined by close-line play. If his knees are buckled by the action, it is a foul, even if the runner is​

not pulled completely to the ground.​

How dare you let facts interfere with a narrative?~

 

[Sydla]

It was not a horse collar tackle by definition. The rule is about "the inside collar of the back." The QB was pulled to the ground by the front of his jersey and the second hand went on his back later to help fling him to the ground, not pull him to the ground. The front hand was doing that and the front is fine to do. Here's the play, plus another example of Reggie White doing it to Aikman at 1:57 of the second video (on Erik Williams, by the way). It is not a foul.

RULE 12 PLAYER CONDUCT​

SECTION 2 PERSONAL FOULS​

ARTICLE 16. HORSE-COLLAR TACKLE. No player shall grab the inside collar of the back or the side of the shoulder pads or​

jersey, or grab the jersey at the name plate or above, and pull the runner toward the ground. This does not apply to a runner who​

is in the pocket or in the area defined by close-line play. If his knees are buckled by the action, it is a foul, even if the runner is​

not pulled completely to the ground.​

By "definition" is also says grabbing the jersey at the name plate or above which Reddick did. And it was that grab that allowed him to spin throw Allen to the ground.

 

[NeathBlue]

The problem with people’s perception of officiating depends on what side they’re looking at it from..
A marginal call in your favour is a good call, against and it’s a bad call.
The issue isn’t what the refs on the field are calling, it’s the booth official who can see stuff the onfield refs miss and alert them to check a replay, but hasn’t the power to do it.
But careful what you wish for, the VAR system in the Premier League is destroying the game and taking all the excitement out of it… better the devil you know sometimes and just accept that human beings make mistakes.

 

[Sydla]

And this is why you don't listen to anything the broadcasters have to say about the rules. They do not know them. And then their emotion gets into the heads of fans who are already emotional.

In fairness, you'd be right if it was broadcaster making the claim. But Steratore is a former NFL official who worked in the league as an official for over a decade and only retired in 2018. So he's got a bit more clout here than just a color guy.

 

[MarcusRock]

By "definition" is also says grabbing the jersey at the name plate or above which Reddick did. And it was that grab that allowed him to spin throw Allen to the ground.

But it is not the hand that pulls Allen to the ground from the back. THAT is the definition of horse collar.

 

[MarcusRock]

In fairness, you'd be right if it was broadcaster making the claim. But Steratore is a former NFL official who worked in the league as an official for over a decade and only retired in 2018. So he's got a bit more clout here than just a color guy.

He does. But even he was wrong.

 

[Sydla]

The problem with people’s perception of officiating depends on what side they’re looking at it from..
A marginal call in your favour is a good call, against and it’s a bad call.
The issue isn’t what the refs on the field are calling, it’s the booth official who can see stuff the onfield refs miss and alert them to check a replay, but hasn’t the power to do it.
But careful what you wish for, the VAR system in the Premier League is destroying the game and taking all the excitement out of it… better the devil you know sometimes and just accept that human beings make mistakes.

I agree that going to a fully automated/reviewed system would be a disaster but I think that the league should implement a system where a coach can make one penalty challenge a game.

 

[Sydla]

But it is not the hand that pulls Allen to the ground from the back. THAT is the definition of horse collar.

He isn't "pulled" to the ground. He's thrown/spun to the ground after Reddick grabs the back of the jersey to help toss him to the ground. He can't make a tackle that way without grabbing/using the back of the jersey. In fact, the initial grab at the front doesn't do much. Allen is still standing upright after he grabs and pulls the front and can still get a pass off (granted not a great one). It's not until Reddick grabs the jersey at the name plate that he's then able to spin and toss Allen.

I'd buy your explanation if the grab at the front was actually forcing Allen to the ground (buckling Allen) and then other hand just grabbed the back of the jersey as he was falling down, but that's not what happened. He uses the grab at the name plate to then toss/throw Allen to the ground.

 

[Pola_pe_a]

That's not what I'm saying. You just took it to the extreme.

Your post.

