This is a football move and yesterday's wasn't? - Same play

[nathanlt]

Dude, its not projecting. It's called reality. If you can't see that, then there is no hope for you or objectivity. Your elbow theory is easily rejected from the first pic alone which shows no elbow under the ball or even on the ball. In fact you can see the back half of the football below his hands and gloves which means they were the first to hit. The position in the second pic proves that because that is how it bounced up. The elbow isn't even the 10th best answer you could have made up. I'm getting to the point that I think you may be just trolling now.

Nope, the still shot THAT PROVES MY POINT is in the NFL.com highlights, in the frame where Rich Eisen says the word "down". You'll have to practice your start stop super fast to see it. The pylon is about to block the view, but Dez's left elbow touches at the 2 foot line, and the ball is above the ground at the one foot line. Dez's elbow toward fingertip angle in relation to the ground is roughly 30 degrees elevated. As a pilot, if I had to give it a heading, it would be a 300 heading, given that a 270 heading is level ground pointing toward the end zone.

 

[TwoDeep3]

HAHAHAHA!! That is so weak.. So switching hands is an automatic incompletion? That's what you just argued for.

No, you are now trying to wiggle out of this. He caught the ball, still in the air the ball and control were lost due to the DB.

That now makes the Calvin Johnson Rule apply.

Now he has to establish the ball and control all the way to the ground. He extends for the goal line. Ball in hand. Ball rolls above his hand means he did not maintain control. It was not a catch.

The action of the DB to dislodge the ball changed it from a catch to a non-catch until he maintains control all the way to the ground.

Dez clearly loses control due to the ball hitting the ground. It pops up from that hiut and he grabs it in the air as he slides in the endzone.

That action of the ball movement means that was not a catch.

 

[TwoDeep3]

You are missing his leap at the end.. he literally leaps off of one leg and the very end. That is a football move and he has done it before.

Once he loses control because of the DB tipping the ball as he came back to the ground, the Calvin Johnson Rule applies and the football move is inconsequential.

Because he MUST now maintain control to the ground. He did not.

That is why the catch was overruled.

 

[superonyx]

I know what everyone in their heart knows about this play. And that is that Dez tried to score and that is what led to the ball hitting the ground.
Does anyone honestly think that Dez would have caught that ball the exact same way if that catch was at the 30 yard line or mid field? Of course not. We all know that Dez saw the end zone and he went for it......

As many have said there is not indisputable evidence that he was not trying to get to the end zone.

 

[sbark]

No, you are now trying to wiggle out of this. He caught the ball, still in the air the ball and control were lost due to the DB.

That now makes the Calvin Johnson Rule apply.

Now he has to establish the ball and control all the way to the ground. He extends for the goal line. Ball in hand. Ball rolls above his hand means he did not maintain control. It was not a catch.

The action of the DB to dislodge the ball changed it from a catch to a non-catch until he maintains control all the way to the ground.

Dez clearly loses control due to the ball hitting the ground. It pops up from that hiut and he grabs it in the air as he slides in the endzone.

That action of the ball movement means that was not a catch.

unless an opinion holds it was a "football Move"........the ref in front of the play thought he did, the replay ref went against Replay protocol in forcing Dez to prove he did, rather than accept the ref's on the fields opinion he did..........and of course Dez doesn't get "a day in court" to prove he did. the intent of the replay rules were flipped 180 degrees.

 

[ufcrules1]

I just don't see it that way. Imagine you are falling forward. Your whole body is going at an angle....like a lawn dart or something similar. You are at a trajectory of going into the ground. To me, it just looks like that he's trying to land. The one arm hits first but I see no push off because the ball crashes next to his helmet and both arms land in the same position. It looks like the second video I posted has been changed but the first one shows what I'm trying to explain.

Keep in mind Dez is left handed.... he caught the ball with 2 hands and brought it into his chest. He then switches it to he left hand and right before he hits.. he lunges. This was pointed out to the refs later and their response was "It wasn't enough of a football move".

 

[Derinyar]

The issue is multifold. First the ruling on the field was a completed catch. You have to have indisputable evidence to over turn that. There is none, because look at how much its in dispute by not just cowboy fans but by everyone else. In fact the Ref basically said in his judgement no football move was made. Blandino said he didn't think Dez stretched out enough to make a football move. Opinion and judgement where distinct information was needed.

