Tight End Speed

[AdamJT13]

This is why it's good to put the calculator down, get out of the house and date women once in awhile.

Nice personal attack. But it's a complete whiff, as usual.

If anyone believes Saint Jason Witten was a faster player than Rob Gronkowski or David Njoku you are beyond irrational.

It's not about "belief." There is actual technology that actually tracks the players' movement. It's not up for debate. If you think there was some extenuating circumstance that made Witten run extraordinarily fast for one brief second and some reason why Gronkowski never recorded a speed as fast at least 34 tight ends (likely more, given that I checked only 45) on any of his 69 catches, let's hear it.

 

[Vegas_Cowboy]

This is why it's good to put the calculator down, get out of the house and date women once in awhile.

If anyone believes Saint Jason Witten was a faster player than Rob Gronkowski or David Njoku you are beyond irrational.

Faster? Nope. Witten was just a get your jersey dirty, with some blood on it, catch the ball and block for the QB and RB type of TE.

 

[Vegas_Cowboy]

Nice personal attack. But it's a complete whiff, as usual.




It's not about "belief." There is actual technology that actually tracks the players' movement. It's not up for debate. If you think there was some extenuating circumstance that made Witten run extraordinarily fast for one brief second and some reason why Gronkowski never recorded a speed as fast at least 34 tight ends (likely more, given that I checked only 45) on any of his 69 catches, let's hear it.

This is why Witten always found a way to get open. I would peek in on other teams' message boards during games and it was always the same. "How was Witten that wide open?"

He had that great burst, used his body and ran great routes to get open.

 

[Verdict]

This is why it's good to put the calculator down, get out of the house and date women once in awhile.

If anyone believes Saint Jason Witten was a faster player than Rob Gronkowski or David Njoku you are beyond irrational.

Yeah. No way Witten is faster than either one of those guys.

 

[Verdict]

This is why Witten always found a way to get open. I would peek in on other teams' message boards during games and it was always the same. "How was Witten that wide open?"

He had that great burst, used his body and ran great routes to get open.

It wasn't great burst. It was the fact that the defense had time to make a sandwich before he could even turn around, so they ignored him until he caught the ball, then they finished chewing, swallowed, put down their sandwich and sauntered over and tackled him 3 yards short of the first down marker.

 

[Vegas_Cowboy]

It wasn't great burst. It was the fact that the defense had time to make a sandwich before he could even turn around, so they ignored him until he caught the ball, then they finished chewing, swallowed, put down their sandwich and sauntered over and tackled him 3 yards short of the first down marker.

Ummm. Nobody ignored Jason Witten once they knew he was the real deal. Witten did a great job of finding ways to get open. And you should check the stats for first downs for Witten. He was a first down machine. Your "tackled 3 yards short of the down marker," doesn't fly.

 

[JustChip]

Ummm. Nobody ignored Jason Witten once they knew he was the real deal. Witten did a great job of finding ways to get open. And you should check the stats for first downs for Witten. He was a first down machine. Your "tackled 3 yards short of the down marker," doesn't fly.

Witten's stats by down for 2017 were:

1st down: 24 completions (77.4% completion rate) of which 4 (16.7%) were for 1st downs, 3 were short by 1 yard, and 2 were short by 2 yards
2nd down: 21 completions (75.0% completion rate) of which 13(61.9%) were for 1st downs , none were short by 1 yard, and 2 were short by 2 yards
3rd down: 19 completions (67.9% completion rate) of which 8 (42.1%) were for 1st downs, 6 were short by 1 yard, and 1 was short by 2 yards.

Make what you will of those stats, but passes to Jason moved the chains every other time he was thrown to on 2nd and 3rd down combined (avg. yards to go were 9.7 and 7.5 respectively). Seems pretty good to me, but I honestly don't know how that stacks up against other TEs (or receivers for that matter).

 

[T-RO]

Nice personal attack. But it's a complete whiff, as usual.

