This was a Jerry, not McClay, draft

[Toruk_Makto]

Elliot and Perkins aren't on the same planet let alone in the same league.

And its no myth. We ran the ball well last year and it got us to 4 wins. The running game needed to get younger and improve. Or did you want to address that with less value or put it off for another year. They already made the mistake of not addressing it last year....

OUr running game had nothing to do with our 4 wins last year. Let's all stop playing that game.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

OUr running game had nothing to do with our 4 wins last year. Let's all stop playing that game.

Well when we lost all of those games in the 4th quarter by 1 or 3 or 6 points it sure would've been nice if we could keep our defense off the field and use more clock.

 

[scottsp]

Well when we lost all of those games in the 4th quarter by 1 or 3 or 6 points it sure would've been nice if we could keep our defense off the field and use more clock.

Not to butt in here, but let me get this straight: You're condemning the running game because it could not help protect the other side of the ball, but actually committing higher-end talent to the other side of the ball is not as sensible to you?

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Well when we lost all of those games in the 4th quarter by 1 or 3 or 6 points it sure would've been nice if we could keep our defense off the field and use more clock.

We held the ball for 1 minute fewer in 2015 than we did in 2014. That was without competent QB play and our most dangerous pass catcher. I wonder if Tony Romo and a healthy Dez Bryant would have made a difference...

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Not to butt in here, but you're condemning the running game because it could not help protect the other side of the ball, but actually committing higher-end talent to the other side of the ball is not as sensible to you?

If there was a Von Miller there at pick #4 I would've been down with that. If there was a Luke Kuechly there I would've been down with that. If there was a Demarcus Ware. If there was a Khalil Mack. Fact is, there wasn't. There was a hybrid player in Ramsey that was there after we were just a year removed from drafting a hybrid player in Byron Jones.

I preferred Elliot based on what was there.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

We held the ball for 1 minute fewer in 2015 than we did in 2014. That was without competent QB play and our most dangerous pass catcher. I wonder if they would have made a difference...

They would've made a difference as well. But if they were to get hurt again then what? I'd much rather have a offense lean on Elliot then I would McFadden or Alfred Morris.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Not to butt in here, but let me get this straight: You're condemning the running game because it could not help protect the other side of the ball, but actually committing higher-end talent to the other side of the ball is not as sensible to you?

It is very strange mental gymnastics people put themselves through.

What is funny is the same people who praise Zeke because he makes "everyone better and is the most impactful player for our team"....i've seen many of them turn around and praise the Jaylon pick.

Cognitive dissonance.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

They would've made a difference as well. But if they were to get hurt again then what? I'd much rather have a offense lean on Elliot then I would McFadden or Alfred Morris.

If Romo gets hurt it really doesn't matter who is running the ball for us. We average 4.63 ypc last year. Can we stop with the "leaning on Zeke" fan fiction?

 

[jjktkk]

RB was not a position of need.

Defensive line was a position of need. Defensive secondary was a position of need. Running back was a position of want.

Teams get criticized all the time for drafting for need. Picking 4th, the top rated Dlineman(Bosa), and the top rated secondary player(Ramsey), each had question marks regarding if they were worthy of being picked 4th or not. Elliot had questions too regarding if he was worthy of the 4th pick, but he seemed the cleanest, or safest pick at 4. Other than the two QBs, this draft seemed void of any superstars worthy of being picked top 5, at least that was the perception imo.

 

[DFWJC]

First I heard of that. I read their target was Ramsey. Link?

That was confirmed on draft day. Heard it on the radio straight from Jerry and Stephen's mouths that it was Zeke.
Stephen has a good and honest relationship with Baltimore. Dallas wasn't going to trade down if the Ravens target was Zeke, and they confirmed that it was.

 

[scottsp]

If there was a Von Miller there at pick #4 I would've been down with that. If there was a Luke Kuechly there I would've been down with that. If there was a Demarcus Ware. If there was a Khalil Mack. Fact is, there wasn't. There was a hybrid player in Ramsey that was there after we were just a year removed from drafting a hybrid player in Byron Jones.

I preferred Elliot based on what was there.

We don't have to agree on how highly Jalen Ramsey is rated relative to Miller or Kuechly, because, quite frankly, we don't know what he will actually become - just as we didn't know with those guys. By the way, the same is true of Elliott. We don't have to agree on any of it.

What I do not get is, this nonsense of "we can help our defense more by upgrading the offensive side." God forbid the big problem be addressed... I dunno... directly - particularly when we exist in an age in which NFL games are decided more by net passing. I didn't realize versatility and depth in the defensive backfield was such a luxury with Byron Jones on board.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

We don't have to agree on how highly Jalen Ramsey is rated relative to Miller or Kuechly, because, quite frankly, we don't know what he will actually become - just as we didn't know with those guys. By the way, the same is true of Elliott. We don't have to agree on any of it.

What I do not get is, this nonsense of "we can help our defense more by upgrading the offensive side." God forbid the big problem be addressed... I dunno... directly - particularly when we exist in an age in which NFL games are decided more by net passing. I didn't realize versatility and depth in the defensive backfield was such a luxury with Byron Jones on board.

Offenses and defenses go hand in hand. You can't have a bad offense and then expect for your defense to be good. Sure their are exceptions but you usually don't want your defense on the field all game long with no offensive support.