People are saying the dive for the end zone was irrelevant are wrong. The way the rules work if the player has control of the ball and makes something that is considered a football move then it is a completed process irregardless of going to the ground or not. The going to the ground covers for when a player is unable to complete the process of the catch. Did Dez make an extension of the football to try and reach the end zone. Yes its a completed catch. No its an incompletion. And that is a judgement by Steratore and the NFL head office made during replay.

Some people think it should have been a fumble. That isn't a possibility in the course of this play. If the catch is completed prior to the ball hitting the ground then Dez is down by contact before the ball comes lose. If its incomplete, as the replay called it, then it can't be a fumble as it was never a possession.

What I see is a completed catch and down by contact, cemented by Dez stretching out the ball for the end zone on the end of the play.

 

[THEHEREAFTER]

Once he loses control because of the DB tipping the ball as he came back to the ground, the Calvin Johnson Rule applies and the football move is inconsequential.

Because he MUST now maintain control to the ground. He did not.

That is why the catch was overruled.

So the DB tips the ball? I thought Dez caught it cleanly. I have to re-watch.

 

[Miller]

Nope, the still shot THAT PROVES MY POINT is in the NFL.com highlights, in the frame where Rich Eisen says the word "down". You'll have to practice your start stop super fast to see it. The pylon is about to block the view, but Dez's left elbow touches at the 2 foot line, and the ball is above the ground at the one foot line. Dez's elbow toward fingertip angle in relation to the ground is roughly 30 degrees elevated. As a pilot, if I had to give it a heading, it would be a 300 heading, given that a 270 heading is level ground pointing toward the end zone.

I still don't think you get it. The elbow hitting doesn't mean he's down. Your above talk about nanoseconds is completely false when you look at the pics I presented because he is less than a second from hitting. Unless his elbow sonically moved below the back of the ball, which is the low point in the pic then your argument is rubbish. You are one of the only people saying the ball didn't hit, including Dez.

 

[nathanlt]

No, you are now trying to wiggle out of this. He caught the ball, still in the air the ball and control were lost due to the DB.

That now makes the Calvin Johnson Rule apply.

Now he has to establish the ball and control all the way to the ground. He extends for the goal line. Ball in hand. Ball rolls above his hand means he did not maintain control. It was not a catch.

The action of the DB to dislodge the ball changed it from a catch to a non-catch until he maintains control all the way to the ground.

Dez clearly loses control due to the ball hitting the ground. It pops up from that hiut and he grabs it in the air as he slides in the endzone.

That action of the ball movement means that was not a catch.

Ball moving DOES NOT EQUAL Ball moving because of the ground.

BAM!

Try to show me a still photo. YOU CAN'T!! (Thanks, end zone pylon)

ALSO, DEZ went from 2 hand secure to left hand secure. NO DISPUTE!!!

 

[Everson24]

The more I watch it, the madder I get. That is a catch, .. no that is a great catch!

He went up so high, caught the ball at the top of his jump, landed on the 5 yard line, took two steps and then pushed off towards the goal line with the third, stretched out and came up short of the goal line. The catch was complete at that point.

You could say he fumbled when he hit the ground, but since the Packer DB tripped him, it was down by contact.

Never did he "not catch" the ball.

I have been watching the NFL since the early 60's, ... that has always been a catch.

Do you think in this same situation that the Steelers or the Giants get that overturned? No Way!

 

[nathanlt]

I still don't think you get it. The elbow hitting doesn't mean he's down. Your above talk about nanoseconds is completely false when you look at the pics I presented because he is less than a second from hitting. Unless his elbow sonically moved above the back of the ball, which is the low point in the pic then your argument is rubbish

Way to talk around the FACT that you don't have a still photo of proof. I do have proof the left elbow hit first.

Your projecting your impression based on a pre-impact photo. That is INCONCLUSIVE.

 

[Miller]

Way to talk around the FACT that you don't have a still photo of proof. I do have proof the left elbow hit first.

