CFZ Tony Pollard vs Saquon Barkley

Mac_MaloneV1

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Dallas averaged 32 carries a game last year. McCarthy indicated he’s expecting that number to go up. If Pollard is projected to get less than half the carries, there’s no way you can call him a feature back. That’s a committee.
Only way it goes up is if Dallas is blowing teams out consistently.

But the point is that number/percentage of carries is the wrong way to evaluate a feature back. It's total touches.

Dallas could run the ball 40 times a game but if TP is getting 15 carries and 5 catches, that's still heavy feature back usage.
 

blueblood70

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and geno smith led the league in completion pct last year lol. whoopty doo. i love pollard and hope he smokes barkley this year but barkley is a far better player/talent
using the word far is the problem here there isn't that big a gap are you kidding me Pollard yards per carry his explosiveness and big plays almost match Barkley they're very similar in their games maybe not their lower bodies but Tony Pollard is being underrated here which is crazy and then you have people overrating calling saquon Barkley generational when his numbers do not look like that at all he just looks like a very good to great running back and so does Tony Pollard and many others right now that are not elite and they're not generational they're just really good you say that word for the special players not the ones who are just really good...
 

stilltheguru

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using the word far is the problem here there isn't that big a gap are you kidding me Pollard yards per carry his explosiveness and big plays almost match Barkley they're very similar in their games maybe not their lower bodies but Tony Pollard is being underrated here which is crazy and then you have people overrating calling saquon Barkley generational when his numbers do not look like that at all he just looks like a very good to great running back and so does Tony Pollard and many others right now that are not elite and they're not generational they're just really good you say that word for the special players not the ones who are just really good...
That was my only issue. The by far and not close garbage. These dudes can't back up how far Barkley is better so they keep going in circles instead of saying they may have exaggerated lol even though I personally think they're just wrong and Pollard is better. But he does nothing better than Barkley? Laughable
 

SteveTheCowboy

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using the word far is the problem here there isn't that big a gap are you kidding me Pollard yards per carry his explosiveness and big plays almost match Barkley they're very similar in their games maybe not their lower bodies but Tony Pollard is being underrated here which is crazy and then you have people overrating calling saquon Barkley generational when his numbers do not look like that at all he just looks like a very good to great running back and so does Tony Pollard and many others right now that are not elite and they're not generational they're just really good you say that word for the special players not the ones who are just really good...
Tony's a good RB, but until you are the "featured" #1 RB and get full on game planned...its just potential. Regardless of "committee".

I think he CAN do it...if we have improved the o-line enough to not need a "FB" to help all the time. But facts is facts.
 

blueblood70

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Tony's a good RB, but until you are the "featured" #1 RB and get full on game planned...its just potential. Regardless of "committee".

I think he CAN do it...if we have improved the o-line enough to not need a "FB" to help all the time. But facts is facts.
We both know all you can go by is what they've done up to this point and we've seen what Tony Pollard can do we've seen his skill set and it is very close to saquan Barclays regardless of he hasn't been the clear number one.. Of course that will prove itself out but right now all we have to go by is what we're going by and I think most of us who say there's not that big a gap are correct.. Now at the end of the season if you wanna go back and revisit this and it turns out Tony Pollard can't do it then we will say that but right now we're going by what we've seen.
 
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EPL0c0

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A healthy Saquon is significantly better than a healthy Pollard.

Different backs completely.
Agreed. I'd compare Pollard more to Aaron Jones.

I think Jones may be better running between the tackles, but both show similar burst, elusiveness, hands, pass catching ability. Jones plays bigger than his 5'9 frame, Pollard has an advantage there at 6'

Aaron Jones wasn't much of a pass protector in college, but he's developed that skill. I hope Pollard can do the same.
 

SuperBowlz

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Yes I did I said their skill sets are very similar I mean if you see the moves all through college for deuce Vaughn and you look at players like Barclay and McCaffrey and even Barry Sanders the guys like that tend to lose yards behind the LOS more than your prototypical power back like Emmitt Smith Anna Ezekiel Elliott...

Yes I did if you have a problem with it go look at the highlights in college the man can play some football I'm not saying they have the same body type and they can handle the same load but they got the same game their games are very similar they need the carries to eventually break the big one to level out their yards per Kerry averages.. Mini game saquon Barkley played even the Dallas Cowboys he had under three yards per carry until he got a screen pass or broke a big play for 40 yards and all of a sudden it looked like he had a very nice yards per carry average when he really didn't I'm saying in that way the way they like to make moves and the whole multiple moves on the same play they tend to lose yardage but at the same time they have the ability to break a big one..

