This is a football move and yesterday's wasn't? - Same play

[Miller]

Ball moving DOES NOT EQUAL Ball moving because of the ground.

BAM!

Try to show me a still photo. YOU CAN'T!! (Thanks, end zone pylon)

ALSO, DEZ went from 2 hand secure to left hand secure. NO DISPUTE!!!

Can you please go away now. Point of back of ball on the ground with no elbow in sight

Ball moving DOES NOT EQUAL Ball moving because of the ground.

BAM!

Try to show me a still photo. YOU CAN'T!! (Thanks, end zone pylon)

ALSO, DEZ went from 2 hand secure to left hand secure. NO DISPUTE!!!

Can you please go away now. Clear pic from above of ball tip on ground. Thanks move along. Nothing to see here folks. Your honor sorry we wasted your day

http://www.totalprosports.com/2015/01/11/dez-bryant-catch-overturned-video/

 

[TwoDeep3]

If you are implying that it wasn't a catch before, the ball was dislodged. which it clearly was. The only reason this is in question is Dez used his momentum after he caught the ball to try and spring himself into the endzone. (a football move).

Dex chose, to use his momentum to do that , because he had the freaking ball in his hand. and two feet in bounds while he was using his momentum and taking steps forward.

Dez had the ball, in control. It was a catch before , he chose to use his momentum to try and get into the endzone.

thats the way I see it. And its like the other guys were saying. This is all "Lawyer Talk" like at the OJ case....You can pick apart just about anything to make a case. A case mind you.

Now, twodeep3, you are going to tell me there was 100% no doubt at all in the call the replay official made which over turned the call on the field?? No doubt , at all, none what so ever??

thats what your saying?

I am saying that once the ball was dislodged from dez hand as he was placing his fiorst footfall, that changes the ruling of how he goes to the ground. He has to maintain control.

He did not. So football move does not apply. The ref got it wrong when he initially called it. The replay allowed the booth to see the events - juggled catch - goes to ground (number o9f steps meaningless once ball was juggled - loses control as ball touches the ground - snatches ball from air caused by ground.

The lynchpin of this event was when the DB knocked the control of the ball from Dez, which started a new set of criteria for the ball to be considered a catch. Dez did not exhibit the catch criteria before the ball was dislodged, which would have been a football move. But since it was immediate, and at that point Dez did not take two steps, the requirement for it being a catch/football move, and he was headed toward the ground, a new set of rules covered what happened next, and control was the aspect that Dez lost because of the ground.

It sucks, but it is accurate.

 

[TwoDeep3]

That's the still photo. I don't know what else to tell you.

There is NO still photo to prop up your assumption that the ground caused the ball to move.

And I have yet to see any time a still photo is required for proof the ball moved and control was lost. Show me thew rulebook that says that is the arbiter of what is a catch and control.

 

[Miller]

And I have yet to see any time a still photo is required for proof the ball moved and control was lost. Show me thew rulebook that says that is the arbiter of what is a catch and control.

It's ok. I just posted the link to show up his secret Rich Eisen, FBI tape. Pic in link shows point on ground with no elbow just as explained

http://www.totalprosports.com/2015/01/11/dez-bryant-catch-overturned-video/

 

[Race Bannon]

http://thebiglead.com/2015/01/11/josh-cribbs-got-jacked-while-catching-a-punt-ruled-not-a-fumble/

No consistency in the NFL?!? So they are saying Cribbs made a football move thus completing the catch and the ground caused a fumble.

 

[JoeBoBBY]

I am saying that once the ball was dislodged from dez hand as he was placing his fiorst footfall, that changes the ruling of how he goes to the ground. He has to maintain control.

He did not. So football move does not apply. The ref got it wrong when he initially called it. The replay allowed the booth to see the events - juggled catch - goes to ground (number o9f steps meaningless once ball was juggled - loses control as ball touches the ground - snatches ball from air caused by ground.

The lynchpin of this event was when the DB knocked the control of the ball from Dez, which started a new set of criteria for the ball to be considered a catch. Dez did not exhibit the catch criteria before the ball was dislodged, which would have been a football move. But since it was immediate, and at that point Dez did not take two steps, the requirement for it being a catch/football move, and he was headed toward the ground, a new set of rules covered what happened next, and control was the aspect that Dez lost because of the ground.