Your projecting your impression based on a pre-impact photo. That is INCONCLUSIVE.

You dont have fact. You have presented nothing here that is Fact. Youre a pilot. I'm a lawyer and your fanciful assertions with zero evidence are comical. You just keep repeating the same thing despite physics and reality showing its not true. Part of the ball hit the ground and that's Fact. Where is your magic bullet pic that shows how a ball pops straight up off an elbows not on the ball or under the ball?

 

[TwoDeep3]

Ball moving DOES NOT EQUAL Ball moving because of the ground.

BAM!

Try to show me a still photo. YOU CAN'T!! (Thanks, end zone pylon)

ALSO, DEZ went from 2 hand secure to left hand secure. NO DISPUTE!!!

Yes, there is a dispute, but you fail to recognize it because of some ridiculous still photo proof, which NEVER enters into any possession requirements while applying the Calvin Johnson Rule. That is YOUR rule, and you are changing the criteria to suit YOUR argument.

Especially when you see the ball move out of control of his hand, then as he rolls onto his back he snatches it out of the air. Your contention requires ignoring physics and demanding something that has NEVER be a part of the rules of play.

Thanks for the chat.

 

[TwoDeep3]

You dont have fact. You have presented nothing here that is Fact. Youre a pilot. I'm a lawyer and your fanciful assertions with zero evidence are comical. You just keep repeating the same thing despite physics and reality showing its not true. Part of the ball hit the ground and that's Fact. Where is your magic bullet pic that shows how a ball pops straight up off an elbows not on the ball or under the ball?

Oh my gosh, Dez got taken down by the grassy goal.

Good call, counselor.

 

[nathanlt]

You dont have fact. You have presented nothing here that is Fact. Youre a pilot. I'm a lawyer and your fanciful assertions with zero evidence are comical. You just keep repeating the same thing despite physics and reality showing its not true. Part of the ball hit the ground and that's Fact. Where is your magic bullet pic that shows how a ball pops straight up off an elbows not on the ball or under the ball?

I can tell you twice if you like.

NFL.com highlights when Rich Eisen says "down". You have to hit stop start really fast to go frame by frame. it's there.

 

[JoeBoBBY]

No, you are now trying to wiggle out of this. He caught the ball, still in the air the ball and control were lost due to the DB.

That now makes the Calvin Johnson Rule apply.

Now he has to establish the ball and control all the way to the ground. He extends for the goal line. Ball in hand. Ball rolls above his hand means he did not maintain control. It was not a catch.

The action of the DB to dislodge the ball changed it from a catch to a non-catch until he maintains control all the way to the ground.

Dez clearly loses control due to the ball hitting the ground. It pops up from that hiut and he grabs it in the air as he slides in the endzone.

That action of the ball movement means that was not a catch.

If you are implying that it wasn't a catch before, the ball was dislodged. which it clearly was. The only reason this is in question is Dez used his momentum after he caught the ball to try and spring himself into the endzone. (a football move).

Dez chose, to use his momentum to do that , because he had the freaking ball in his hand. and two feet in bounds while he was using his momentum and taking steps forward.

Dez had the ball, in control. It was a catch before , he chose to use his momentum to try and get into the endzone. -- making it a fumble.

thats the way I see it. And its like the other guys were saying. This is all "Lawyer Talk" like at the OJ case....You can pick apart just about anything to make a case. A case mind you.

Now, twodeep3, you are going to tell me there was 100% no doubt at all in the call the replay official made, which over turned the call on the field?? No doubt , at all, none what so ever??

thats what your saying?

 

[TwoDeep3]

I can tell you twice if you like.

NFL.com highlights when Rich Eisen says "down". You have to hit stop start really fast to go frame by frame. it's there.

Evidently the refs don't use the Rich Eisen double click move.

 

[nathanlt]

Evidently the refs don't use the Rich Eisen double click move.

That's the still photo. I don't know what else to tell you.

There is NO still photo to prop up your assumption that the ground caused the ball to move.

 

[lostar2009]

Uh, no? At least not right now. Get back to me the cumbaya stuff in April or something.

Yeah buts not going to change anything but raise your blood pressure up. Im just past it as the team should have never let themselves get down like that.