So yes I think duce fallen has similar games to all those guys I just mentioned Barry Sanders ask type moves he's not a power back he's a guy that can move twist turn spin on the same damn play make you miss make you catch ghosts.. Have you got a problem with it I don't care I've been watching a lot of football I watched this kid play I wasn't a fan of his in college but I know as a Longhorn fan how dominant he was for such a little guy he has that same type of game he just won't have the carries therefore he won't have the same yardage output but the man's gonna make those same plays throughout a 17 game season he's gonna wow you at times...
If he's the type to not consistently make positive plays he will be a complete bust cause he won't get more then 5 touches a game through out his career. Saquon is big and powerful and wears out OLines, Duece will never be that type. A dream scenario he would turn out as a Darren Sproles type that came in a couple plays a game and hurt you. But they aren't going to keeping feeding him the ball til he breaks a long run. He needs to come in on 3rd and long screens and make a big play.
 

erod

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You are ideologically opposed to statistics. I use them as a matter of course. We are never going to see eye to eye.

Logic is going from a premise and making a conclusion to another premise based on axioms. The premise can be statistical or observational but that is hardly exhaustive.

Of course you can make a stat like missed tackles from defenders and situations Erod approves of too. Of course that outlines your subjectivity but it would meet your criteria. There is a point to sample size and common opponents but at the end of the day if a defender makes contact and fails to bring the ball carrier down it is an objective call.

I do like how you go from discounting stats to cherry picking stats that you like. you essentially undermine your first three paragraphs.

I really do not believe a priori knowledge to be valid and man's instincts are at best inconsistent.
The stats I mentioned aren't cherry-picked. They're the ONLY stats that consistently relate to game outcomes.

The rest are just trivial number gymnastics to talk about for fun, which is fine, but they don't mean anything.
 

SuperBowlz

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Agreed. I'd compare Pollard more to Aaron Jones.

I think Jones may be better running between the tackles, but both show similar burst, elusiveness, hands, pass catching ability. Jones plays bigger than his 5'9 frame, Pollard has an advantage there at 6'

Aaron Jones wasn't much of a pass protector in college, but he's developed that skill. I hope Pollard can do the same.
I agree. I see no comparison to a bruising feature back who has accumulated 4300 yards, 247 catches for nearly 2000 yards in 4 season to a part time, change of pace back with 1/2 the carries, half the yards and half the catches. Pollard is a fantastic player but we have no idea if he can carry the load while also be effective in pass protection.
 

McKDaddy

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That's evidence of what? What does that prove regarding Barkley and pollard? You don't know what evidence is. Just say that
Yeah, I'm the one struggling to understand evidence. :lmao:

You post how many times TP has put up those numbers or is projected to put up those numbers.

What you want to believe about what Tony can do in a featured role aren't facts. Hopefully he will blow the doors off. But as of now only one of the two players has been there & done that.
 

blueblood70

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If he's the type to not consistently make positive plays he will be a complete bust cause he won't get more then 5 touches a game through out his career. Saquon is big and powerful and wears out OLines, Duece will never be that type. A dream scenario he would turn out as a Darren Sproles type that came in a couple plays a game and hurt you. But they aren't going to keeping feeding him the ball til he breaks a long run. He needs to come in on 3rd and long screens and make a big play.
WON'T Get more than 5 touches ?? lmao umm ok nostradamus.. :facepalm: :huh::popcorn:

First of all you must be in New York giant fan, I'll probably ignore you anyway...

you know put you on ignore my block list...

I'm not dealing with other people's fans in here...

however you use these words that are set in concrete.... you think that deuce Vaughn won't get more than five touches a game, hmm are you kidding me you don't even know if that's going to hold true or not he could get 10 he could even get 15 if Tony power gets hurt you think of his size he won't be able to deal with it and I'm telling you we saw him in a big time college setting be able to do it 5000 scrimmage yards in college, he was the leading running back in the draft for receiving yards, MVP of the big12 CG he ruined TCU regular season. You do realize even though there is some comparisons to Darren Sproles, that doesn't mean it's gonna parallel that he could be a better back than Darren Sproles possibly that's why you gotta keep it open these concrete words like won't or just ridiculous because it's your opinion doesn't make it set in stone you're guessing and we already seen how brittle Saquon Barkley and Christian McCaffrey and Kamara are at their size but yeah I don't see any injury history for deuce Vaughn.​
it's not like he played for Saint Mary's Division Three school, bro... he played in the Big 12, he played well against Oklahoma, Texas, and Alabama Plus again beat TCU and was the Big 12 championship game MVP, the man has played real snaps. he's not a gimmick guy.​
So no one knows right now what he can or can't do or what the Cowboys plan for him but to say he's only gonna get five touches is ridiculous he may be like that the first three games or so but when he makes a big player too just like Tony Pollard worked his way into the lineup more and more because he forced his way in he made the coaches take Elliot off the field more than they wanted to.. And that could very much well happen with deuce Vaughn because you're sleeping on the guy it's ridiculous that you're gonna say won't get more than five snaps that's insane.. He was a full time starter at running back in college 5000 scrimmage yards that we need to keep talking about the fact that he's not injury prone so his size has not mattered up to this point...​