It sucks, but it is accurate.

Just watched the video again.

But imho, The DB barely touched the ball, and even at that, Dez had secured it to his shoulder right before his First Foot hit the ground.....

There is just too much Doubt on this play for someone, let alone a trained replay official, to over turn the call on the field.

That was a catch. even with applying this vague open to a judgement call, rule. They got it wrong.

 

[31smackdown]

Yes, there is a dispute, but you fail to recognize it because of some ridiculous still photo proof, which NEVER enters into any possession requirements while applying the Calvin Johnson Rule. That is YOUR rule, and you are changing the criteria to suit YOUR argument.

Especially when you see the ball move out of control of his hand, then as he rolls onto his back he snatches it out of the air. Your contention requires ignoring physics and demanding something that has NEVER be a part of the rules of play.

Thanks for the chat.

The ball moves after it hits the ground simultaneously with his hand because his hand tilts forward and continues to move closer to his body. He never loses his hand or grip on the ball while the ball is in contact with the ground. As the ball and his hand continue towards his body the shoulder pad causes the ball to move and the momentum carries it into the air where he secures the catch. Therefore since the lose of possession did not occur by the ground, but by the players own equipment and then never touched the ground again it should at that point be a touchdown because you are saying he has not competed the catch yet so he can't be down by contact yet. Just because the ball touches the ground doesn't mean it's incomplete, the players has to lose possession while it's touching the ground. The ball pops up because his wrist rotates under him not because the ball came loose.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

HUGE difference in plays. In that one Dez catches it, runs and literally springs forward to stretch it out. Rewatch yesterdays again and be honest without being a Cowboy fan and I can see it being him just falling to the ground

Yup, watched the play for about the millionth time and I still see him extending his body, his left arm and making a lunging motion towards the goal line.

According to the NFL and some 'fans' here...the original poster's video it should have been ruled complete because they are going by the CJ rule.

I'll ask this...if Mike McCarthey had never challenged the play would have anybody gone back (even Packers fans) and state that "man, McCarthey should have challenged that play!'"

What would the percentage of people that would say that? 1%?





YR

 

[JoeBoBBY]

Just watched the video again.

But imho, The DB barely touched the ball, and even at that, Dez had secured it to his shoulder right before his First Foot hit the ground.....

There is just too much Doubt on this play for someone, let alone a trained replay official, to over turn the call on the field.

That was a catch. even with applying this vague open to a judgement call, rule. They got it wrong.

And watched it again.

He then switches the ball to his other hand, a football move, in order to get it into position as he knew he was getting close to the endzone and then he pushed with his legs, a football move, in order to try and break the goal line....

 

[Miller]

Yup, watched the play for about the millionth time and I still see him extending his body, his left arm and making a lunging motion towards the goal line.

According to the NFL and some 'fans' here...the original poster's video it should have been ruled complete because they are going by the CJ rule.

I'll ask this...if Mike McCarthey had never challenged the play would have anybody gone back (even Packers fans) and state that "man, McCarthey should have challenged that play!'"

What would the percentage of people that would say that? 1%?





YR

I thought they were challenging spot. I had no clue what they were reviewing

 

[TwoDeep3]

Expand the video to its largest possibility.

Watch the catch.

1. Dez takes it at highest point.
***2. DB tips the ball.
3. Dez brings ball to chest.
***4: DB's legs touches Dez and he falls/leaps forward.

Once the ball, was tipped, the resultant bring the ball to his chest was not a completion at that point because of number four where the DB's leg touched Dez in a way to make it appear he is now falling to the ground.

2. is a juggled catch
4. is the requirement for the contact to be made, which would cause the receiver/runner to be down.

But, if the replay booth decoded 4 caused Dez to go to the ground after 2. negated what was the initial catch, then Dez would need to have control to the ground.

His intent to score is overridden by the tip that has a requisite of establishing control to the ground.

And there is another video in that link - once the main video plays - which is the chief of refs speaking with NFLN and explaining why control had to be maintained.

They ruled it that way, and their explanation, while distasteful for us Cowboys fans, is accurate.

 

[TwoDeep3]

Just watched the video again.