It's not about "belief." There is actual technology that actually tracks the players' movement. It's not up for debate. If you think there was some extenuating circumstance that made Witten run extraordinarily fast for one brief second and some reason why Gronkowski never recorded a speed as fast at least 34 tight ends (likely more, given that I checked only 45) on any of his 69 catches, let's hear it.

I expect crickets for a reply.

If it’s not a snarky quip...Risen doesn’t play. Only one club in his golf bag.

 

[BrassCowboy]

Nobody knows if none are as good.


Witten couldn't stretch the seems for years now and his blocking had fallen off too.


With that said... I know nothing about Jarwin but Rico looks like the only player capable of making big plays.


Swaim and Schultz are just typical NFL TE's that every team has. Dime a dozen types.

How do we know that about Shultz yet? He is supposedly a very good blocker, but catching/route running is a mystery not due to history but rather his lack of use in that area.
I am personally thinking Jarwin wins the starting job, but don't think I would count out Shultz just yet
Rico is a long shot that is running low on time to prove himself in the blocking game

 

[Vegas_Cowboy]

Witten's stats by down for 2017 were:

1st down: 24 completions (77.4% completion rate) of which 4 (16.7%) were for 1st downs, 3 were short by 1 yard, and 2 were short by 2 yards
2nd down: 21 completions (75.0% completion rate) of which 13(61.9%) were for 1st downs , none were short by 1 yard, and 2 were short by 2 yards
3rd down: 19 completions (67.9% completion rate) of which 8 (42.1%) were for 1st downs, 6 were short by 1 yard, and 1 was short by 2 yards.

Make what you will of those stats, but passes to Jason moved the chains every other time he was thrown to on 2nd and 3rd down combined (avg. yards to go were 9.7 and 7.5 respectively). Seems pretty good to me, but I honestly don't know how that stacks up against other TEs (or receivers for that matter).

 

[JoeKing]

Nice personal attack. But it's a complete whiff, as usual.




It's not about "belief." There is actual technology that actually tracks the players' movement. It's not up for debate. If you think there was some extenuating circumstance that made Witten run extraordinarily fast for one brief second and some reason why Gronkowski never recorded a speed as fast at least 34 tight ends (likely more, given that I checked only 45) on any of his 69 catches, let's hear it.

So you want to say something stupid like Witten faster than Gronk and not be taken to task about it. NO Homey, that's not happening. You are smoking some grade A stuff to think that's going to fly. I don't care what that technology is saying, it's very flawed if that's what it's telling you.

 

[CATCH17]

So you want to say something stupid like Witten faster than Gronk and not be taken to task about it. NO Homey, that's not happening. You are smoking some grade A stuff to think that's going to fly. I don't care what that technology is saying, it's very flawed if that's what it's telling you.

Gronk is like the Dez Bryant of TE's though. He's just bullying anyone around him for the football. I wouldn't say Gronk is a speed guy.


Rico Gathers potentially has that Gronk type of skill set where he's just going to take the ball away.

 

[McKDaddy]

He averaged 9 yards per catch. Sounds like you need new glasses.

hmmm, averages would suggest they simply throw it to him everytime then. Seems like we would punt less & win more. Wonder why they didn't just do that?

My glasses have the special filters where you factor in down & distance success versus an inflated average.

 

[InTheZone]

I know that pretty much anyone other than a paraplegic could outrun Witten, so I am sure we upped our tight end speed over Witten. But does anyone know if any of these guys has any significant speed. Hanna did, but that ship sailed. Anything close to the 4.5 that's Hanna ran?

I think you're underestimating Wittens speed. Hannah was by far the fastest. If you thought Witten was slow wait until Gathers gets more looks. You won't see many successful short routes his way.

 

[McKDaddy]

A receiver doesn't average 9-10 yards per catch with mostly 3-4 yard completions.

well, funny thing about averages, a few "good" plays scattered in a small sample size makes things appear rosier than they really are. When you have 11 games where you catch 5 balls or less it ain't too hard to skew the numbers.

For instance, catches of 4, 6, 8 & 15 gives a total of 33 yards and an average of 8.25. Yet only one catch was greater than 8 yards.