I mean Barry Sanders wasn't that much bigger than deuce Vaughn I know there is some difference but it wasn't that big as you think we're talking about maybe 2 1/2 inches and 10 or 15 pounds. Induce Vaughn runs very similarly to these other guys so his size may not even be a problem he may end up being better than Darren Sproles as an NFL player we just don't know that sometimes it's a man's makeup how he keeps his body you know like the difference between Terrell Owens and some of the other guys it was noticeable of how he use nutrition and the latest and greatest technologies to keep himself in shape there are some guys even if they look similar that they can handle more because of the way they take care of themselves and the fact is deuce Vaughn came from a sports family his father and other family members play big time sports.. That may well help him be slightly better than even Darren Sproles he just needs his chance and the words won't not work with me....

so let's just let the season play out, we can revisit this conversation after the season, who was closer to being correct...
 

SteveTheCowboy

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We both know all you can go by is what they've done up to this point and we've seen what Tony Pollard can do we've seen his skill set and it is very close to saquan Barclays regardless of he hasn't been the clear number one.. Of course that will prove itself out but right now all we have to go by is what we're going by and I think most of us who say there's not that big a gap are correct.. Now at the end of the season if you wanna go back and revisit this and it turns out Tony Pollard can't do it then we will say that but right now we're going by what we've seen.
"we "both" know all can you go by what they have done up to this point"?


That is the dumbest thing I ever heard.

I mean really dumb.

If YOU...are "going by what they have done to this point":....then you would agree with me not argue.

When has tony excelled as the #1 RB?

Ever? "to this point"?

Now...before you go ape**** on me.....I am not saying he can't. I think he might be one of the first Cowboys #2 RB in a long time to kick ***. But he's never done it..."up to this point".

And...for the record...I'd take Tony in a heart beat over Barkley.

Am I clear on this? I know...might be too complicated for you...fine. So be it.
 

SuperBowlz

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WON'T Get more than 5 touches ?? lmao umm ok nostradamus.. :facepalm: :huh::popcorn:

First of all you must be in New York giant fan, I'll probably ignore you anyway...

you know put you on ignore my block list...

I'm not dealing with other people's fans in here...

however you use these words that are set in concrete.... you think that deuce Vaughn won't get more than five touches a game, hmm are you kidding me you don't even know if that's going to hold true or not he could get 10 he could even get 15 if Tony power gets hurt you think of his size he won't be able to deal with it and I'm telling you we saw him in a big time college setting be able to do it 5000 scrimmage yards in college, he was the leading running back in the draft for receiving yards, MVP of the big12 CG he ruined TCU regular season. You do realize even though there is some comparisons to Darren Sproles, that doesn't mean it's gonna parallel that he could be a better back than Darren Sproles possibly that's why you gotta keep it open these concrete words like won't or just ridiculous because it's your opinion doesn't make it set in stone you're guessing and we already seen how brittle Saquon Barkley and Christian McCaffrey and Kamara are at their size but yeah I don't see any injury history for deuce Vaughn.​
it's not like he played for Saint Mary's Division Three school, bro... he played in the Big 12, he played well against Oklahoma, Texas, and Alabama Plus again beat TCU and was the Big 12 championship game MVP, the man has played real snaps. he's not a gimmick guy.​
So no one knows right now what he can or can't do or what the Cowboys plan for him but to say he's only gonna get five touches is ridiculous he may be like that the first three games or so but when he makes a big player too just like Tony Pollard worked his way into the lineup more and more because he forced his way in he made the coaches take Elliot off the field more than they wanted to.. And that could very much well happen with deuce Vaughn because you're sleeping on the guy it's ridiculous that you're gonna say won't get more than five snaps that's insane.. He was a full time starter at running back in college 5000 scrimmage yards that we need to keep talking about the fact that he's not injury prone so his size has not mattered up to this point...​

I mean Barry Sanders wasn't that much bigger than deuce Vaughn I know there is some difference but it wasn't that big as you think we're talking about maybe 2 1/2 inches and 10 or 15 pounds. Induce Vaughn runs very similarly to these other guys so his size may not even be a problem he may end up being better than Darren Sproles as an NFL player we just don't know that sometimes it's a man's makeup how he keeps his body you know like the difference between Terrell Owens and some of the other guys it was noticeable of how he use nutrition and the latest and greatest technologies to keep himself in shape there are some guys even if they look similar that they can handle more because of the way they take care of themselves and the fact is deuce Vaughn came from a sports family his father and other family members play big time sports.. That may well help him be slightly better than even Darren Sproles he just needs his chance and the words won't not work with me....

