This is a football move and yesterday's wasn't? - Same play

[Miller]

Again.

The play passed the eye test. Everyone saw it was a catch. It was ruled a catch on the field. Dez clearly made a move to get into the endzone. The ball never moved until it hit the ground. I'm not sure what to tell you.

The play shifted our win expectancy by 40 percentage points. The fact people are still talking about it today shows that nothing is irrefutable about the play and it should have stood as called.

And i'm not desperate for anything. Nothing I say now changes that we lost the game. Upset? Sad? Bitter? Yes. Yes. Yes.

Desperate? Nope.

I was talking about the cheap shots regarding not playing football or knowing the game is desperation.

Again, it's not like I don't see the argument. I just don't think your idea of a football move under the rule...the lunge..is legit here. The rule is dumb. If that rule isn't in place I'm ranting that its a catch. But following the rule, I don't because I don't see the arm out as a lunge. I see it as a guy falling forward after an incredible snag in the air. He and he defender are both going forward and down from momentum, thus the refs saying he had to maintain once he hit. Again, look at his extension in the OP video against the Giants and look at it in my first video. The ball hits next to his helmet. He's just crashing down IMO.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

I was talking about the cheap shots regarding not playing football or knowing the game is desperation.

Again, it's not like I don't see the argument. I just don't think your idea of a football move under the rule...the lunge..is legit here. The rule is dumb. If that rule isn't in place I'm ranting that its a catch. But following the rule, I don't because I don't see the arm out as a lunge. I see it as a guy falling forward after an incredible snag in the air. He and he defender are both going forward and down from momentum, thus the refs saying he had to maintain once he hit. Again, look at his extension in the OP video against the Giants and look at it in my first video. The ball hits next to his helmet. He's just crashing down IMO.

That's fair. I don't think he goes down though if not tripped.

He wasn't falling from his jump. He takes a step and then the defender gets him with the leg.

 

[Miller]

I see him with the ball in 2 hands, put it in his left hand, and reach for the endzone.

And I see the first 2 parts of that equation and not the last. I see one motion of coming down from skying in the air and falling forward. You can land on two feet and not be in control. I'm not fighting this to be against my own team. Just don't think we should be blaming refs when we blew 4 chances on our own to go up by 14 points or more.

 

[Miller]

That's fair. I don't think he goes down though if not tripped.

He wasn't falling from his jump. He takes a step and then the defender gets him with the leg.

Could be. I'm not saying I'm right. Just after seeing it 100 times I get why the officials made it fall under the rule....a dumb rule. Though I was very surprised that Cris Carter said he liked the rule because it spells out a definitive way to show a WR actually makes a catch. In general it really comes down to that lunge vs securing the ball in the refs mind. I don't even think the steps and all that factor into it if you hear the post game officials talk.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Could be. I'm not saying I'm right. Just after seeing it 100 times I get why the officials made it fall under the rule....a dumb rule. Though I was very surprised that Cris Carter said he liked the rule because it spells out a definitive way to show a WR actually makes a catch. In general it really comes down to that lunge vs securing the ball in the refs mind. I don't even think the steps and all that factor into it if you hear the post game officials talk.

So much going on.

Let it stand as called.

 

[CATCH17]

And I see the first 2 parts of that equation and not the last. I see one motion of coming down from skying in the air and falling forward. You can land on two feet and not be in control. I'm not fighting this to be against my own team. Just don't think we should be blaming refs when we blew 4 chances on our own to go up by 14 points or more.

We had our chances before that yes. But that play ended the game.


I see him stretching for the End zone. Dez said he was stretching for the end zone and I doubt he knew every detail about the rule at that point when he was interviewed.

 

[kapolani]

Excuse me for a sec.

I have to go punch another kitten.

 

[Plankton]

Yesterday I was screaming that it was a football move and shouldn't be overturned but again the more I look at it I don't see his last move as a move but just the act of going down. As far as hitting the ground its obvious it hit the ground. The ball hit sideways on turf and popped up

As someone who believes that the call was incorrect, but doesn't blame this call for the Cowboys not advancing in the playoffs, he absolutely was trying to extend for a touchdown. He puts his right hand down and thrusts forward while extending with his left hand/arm. What else could he be doing but trying to score, and making a "football move"?

 

[sbark]

I'd venture to say if a person had access and the time............there would be a dozen plays in the NFL within a short time span that would mirror the Dez call.......and all of them being called a TD.........

 

[Miller]

As someone who believes that the call was incorrect, but doesn't blame this call for the Cowboys not advancing in the playoffs, he absolutely was trying to extend for a touchdown. He puts his right hand down and thrusts forward while extending with his left hand/arm. What else could he be doing but trying to score, and making a "football move"?

I just don't see it that way. Imagine you are falling forward. Your whole body is going at an angle....like a lawn dart or something similar. You are at a trajectory of going into the ground. To me, it just looks like that he's trying to land. The one arm hits first but I see no push off because the ball crashes next to his helmet and both arms land in the same position. It looks like the second video I posted has been changed but the first one shows what I'm trying to explain.

 

[nathanlt]

HUGE difference in plays. In that one Dez catches it, runs and literally springs forward to stretch it out. Rewatch yesterdays again and be honest without being a Cowboy fan and I can see it being him just falling to the ground

He allegedly simply fell to the ground, while making 2 football moves,
#1, going from 2 hands securing the ball, to the left hand securing the ball,
and #2, stretching the ball toward the pylon.

In the Giants game, Dez's knee and body were down before the ball came loose and contacted the ground.
In the Packers game, Dez's body, right elbow, then left elbow touched the ground before the ball rotated. It DID NOT rotate because of the ground contacting the ball at any point.

There is no definitive shot showing that the ball ever touched the ground.

