Tired of Jerry vs Jimmy

[TwoDeep3]

Thread Closed...

tecolote wins the interwebs...

I buy the car, but the mechanic keeps it running.

Do I get credit for buying the car?

Absolutely.

How about me hiring the mechanic.

Yep, that too.

But when the car breaks, and sits idly on the side of the road, not working at all, all my "credit" goes out the window until the mechanic fixes the car.

The Dallas car was broken. Jerry bought it as is. He hired a great mechanic.

Then he stepped out of the shop and allowed the mechanic to work.

To some, Jerry gets credit for hiring the mechanic.

To others, the guy who has the grease on his hands and kept the car at the front of the pack is to be held up as the most important of all.

Now if you want to slide this to the race car analogy, Jimmy picked all the parts to fix it up, turned the wrenches, and drove the car to the finish line.

Jerry signed checks in ink.

 

[OhSnap]

The Hershel Walker trade is where the credit lies.
The talent was so strong that even Switzer got a Super Bowl out of it.

Switzer has 3 national championships to Jimmys 1 and had a 5-3 record against Jimmy as a college coach so it's not like Barry didn't know his way around a locker room.

 

[Deep_South]

Jerry deserves credit for those Super Bowls, but not as much as he thinks he does.

Jimmy deserves credit for those Super Bowls, but not as much as he thinks he does.

Therein lies the problem, IMO.

 

[OhSnap]

They look like Buddy Ryan and Mike Ditka more and more every year.

 

[BigStar]

Why does our success of the early 90's have to belong to one or the other ?
Jerry in my opinion is a great Owner, but not GM.
In the early 90's he was very helpful to Jimmy in a supportive role.
I remember Jerry getting our #1 draft picks signed and in camp on a regular basis.
So why can't we give both credit, as each played their role in those SB Team's accomplishments ?

Because any other owner/gm would've had the same success with the same hire (Jimmy). JJ has made one successful hire (20+ years ago) as an owner/gm, that is the only credit he deserves (in my opinion).

 

[jnday]

The teams if the 90's has been a long term curse in many ways. Jerry has dug in and intends to prove that he can repeat the success if the 90's without Jimmy. He can't . He has run the team into the ground trying to do something that is just about impossible for him to do. Jerry wants a Super Bowl team that he can take full credit for. Jerry wasn't content with owning the team and taking credit for hiring Jimmy. He wants credit for being a "football man" and he wants the respect that comes with it. He has ruined the best franchise in the NFL because of his ego. He is a selfish man.

 

[black label]

I'm just tired of Jerry.

 

[cowboy_ron]

Why does our success of the early 90's have to belong to one or the other ?
Jerry in my opinion is a great Owner, but not GM.
In the early 90's he was very helpful to Jimmy in a supportive role.
I remember Jerry getting our #1 draft picks signed and in camp on a regular basis.
So why can't we give both credit, as each played their role in those SB Team's accomplishments ?

Jerry is a great businessman not owner....a great owner would have fired Jerry the GM long ago

 

[chicago JK]

I listened to Switzer on the ticket's podcast last week. This may be old news but Switzer said when Jerry bought the team he only had two candidates for the head coaching job: Jimmy Johnson and Barry Switzer. It got me thinking how the history of the 90's Cowboys would have been different if Switzer was hired when Jerry bought the team.

 

[JJB500]

I remember listening to an interview with Bill Walsh about the time of the breakup. He basically stated it is a shame they couldn't find a way to work together because they would never have the same success separate as they did together! I guess he was correct..........

 

[DallasEast]

Why does our success of the early 90's have to belong to one or the other ?

Because never debating which man was responsible for the success would eliminate inner anguish. And that would be a bad thing.

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[visionary]

Because the haters never give any thing but over blown criticism with zero acknowledgement of what good Jerry has done.
It's like you guys are the enemy of an opposing team.

i think that would have hurt if i knew what it meant

 

[visionary]

There are only three teams in the NFC that haven't achieved a damn thing in the last 18 years: Washington, Detroit and us. Only one of those franchises has an owner who accepts mediocrity. I'll let you work out who that is.

quoted for truth

this is not that complicated

there are 4 franchises where the owner is (or has been recently) the face and main GM/decision-maker

cowboys
Commanders
raiders
bengals

NONE of these teams have achieved anything significant with this model

then there are 28 other teams that have a different model of decison-making and those teams have won ALL the SBs in the last decade and a half

are there teams who follow this model who have been failures? YES, but this is the ONLY successful model and is not a reflection on the model rather the people running the model

tell me which model you want your team to follow?

the model where your team has a VERY good chance

OR

the model where your team has NO chance?

