CFZ Tony Pollard vs Saquon Barkley

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And you think PFF statistics hold merit. Comical.

Broken tackle stats are fine. If a defender makes contact and the ball carrier fails to go down is not hard to discern.

The issue is mainly their coverage stats where they assign responsibility to the closest defender. Prima facie that leaves our broken coverage and demerits players for trying ot compensate for teammate failures.

That and their grades which are essentially opinion polls put through an unknown formula to make it more marketable.

 

[stilltheguru]

And you think PFF statistics hold merit. Comical.

Who mentioned pff or fantasy football? Lol. You're terrible at this

 

[McKDaddy]

And your "when healthy" comment implies that he is just as he as when he heals up. He basically was given the Zeke treatment last year with 295 carries after already beginning to break down.

i don't think you appreciate what kind of toll that implies and what that does to future athletic ability. We just watched Zeke who was a tremendous athlete get ran into the ground.

You can argue however you like but you are not making arguments so much as assertions. IMO, he has given pretty compelling stats that Barkley is diminished from what he was.

Everyone agrees Barkley has had health issues. However, in 2022 he still put up 1,650 scrimmage yards and his longest run was 68 yards while generating 72 first downs. In three of his 5 years in the league his long runs are 78, 68 & 68. Last years performance does not indicate a player that is significantly diminished.

The OP acknowledged that Barkley is still a complete back he simply said Pollard has some skills too. I'm not sure how "Guru" has gotten so worked up in trying to devise a narrative that Barkley is broken down & unproductive.

 

[stilltheguru]

Everyone agrees Barkley has had health issues. However, in 2022 he still put up 1,650 scrimmage yards and his longest run was 68 yards while generating 72 first downs. In three of his 5 years in the league his long runs are 78, 68 & 68. Last years performance does not indicate a player that is significantly diminished.

The OP acknowledged that Barkley is still a complete back he simply said Pollard has some skills too. I'm not sure how "Guru" has gotten so worked up in trying to devise a narrative that Barkley is broken down & unproductive.

I said he was broke down and unproductive? Lol when you're losing you gotta make up things.

 

[stilltheguru]

Imagine being a Cowboy fan and doing everything in your power to defend Barkley. Yikes

 

[erod]

Imagine being a Cowboy fan and doing everything in your power to defend Barkley. Yikes

Imagine being a Cowboy fan and being so blinded by anything that doesn't have a star on it that you can't reason.

 

[stilltheguru]

Imagine being a Cowboy fan and being so blinded by anything that doesn't have a star on it that you can't reason.

The evidence is so blinding. Don't want to make up more things I see. Lol but I'm done here. I see you will never admit to being clueless so have at it

 

[erod]

Broken tackle stats are fine. If a defender makes contact and the ball carrier fails to go down is not hard to discern.

The issue is mainly their coverage stats where they assign responsibility to the closest defender. Prima facie that leaves our broken coverage and demerits players for trying ot compensate for teammate failures.

That and their grades which are essentially opinion polls put through an unknown formula to make it more marketable.

So all attempted tackles are the same, and all broken tackles are the same. Never mind who the tackler was or the situation. Nope, they're all the same. And never mind the angle of the tackle, whether the tackler got both arms around the ball carrier or just a forearm. Never mind if the tackler was also being blocked at the time. Never mind if the tackler was a starting linebacker or a third-string cornerback. Never mind if the game is already decided. Just never mind all that.

Statistics simply tell nothing. They're compiled by the fat guys eating donuts in the press box. There are more stat categories now than their are players in the NFL. It's beyond absurd.

Logic is watching a play and knowing when you've seen a great run or a great game's worth of running. You don't need to count how many guys touched him, what his acceleration rate was, or how many steps it took him to get there. You just know it.

I pay attention to these stats:

• Turnover ratio, because there are only so many possessions in a game
• Red zone percentage, because field goals are wins in the NFL for defense these days
• 3rd down and 4th down percentages, because again, there are only so many possessions in a game
• The final score, obviously.

The rest are sometimes telling, sometimes not, and other times all in between. People blabber on about time of possession, for instance, when that tells very little. I've seen teams score 21 straight points without a single second of time of possession. The QB with the most passing yards almost always loses. Garbage time stats are a quarter of the passing yardage in the league.

And when something is so painfully obvious as the statement that "Barkley, when healthy, is a more complete and productive back than Pollard" comes into question because of "stats", it proves what I'm saying completely.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So all attempted tackles are the same, and all broken tackles are the same. Never mind who the tackler was or the situation. Nope, they're all the same. And never mind the angle of the tackle, whether the tackler got both arms around the ball carrier or just a forearm. Never mind if the tackler was also being blocked at the time. Never mind if the tackler was a starting linebacker or a third-string cornerback. Never mind if the game is already decided. Just never mind all that.

Statistics simply tell nothing. They're compiled by the fat guys eating donuts in the press box. There are more stat categories now than their are players in the NFL. It's beyond absurd.

Logic is watching a play and knowing when you've seen a great run or a great game's worth of running. You don't need to count how many guys touched him, what his acceleration rate was, or how many steps it took him to get there. You just know it.

I pay attention to these stats:

• Turnover ratio, because there are only so many possessions in a game
• Red zone percentage, because field goals are wins in the NFL for defense these days
• 3rd down and 4th down percentages, because again, there are only so many possessions in a game
• The final score, obviously.