(AND I'VE WATCHED THE PLAY 30 TIMES, in HD)

 

[Kevinicus]

I just don't see it that way. Imagine you are falling forward. Your whole body is going at an angle....like a lawn dart or something similar. You are at a trajectory of going into the ground. To me, it just looks like that he's trying to land. The one arm hits first but I see no push off because the ball crashes next to his helmet and both arms land in the same position. It looks like the second video I posted has been changed but the first one shows what I'm trying to explain.

Look at the CHANGE in trajectory of the ball as he falls. It's going straight down around the 2 yard line, then it goes forward horizontally. It's clear as day.

 

[THEHEREAFTER]

I just don't see it that way. Imagine you are falling forward. Your whole body is going at an angle....like a lawn dart or something similar. You are at a trajectory of going into the ground. To me, it just looks like that he's trying to land. The one arm hits first but I see no push off because the ball crashes next to his helmet and both arms land in the same position. It looks like the second video I posted has been changed but the first one shows what I'm trying to explain.

Disagree it was still a reach although not as picturesque as the Giants game. The call comes down to the refs interpretation of how convincing a lunge it was which is ridiculous. We all know Dez fights for every yard and goes all out if he sniffs the endzone. He's secured the ball and is trying his damnest to score.

 

[nathanlt]

I played football and that is a really weak comeback by the way. Desperation.

There are a lot of people out there who don't think its a catch. Cris Carter was just one saying the rule was followed right. I just like being objective vs. ranting because my team lost. You call it a shift to one hand and I just call it the act of catching the ball while falling. Look at the top video from the OP and the video from yesterday and you will see a CLEAR lunge vs falling forward.

WHY are you hung up on falling forward? Falling forward is irrelevant when there are 2 football moves, and the ball ROTATES ABOVE THE GROUND. AGAIN, IT NEVER HITS THE GROUND. You're grasping at nothing.

 

[Plankton]

I just don't see it that way. Imagine you are falling forward. Your whole body is going at an angle....like a lawn dart or something similar. You are at a trajectory of going into the ground. To me, it just looks like that he's trying to land. The one arm hits first but I see no push off because the ball crashes next to his helmet and both arms land in the same position. It looks like the second video I posted has been changed but the first one shows what I'm trying to explain.

His right hand lands first, and he tries to propel himself. I think it's pretty clear, and my view from 20 rows back in that corner had me seeing the same thing.

 

[Miller]

He allegedly simply fell to the ground, while making 2 football moves,
#1, going from 2 hands securing the ball, to the left hand securing the ball,
and #2, stretching the ball toward the pylon.

In the Giants game, Dez's knee and body were down before the ball came loose and contacted the ground.
In the Packers game, Dez's body, right elbow, then left elbow touched the ground before the ball rotated. It DID NOT rotate because of the ground contacting the ball at any point.

There is no definitive shot showing that the ball ever touched the ground.

(AND I'VE WATCHED THE PLAY 30 TIMES, in HD)

I don't think many people realize what the rule entails. The rule, according to officials yesterday, has nothing to do with feet, etc. It has to do with making a move and maintain the ball as you land. I'll start with the ground ting first. The second video I posted CLEARLY shows his arm hit and nothing is under the ball. So the ball hits the ground on its side. Secondly, would you expect the guy to just fall out of the sky and bellyflop? If I jump off a roof and land, I may land on my feet and stumble forward taking 2-3 steps before face planting but I'm still falling down. All I see in the video is him at his high point and then being athletic as he falls forwards in one motion. If you look at both angles you don't see him pushing forward because the ball shoots up next to his helmet. In the Giants game he basically left his feet to extend the ball.

 

[Miller]

WHY are you hung up on falling forward? Falling forward is irrelevant when there are 2 football moves, and the ball ROTATES ABOVE THE GROUND. AGAIN, IT NEVER HITS THE GROUND. You're grasping at nothing.

Because ITS THE RULE!!!! The two feet and hand switch aren't football moves under this rule. and if you can't see it hitting the ground then you aren't objective.

 

[sbark]

WHY are you hung up on falling forward? Falling forward is irrelevant when there are 2 football moves, and the ball ROTATES ABOVE THE GROUND. AGAIN, IT NEVER HITS THE GROUND. You're grasping at nothing.

agree, He caught the ball facing Romo---did a 180 degree turn and while taking 3 steps was down by contact while reaching for the endzone.......the 180 turn starts building on the "football move" right off the bat.

 

[Miller]

His right hand lands first, and he tries to propel himself. I think it's pretty clear, and my view from 20 rows back in that corner had me seeing the same thing.

Well then he did a poor job of propelling because he went nowhere and neither did the ball. Again, OP video vs yesterday and you see propel vs. landing forward.

 

[nathanlt]

I don't think many people realize what the rule entails. The rule, according to officials yesterday, has nothing to do with feet, etc. It has to do with making a move and maintain the ball as you land. I'll start with the ground ting first. The second video I posted CLEARLY shows his arm hit and nothing is under the ball. So the ball hits the ground on its side. Secondly, would you expect the guy to just fall out of the sky and bellyflop? If I jump off a roof and land, I may land on my feet and stumble forward taking 2-3 steps before face planting but I'm still falling down. All I see in the video is him at his high point and then being athletic as he falls forwards in one motion. If you look at both angles you don't see him pushing forward because the ball shoots up next to his helmet. In the Giants game he basically left his feet to extend the ball.

THE LEFT ELBOW hit the turf after the right elbow hit, causing the rotation. NOT THE GROUND. Look again. You have NO STILL SHOT proving it hit the ground. I've checked, there is none. His wrist is bending at a weird angle, due to the LEFT ELBOW impact.