Nothing is going to change until players, coaches, or teams start walking off the field. All it takes is one team to walk off the field mid game to get the ball rolling. So much money would be loss they would need to do something about it.

We have sport announcers, even the people in the replay booth, players, ex players, and even coaches calling out officiating. Granted the coaches beat around the bush much more.

I'm not big into the whole league is rigged conspiracy but you must be blind if you think certain games aren't influenced heavily.

So how are you not condoning quitting when things aren’t going your way?

 

[MarcusRock]

You feel it was Intentional Grounding though?

Depends. He was being contacted physically. If they weren't going to rule in the grasp/down by contact then it probably should have gone down as an incompletion. But even in the rules, it's listed as a "should not be called" and not "will not be called." It's a penalty that can be reviewed so they could have concluded that it was not even an attempt to complete but just dump the ball to avoid the loss. The pass was underhanded and also hit Reddick in the helmet first.

RULE 8 FORWARD PASS, BACKWARD PASS, FUMBLE​

SECTION 2 INTENTIONAL GROUNDING​

ARTICLE 1. DEFINITION. It is a foul for intentional grounding if a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage because of pressure​

from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion. A realistic chance of completion is defined as a​

pass that is thrown in the direction of and lands in the vicinity of an originally eligible offensive receiver.​

.​

.​

Item 2. Physical Contact. Intentional grounding should not be called if:​

(a) the passer initiates his passing motion toward an eligible receiver and then is significantly affected by physical contact from a​

defensive player that causes the pass to land in an area that is not in the direction and vicinity of an eligible receiver; or​

(b) the passer is out of the pocket, and his passing motion is significantly affected by physical contact from a defensive player​

that causes the ball to land short of the line of scrimmage.​

 

[G2]

Depends. He was outside the pocket and being contacted physically. If they weren't going to rule in the grasp/down by contact then it probably should have gone down as an incompletion. But even in the rules, it's listed as a "should not be called" and not "will not be called." It's a penalty that can be reviewed so they could have concluded that it was not even an attempt to complete but just dump the ball to avoid the loss. The pass was underhanded and also hit Reddick in the helmet first.

RULE 8 FORWARD PASS, BACKWARD PASS, FUMBLE​

SECTION 2 INTENTIONAL GROUNDING​

ARTICLE 1. DEFINITION. It is a foul for intentional grounding if a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage because of pressure​

from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion. A realistic chance of completion is defined as a​

pass that is thrown in the direction of and lands in the vicinity of an originally eligible offensive receiver.​

.​

.​

Item 2. Physical Contact. Intentional grounding should not be called if:​

(a) the passer initiates his passing motion toward an eligible receiver and then is significantly affected by physical contact from a​

defensive player that causes the pass to land in an area that is not in the direction and vicinity of an eligible receiver; or​

(b) the passer is out of the pocket, and his passing motion is significantly affected by physical contact from a defensive player​

that causes the ball to land short of the line of scrimmage.​

Thanks for doing all that. I didn't think the Horse Collar call/no call was allowed to be reviewable because the intentional grounding call. It's confusing.

 

[Ken]

It was not a horse collar tackle by definition. The rule is about "the inside collar of the back." The QB was pulled to the ground by the front of his jersey and the second hand went on his back later to help fling him to the ground, not pull him to the ground. The front hand was doing that and the front is fine to do. Here's the play, plus another example of Reggie White doing it to Aikman at 1:57 of the second video (on Erik Williams, by the way). It is not a foul.

RULE 12 PLAYER CONDUCT​

SECTION 2 PERSONAL FOULS​

ARTICLE 16. HORSE-COLLAR TACKLE. No player shall grab the inside collar of the back or the side of the shoulder pads or​

jersey, or grab the jersey at the name plate or above, and pull the runner toward the ground. This does not apply to a runner who​

is in the pocket or in the area defined by close-line play. If his knees are buckled by the action, it is a foul, even if the runner is​

not pulled completely to the ground.​

So you are saying the Gene Steratore is wrong? lol

He was definitive in his analysis of that play in the clip you posted.