The real point is in 2017 Witten was no where near a high performer. The eye test easily reveals it. If you want to talk averages you can look at his career worst yards per catch & yards per game (excluding rookie year). Which all relates back to the topic of the thread, his speed was gone. Anything we put on the field this year is younger & faster and at least has a chance to be a better performer than end of career Witten.

 

[OmerV]

well, funny thing about averages, a few "good" plays scattered in a small sample size makes things appear rosier than they really are. When you have 11 games where you catch 5 balls or less it ain't too hard to skew the numbers.

For instance, catches of 4, 6, 8 & 15 gives a total of 33 yards and an average of 8.25. Yet only one catch was greater than 8 yards.

The real point is in 2017 Witten was no where near a high performer. The eye test easily reveals it. If you want to talk averages you can look at his career worst yards per catch & yards per game (excluding rookie year). Which all relates back to the topic of the thread, his speed was gone. Anything we put on the field this year is younger & faster and at least has a chance to be a better performer than end of career Witten.

Thanks for the lesson in averages .... who knew how that worked?

By the way - your example doesn't even refute what I said about Witten not averaging 9 ypc with mostly 3-4 yard catches. and in fact actually supports what I said. After all, your example only reflects 1 of 4 plays in the 3-4 yard range.

And, of course, your example doesn't even get to an average as high as Witten's average, and even as it is it requires 1-4 receptions to be 15 yards which, isn't realistic for Witten. My guess would be that more like 1 out of every 8 was for 15 yards.

The reality is the 3-4 yard claim is just another example of people taking the occasional play that stands out in their head (like a 3-4 yard catch) and simply assuming that because it stood out it has to has to represent the norm.

Obviously Witten hasn't been the same player the last few years he once was (I didn't say he was a "high performer"), but let's cut the nonsense that he was mostly catching 3-4 yard passes.

 

[Cowpolk]

Gronk 4.68
Witten 4.65

 

[McKDaddy]

Thanks for the lesson in averages .... who knew how that worked?

By the way - your example doesn't even refute what I said about Witten not averaging 9 ypc with mostly 3-4 yard catches. and in fact actually supports what I said. After all, your example only reflects 1 of 4 plays in the 3-4 yard range.

And, of course, your example doesn't even get to an average as high as Witten's average, and even as it is it requires 1-4 receptions to be 15 yards which, isn't realistic for Witten. My guess would be that more like 1 out of every 8 was for 15 yards.

The reality is the 3-4 yard claim is just another example of people taking the occasional play that stands out in their head (like a 3-4 yard catch) and simply assuming that because it stood out it has to has to represent the norm.

Obviously Witten hasn't been the same player the last few years he once was (I didn't say he was a "high performer"), but let's cut the nonsense that he was mostly catching 3-4 yard passes.

OmerV, you got me. Even though i showed it mathematically, you have convinced me that there is no way the "majority" of his catches could have been less than his average. The thought that one or two outliers per game could influence the average was just crazy talk.

I will admit I was off on the 3-4 yd claim (which was just off top of my head to illustrate a point). His average target (air travel) was 5.2 with his total average per target was 6.4.

 

[JoeKing]

Gronk is like the Dez Bryant of TE's though. He's just bullying anyone around him for the football. I wouldn't say Gronk is a speed guy.


Rico Gathers potentially has that Gronk type of skill set where he's just going to take the ball away.

I wasn't sure If I should take you serious or not but with that last sentence you lost me. Rico is a novice with the right god given body. You've been fooled if you think that clown has Gronk-like skills. They are both muscular but Gronk knows how to use it and Rico does not.

 

[Whyjerry]

hmmm, averages would suggest they simply throw it to him everytime then. Seems like we would punt less & win more. Wonder why they didn't just do that?

My glasses have the special filters where you factor in down & distance success versus an inflated average.

Really? Sounds more like you build a narrative to justify how you feel about Witten. Classic confirmation bias. The guy is a first round HOFer despite what you think about him.