 

[visionary]

And who hired Jimmy? Without Jerry there is no Jimmy.

this gets brought up a lot so let me put this to bed

look at jerry's decision-making history where football is concerned, he does not hire the most competent person to do the job, he hires the people he "is comfortable with"

he hired jimmy for 2 reasons: 1) jerry knew he was in over his head and needed someone who could handle the football side of things 2) because he and jimmy were buddies

do you think for a second he would have hired jimmy if he and jimmy were not buddies? NO
do you think jerry would have hired jimmy if he felt jimmy would be an 'adequate' coach but was his friend? YES

the reality is that the over-riding quality for which jimmy was hired was that jimmy was jerry's buddy not because he was a great football coach, jerry had no context to be able to evaluate that (even now he has no idea how to evaluate people for their football acumen)

jerry made that decision on the same basis as he has made practically every other football decision: nepotism (give the job to a friend or family member)

it just so happened that jimmy turned out to be a great coach and coming from the college ranks knew the players well and picked the right ones

can you imagine the grief he would have got if jimmy turned out to be a failure? having just unceremoniously fired a living legend in Landry?

jerry used up all his luck the day he hired jimmy but please dont confuse the reasons for that decision, it was very much a result of the same flawed process (nepotism and jerry's comfort level) that has given us a decade and a half of mediocrity

 

[theSHOW]

I'm no "Jerry" guy... nor am I a "Jimmy" guy...

The fact of the matter is that the football gods came together for our early 90's run and it was glorious.

Jimmy got his wish in Miami and had good teams but also suffered the worst playoff loss in history...

The bottom line is these two are intrinsically joined. Great together, not so much apart...

 

[coogrfan]

Looks to me like its 3 owners, not just one.

GM's and/or VP's of Football operations since 1996:

Washington
[SIZE=+0]Charley Casserly[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]Commanders[/SIZE] 1989 1999 General Manager
[SIZE=+0]Vinny Cerrato[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]Commanders[/SIZE] 2000 2009 Director of Player Personnel, Executive VP of Player Personnel/Football Operations
[SIZE=+0]Marty Schottenheimer[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]Commanders[/SIZE] 2001 2001 Head Coach/de facto General Manager
[SIZE=+0]Joe Mendes[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]Commanders[/SIZE] 2002 2002 VP of Football Operations
[SIZE=+0]Bruce Allen[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]Commanders[/SIZE] 2010 2013 Executive VP/General Manager

Detroit
[SIZE=+0]Chuck Schmidt[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]Lions[/SIZE] 1989 2000 General Manager
[SIZE=+0]Matt Millen[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]Lions[/SIZE] 2001 2007 President, President/General Manager
[SIZE=+0]Bill Tobin[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]Lions[/SIZE] 2001 2002 Director of Player Personnel
[SIZE=+0]Martin Mayhew[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]Lions[/SIZE] 2008 2013 Executive VP of Football Operations/General Manager, Senior VP/General Manager

Dallas
You know who...

None of us have achieved much of anything, but at least their owners have tried making changes at the top.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I'm no "Jerry" guy... nor am I a "Jimmy" guy...

The fact of the matter is that the football gods came together for our early 90's run and it was glorious.

Jimmy got his wish in Miami and had good teams but also suffered the worst playoff loss in history...

The bottom line is these two are intrinsically joined. Great together, not so much apart...

Jimmy was the god and Jerry didn't even qualify as demigod.



Marino was no Aikman.

 

[waving monkey]

i think that would have hurt if i knew what it meant

I think it means the enemies of my enemies are my friends
In the heat of retort I lost my articles and prepositions

 

[waving monkey]

Jimmy was the god and Jerry didn't even qualify as demigod.

and the beat goes on

Marino was no Aikman.

 

[OhSnap]

GM's and/or VP's of Football operations since 1996:

Washington
[SIZE=+0]Charley Casserly[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]Commanders[/SIZE] 1989 1999 General Manager
[SIZE=+0]Vinny Cerrato[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]Commanders[/SIZE] 2000 2009 Director of Player Personnel, Executive VP of Player Personnel/Football Operations
[SIZE=+0]Marty Schottenheimer[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]Commanders[/SIZE] 2001 2001 Head Coach/de facto General Manager
[SIZE=+0]Joe Mendes[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]Commanders[/SIZE] 2002 2002 VP of Football Operations
[SIZE=+0]Bruce Allen[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]Commanders[/SIZE] 2010 2013 Executive VP/General Manager

Detroit
[SIZE=+0]Chuck Schmidt[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]Lions[/SIZE] 1989 2000 General Manager
[SIZE=+0]Matt Millen[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]Lions[/SIZE] 2001 2007 President, President/General Manager
[SIZE=+0]Bill Tobin[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]Lions[/SIZE] 2001 2002 Director of Player Personnel
[SIZE=+0]Martin Mayhew[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]Lions[/SIZE] 2008 2013 Executive VP of Football Operations/General Manager, Senior VP/General Manager

Dallas
You know who...

None of us have achieved much of anything, but at least their owners have tried making changes at the top.

I'm not sure your making the point you meant to make with this. If Jerry had hired Matt Millen for 8 years there would be a 100% agreement that he is the worst owner in the league. At least now some people will begrudgingly admit he's pretty good as an owner.