The rest are sometimes telling, sometimes not, and other times all in between. People blabber on about time of possession, for instance, when that tells very little. I've seen teams score 21 straight points without a single second of time of possession. The QB with the most passing yards almost always loses. Garbage time stats are a quarter of the passing yardage in the league.

And when something is so painfully obvious as the statement that "Barkley, when healthy, is a more complete and productive back than Pollard" comes into question because of "stats", it proves what I'm saying completely.

You are ideologically opposed to statistics. I use them as a matter of course. We are never going to see eye to eye.

Logic is going from a premise and making a conclusion to another premise based on axioms. The premise can be statistical or observational but that is hardly exhaustive.

Of course you can make a stat like missed tackles from defenders and situations Erod approves of too. Of course that outlines your subjectivity but it would meet your criteria. There is a point to sample size and common opponents but at the end of the day if a defender makes contact and fails to bring the ball carrier down it is an objective call.

I do like how you go from discounting stats to cherry picking stats that you like. you essentially undermine your first three paragraphs.

I really do not believe a priori knowledge to be valid and man's instincts are at best inconsistent.

 

[McKDaddy]

I said he was broke down and unproductive? Lol when you're losing you gotta make up things.

Do you acknowledge the factual evidence of his 2022 performance?

 

[stilltheguru]

Do you acknowledge the factual evidence of his 2022 performance?

Yall weird. If you don't want to bring any evidence besides "just watch, it's obvious " then we have nothing to discuss. You never lose debates thinking how you and nimrod think

 

[SuperBowlz]

why would we considered moving on from Pollard after this year ?

Cause he's a RB

 

[SuperBowlz]

Right but we have a smaller version of saquon Barkley in Vaughan that's a fact they are very similar runners just once a little bigger and can take a little bit more carries the let's not act like saquon Barkley is not a player who was injury prone early in his career and one of the runners who sometimes has a lot of negative yard carries and needs that big play.. So I'll take our running back room over saquon Barkley..

But if we want to stay on Tony Pollard versus Barkley, Tony Pollard had every bit of solid season last year splitting carries with zeke as Christian McCaffrey who makes how much money and is looked at as who in this league?? I mean isn't Christian McCaffrey and Saquon Barkley compared sometimes??

so maybe you're off a bit no one saying Tony Pollard is the exact same as Barkley but he is as effective and productive that's the point the OP was trying to make we have a threat at running back and I'll go further like I said above we have a better running back room..

And I'll go a step further we have a better team...

Now back to Cowboy Fandom...

Wait... did you just compare Vaughn to Barkley?

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

You can’t pay a RB 10m$ to be a rotational guy, whether or not that’s “what he is.”

The fact that Dallas didn’t bring in another starting-caliber veteran further solidifies they’re going to attempt to give Pollard a feature role.

You're just missing the point on what a featured role actually is.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

You're just missing the point on what a featured role actually is.

Dallas averaged 32 carries a game last year. McCarthy indicated he’s expecting that number to go up. If Pollard is projected to get less than half the carries, there’s no way you can call him a feature back. That’s a committee.

 

[McKDaddy]

Yall weird. If you don't want to bring any evidence besides "just watch, it's obvious " then we have nothing to discuss. You never lose debates thinking how you and nimrod think

I have brought evidence. People like you just ignore any counter points & keep peddling their version of the "facts". When that stops working they resort to "posts" like this.

 

[stilltheguru]

I have brought evidence. People like you just ignore any counter points & keep peddling their version of the "facts". When that stops working they resort to "posts" like this.

You haven't brought a shred of evidence besides your eye test. Loser type nonsense

 

[McKDaddy]

You haven't brought a shred of evidence besides your eye test. Loser type nonsense

If you insist on keeping the beating going, I refer you to post #103. Not the only facts I have offered .... but more than enough for everyone here to see who is the sore loser in this conversation.

 

[blueblood70]

Wait... did you just compare Vaughn to Barkley?

Yes I did I said their skill sets are very similar I mean if you see the moves all through college for deuce Vaughn and you look at players like Barclay and McCaffrey and even Barry Sanders the guys like that tend to lose yards behind the LOS more than your prototypical power back like Emmitt Smith Anna Ezekiel Elliott...

Yes I did if you have a problem with it go look at the highlights in college the man can play some football I'm not saying they have the same body type and they can handle the same load but they got the same game their games are very similar they need the carries to eventually break the big one to level out their yards per Kerry averages.. Mini game saquon Barkley played even the Dallas Cowboys he had under three yards per carry until he got a screen pass or broke a big play for 40 yards and all of a sudden it looked like he had a very nice yards per carry average when he really didn't I'm saying in that way the way they like to make moves and the whole multiple moves on the same play they tend to lose yardage but at the same time they have the ability to break a big one..

So yes I think duce fallen has similar games to all those guys I just mentioned Barry Sanders ask type moves he's not a power back he's a guy that can move twist turn spin on the same damn play make you miss make you catch ghosts.. Have you got a problem with it I don't care I've been watching a lot of football I watched this kid play I wasn't a fan of his in college but I know as a Longhorn fan how dominant he was for such a little guy he has that same type of game he just won't have the carries therefore he won't have the same yardage output but the man's gonna make those same plays throughout a 17 game season he's gonna wow you at times...

 

[stilltheguru]

If you insist on keeping the beating going, I refer you to post #103. Not the only facts I have offered .... but more than enough for everyone here to see who is the sore loser in this conversation.

That's evidence of what? What does that prove regarding Barkley and pollard? You don't know what evidence is. Just say that