so let's just let the season play out, we can revisit this conversation after the season, who was closer to being correct...
You are welcome to your opinion and there's no need to be upset about my opinion. There's a reason he went late after putting up those prolific numbers. He's just too small to get a lot of carries. I mean he's still a long shot to even get a few carries because outside of a great run in preseason he pretty much got shut down.
 

speedkilz88

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I agree. I see no comparison to a bruising feature back who has accumulated 4300 yards, 247 catches for nearly 2000 yards in 4 season to a part time, change of pace back with 1/2 the carries, half the yards and half the catches. Pollard is a fantastic player but we have no idea if he can carry the load while also be effective in pass protection.
Pollard was above average in pass protection last year in Kellen's offense. (pff graded him better than Zeke) McCarthy's offense doesn't ask as much of the RBs because the ball is out quicker. They will more often be sent out on routes.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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The stats I mentioned aren't cherry-picked. They're the ONLY stats that consistently relate to game outcomes.

The rest are just trivial number gymnastics to talk about for fun, which is fine, but they don't mean anything.
You mean wins and they just correlate better. Football is a complex game with many contributing factors. And yeah they were cherry picked based on your preference.
 

blueblood70

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"we "both" know all can you go by what they have done up to this point"?


That is the dumbest thing I ever heard.

I mean really dumb.

If YOU...are "going by what they have done to this point":....then you would agree with me not argue.

When has tony excelled as the #1 RB?

Ever? "to this point"?

Now...before you go ape**** on me.....I am not saying he can't. I think he might be one of the first Cowboys #2 RB in a long time to kick ***. But he's never done it..."up to this point".

And...for the record...I'd take Tony in a heart beat over Barkley.

Am I clear on this? I know...might be too complicated for you...fine. So be it.
no you are not, go away, you still butthurt EZ is a Pat so you response with name calling must be called out. Its a fact... is it a fact because you can only use all relative stats you have up to this point, numbers IE tony pollard say he is very close to SB in all ways.. he literally nearly split the Carries & still put up Christian McCaffrey type numbers. you don't think by then defenses were keying on TP or u think oh hes 2 let's ignored him..lol i'm sorry that i'm looking at this unbiased & can put McCaffrey, kamara, Barkley and tony pollard in the same sentence as very very close in type of back and production.
 

blueblood70

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You are welcome to your opinion and there's no need to be upset about my opinion. There's a reason he went late after putting up those prolific numbers. He's just too small to get a lot of carries. I mean he's still a long shot to even get a few carries because outside of a great run in preseason he pretty much got shut down.
you mean like the other hundreds of players that were simply overlooked?? you think that that's not unheard of ....the ones that went in the first round. FACT. Brady, purdy, romo, warner just to name few been few RBs also

Terrell Davis was selected in the sixth round, 196th player overall, of the 1995 NFL Draft by the Denver Broncos. The little-known back made a big splash when earned a starting role at tailback as a rookie.​


if i had time this morning i bet i can find 50 more examples on where in the draft on how his NFL career is going to go high or low....but the lance vs warner is very interesting huh? you do realize GM's make mistakes scouts miss players..

Next dumb narrative to bust??
 

blueblood70

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You are welcome to your opinion and there's no need to be upset about my opinion. There's a reason he went late after putting up those prolific numbers. He's just too small to get a lot of carries. I mean he's still a long shot to even get a few carries because outside of a great run in preseason he pretty much got shut down.
651 carries

During his three-year career at Kansas State, Vaughn was a very productive runner and pass catcher. He totaled 651 carries for 3,604 yards and 34 rushing touchdowns.

all those carrie, NOT Injury Prone.. show me his injury history.. and you trying to convince me all those carries against Texas and Oklahoma even Alabama along with over 2500yards in receiving he did it against no big time defensive players with size?? lmao i believe a lot of those big-time players made it to the NFL as well...
 

CWR

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"we "both" know all can you go by what they have done up to this point"?


That is the dumbest thing I ever heard.

I mean really dumb.

If YOU...are "going by what they have done to this point":....then you would agree with me not argue.

When has tony excelled as the #1 RB?

Ever? "to this point"?

Now...before you go ape**** on me.....I am not saying he can't. I think he might be one of the first Cowboys #2 RB in a long time to kick ***. But he's never done it..."up to this point".

And...for the record...I'd take Tony in a heart beat over Barkley.

Am I clear on this? I know...might be too complicated for you...fine. So be it.

Tony Pollard has 68 carries for 420 yards and has scored 8 touchdowns in 6 games as a starter in his career.

I understand your point though. It's a very limited sample size and he needs to show what he can do over the course of a season.

Pretty much he's excelled whenever he got the opportunity. We just need to see him with more opportunity. Indeed he will be proving himself this year, or not.
 
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