With a great offense that controls the clock you can think allow for your defense to stay off the field. Because this defense wasn't the worst in the league last year. It wasn't even bad. It lacked turnovers and it would give up scores in the 4th quarter of games. So what do you do about that? You either sign Earl Thomas and Richard Sherman or you find players like that in the draft. Those options weren't available so they decided to get a workhouse running back that they can lean on in the 4th quarter of games to keep their defense off the field. That seems logical to me.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

If Romo gets hurt it really doesn't matter who is running the ball for us. We average 4.63 ypc last year. Can we stop with the "leaning on Zeke" fan fiction?

Well good luck on banking on McFadden not getting hurt again after he's been hurt every year he's been in the league. I know I wasn't willing to take that risk and the Cowboys weren't either.

 

[Reality]

As to Smith, Jerry admitted that they deviate from "the plan," which was to trade back up into the 2nd round to pick Smith, not pick him at 34.

If anyone was watching the war room cam, it was obvious what happened. There were two picks ahead of the Cowboys going into day #2 and they had two players they wanted to draft. Then the unexpected happened to them .. the two teams in front of them took both of the players. As a result, Stephen frantically jumped on the phone trying to trade down with multiple teams (at least he made multiple phone calls) while Jerry was scanning a document of some kind, I would guess their player board printed out. It seemed Stephen could not find a last minute trade and time was running down, so they submitted their fallback pick which was Smith. Not that they did not want him, but they were likely trying to trade down to grab another draft pick and take him lower in the second round.

 

[DFWJC]

Say you have a house that has one side built on a really solid foundation and the other built on borderline quicksand. The interior of the house is even built that way.
One side with a sweet video room, master suite, and much better than average kitchen (esp after a few small upgrades before the windfall) , etc.
The other with mold, 1970s rugs and tile floor, but maybe some average other things to go with the qucksand foundation...lol

So then you get the windfall...and are given more money (draft power) than you've had in years to fix as much of this entire thing as you can, so one side's total disaster status doesn't kill the other side..

What do you do?
Ahh, we upgrade our only better than average kitchen to an uber luxury version!
Sweet

 

[baltcowboy]

RB was not a position of need.

Defensive line was a position of need. Defensive secondary was a position of need. Running back was a position of want.

Running back not a position of need? I guarantee you if we did not draft Zeke we would have drafted someone in the first three rounds. McFadden and Morris at running back are similar to Carr and Scandrick at defensive back. Solid but unspectacular.

 

[scottsp]

Those options weren't available.

Actually, they were. They're available every year per your board and this class was not unusually devoid of defensive talent at the top. As to your argument, it doesn't really hold water in this case because Dallas held the ball for about a minute less per game last year compared to the year before. It's not like this defense was on the field that much, though there were times they just couldn't get themselves off. Unless your plan is to hold the ball for 50 minutes each week, your model really isn't solving the defensive problem as much as actually committing resources to it.

That said, I hope like hell Ezekiel Elliott runs for 2,000 yards and 18 TDs each of the next four seasons. Still wouldn't rationalize it, because there is an economics component to drafting, just as there is with anything else. Finite resources. Also, if they start hitting more consistently on picks in rounds 2+, I will gladly revise my stance.

 

[Nightman]

If anyone was watching the war room cam, it was obvious what happened. There were two picks ahead of the Cowboys going into day #2 and they had two players they wanted to draft. Then the unexpected happened to them .. the two teams in front of them took both of the players. As a result, Stephen frantically jumped on the phone trying to trade down with multiple teams (at least he made multiple phone calls) while Jerry was scanning a document of some kind, I would guess their player board printed out. It seemed Stephen could not find a last minute trade and time was running down, so they submitted their fallback pick which was Smith. Not th.at they did not want him, but they were likely trying to trade down to grab another draft pick and take him lower in the second round.

You can say it is was unexpected but Ogbah and Dodd were 2 of the best if not the 2 best players on the board according to many rankings. That is why the draft is so great. 95% of it is out of your control. Other teams do their homework as well.

They tried to trade back but after Lynch, Dodd and Ogbah were gone other teams didn't see any reason to overspend either. So they could take a DT or lower rated DE but they knew they could get those later. JSmith was a great consolation prize. Spence, Ragland and Jack were other options but they all have warts too.

Personally I am glad we didn't get Lynch and give up our 2nd and 3rd. He needs as much work as Dak and in two years we all will love JSmith.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Well good luck on banking on McFadden not getting hurt again after he's been hurt every year he's been in the league. I know I wasn't willing to take that risk and the Cowboys weren't either.

McFadden played 32 of his last 32 games. I also think it's disingenuous to say we were banking on him when we signed a back and of course looked at others.

The argument of course is did we need to spend a 4th to find another back to add to the mix.

Why spend the 4th on a fungible position that has a short life?

Heck we should have signed Lamar Miller and drafted Ramsey if we were interested in spending Zeke level money on a prospect.

 

[BrassCowboy]

How didn't you maximize your value when you got one of the best players in the draft and a position of need?

If you like a guy you don't trade down from him. That's moronic. MAYBE they could've got him in a trade down but then you risk someone trading with Baltimore to get Elliot. It wasn't worth whatever late round pick you would've got.

or if they couldnt trade with Baltimore, they could of traded with Jacksonville and they would of stole him from the Cowboys. but dont even bother. Whenever anyone points it out, like they don hear it. wierd