But imho, The DB barely touched the ball, and even at that, Dez had secured it to his shoulder right before his First Foot hit the ground.....

And in the bolded area is where the call was made. Because they considered he lost control because of the DB, and then he fell to the ground - because of the DB's leg nudging him - which means he is now obligated to show control to the ground.

I am with you on this in the fact it stinks. But they used the rule and logic to make this case. And that means they made the right call.

 

[JoeBoBBY]

There is also a good amount of doubt as to whether the ball even hit the ground. My gut tells me it probably did..

unless I am missing a picture or some footage...

but again.

That isn't enough to OVERTURN THE CALL ON THE FIELD!!!

 

[JoeBoBBY]

And in the bolded area is where the call was made. Because they considered he lost control because of the DB, and then he fell to the ground - because of the DB's leg nudging him - which means he is now obligated to show control to the ground.

I am with you on this in the fact it stinks. But they used the rule and logic to make this case. And that means they made the right call.

And i think he clearly did show control....

?

 

[WV Cowboy]

Oh my gosh, look what they have done to the NFL, .. it now takes 6 paragraphs, 4 bullet points, 3 different video angles, a coach's challenge, super slow motion and zoom WAY IN, ... and a partridge in a pear tree to determine if a catch is a catch.

And they still got it wrong. LOL

They are ruining the game I grew up loving.

 

[Miller]

Fgc

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Can v

I can tell you twice if you like.

NFL.com highlights when Rich Eisen says "down". You have to hit stop start really fast to go frame by frame. it's there.

Clear pic from above does not prove that the ball touches the ground. There needs to be a ground level view

Now you are just embarrassing yourself. You said there was no clear view. He is on the ground right there and there is gap between his arm and the point of the ball is on the ground. I guess I should h learned my lesson not to feed the troll.

 

[nathanlt]

Fgc

C
C
Can v






Now you are just embarrassing yourself. You said there was no clear view. He is on the ground right there and there is gap between his arm and the point of the ball is on the ground. I guess I should h learned my lesson not to feed the troll.

Ironically, I have the ground level view now of the back of the ball touching the ground. Yet I cannot post it because of the URL requirement for the board. It's the still shot I was searching for.

So, despite my clamoring for a still shot, and no one being able to provide it, I came up with it myself, it's far more conclusive than ESPN's frame by frame link. I can share it via email with you.

Next point. Do football moves negate the ball touching the ground rule? In the field of play, they do. Stumbling for 10 yards would definitely be a football move, while going to the ground slowly over the 10 yards would be falling.

 

[Miller]

Ironically, I have the ground level view now of the back of the ball touching the ground. Yet I cannot post it because of the URL requirement for the board. It's the still shot I was searching for.

So, despite my clamoring for a still shot, and no one being able to provide it, I came up with it myself, it's far more conclusive than ESPN's frame by frame link. I can share it via email with you.

Next point. Do football moves negate the ball touching the ground rule? In the field of play, they do. Stumbling for 10 yards would definitely be a football move, while going to the ground slowly over the 10 yards would be falling.

I did provide a pic in that link. Ground view or not he's laying on the turf with the point of the ball on it. So whatever makes you feel good in your world. I've moved on.

 

[CowboyGil]

I bet Jerry will be lobbying to get that dumb rule rescinded. Just as the Lions will lobby to make face guarding illegal. The best catch of the playoffs. That wasn't. The NFL's 'Top 5' catches of the divisional round all pale in comparison to Dez's. Shame they didn't make McCarthy eat that second timeout and let the players decide it.

 

[nathanlt]

I did provide a pic in that link. Ground view or not he's laying on the turf with the point of the ball on it. So whatever makes you feel good in your world. I've moved on.

It was actually your post, #101, that showed me the GROUND LEVEL view I was asking for... grrrr.... thanks. It's at the 9 second mark.

Does that override the football move rule, then?

There are FIVE football moves on this play.
#1 turning upfield. Caught the ball with his back to the sideline and turned 90 degrees upfield.
#2 switching the ball from the right shoulder with both hands to the left hand only. The ball is secure the whole time.
#3 lunging for the end zone
#4 Extending his arm for the pylon.
#5 Traveling 5 yards during #1-#4