Tony Romo, Wed night and Premature Emasculation

[rcaldw]

I swear this has been the most weak minded, weak willed organization in football for about 17 years now. And it shows up in the fan base too. Who starts posting excuses for interceptions before they happen?!!!!

My view of Tony is simple. He plays well most of the time. He puts up great numbers. He is prone to BACK BREAKING mistakes. Now you can spin that any way you want, that is the absolute truth.

Tony will take the next step when the 3rd element is eliminated. Jimmy Johnson used to say that the team that won wasn't always the team that made the most good plays but the team that made the fewest bad ones. (Or some version of that.)

I'm a Romo fan, but to this point Tony has not done a good job of eliminating big mistakes in the biggest moments. Just hasn't. THIS IS THE YEAR. AND IT STARTS TOMORROW NIGHT!

 

[DandyDon1722]

Who says we are not giving him credit?

I just dislike built in excuses for the guy as well. Even in '09 he threw a game away against the G-Men.

Your star QB is supposed to know situational football and that when you are in the situations we were in against the Jets and Lions last year, that the LAST thing you want to do is turn the ball over. He did not understand that last year until after the Lions game and he has a tendency at the very least to do it every year for 1-2 games.

It's not about poor play and having an off game as it is about throwing away the game where Romo and the rest of the team worked together to build the lead. If you are the star QB, who many people on this forum believe is an elite QB, a big part of your role is to be able to close the game out as well. Too many times Romo has coughed up the game and I honestly don't have anything to make me believe he won't do this again 1-2 times this year.

I am tired of the built in excuses for the guy. I am tired of seeing *Romo* screw up with a pre-snap read or not seeing an open receiver or snapping it every time with .000001 seconds on the play clock and the O-Line always getting the blame and Romo escaping the blame. He needs to do a better and quicker job with his pre-snap reads, get the entire offense in a good flow and throw the defense out of their rhythm. He needs to protect the ball when we absolutely must protect the football.

If he throws a pick like the 2nd INT in the Lions game, I don't blame him. It was Robinson's fault.

But what I get tired of seeing is something like I saw in the Tampa game where Miles was wide open, Romo missed him, then Romo backed up out of the pocket which a QB should never do, bumped into his O-Lineman, escaped some tacklers and then threw it Miles for a TD and everybody blamed the 'lousy O-Line' for Romo's mistakes.

As much as there are fans who are willing to blame Romo for anything, there are just as many fans who find no fault and have excuses for him as well. I just want the team to win and put the fault at the players who deserve blame for failure.



Rick I like your posts but man you lose so much credibility with this stance because so many things you throw out are wrong. Here's one...

According to CouchScout Romo's pre snap reads are second only to Peyton Manning in league circles. Does he make mistakes in pre-snap reads? YES, everybody does, but to throw that out there and say you're tired of his wrong reads tells everyone there's no way around the fact that Tony sticks in your craw and you are in a constant battle with your dislike for him and your love of the team.

I try to think how I would be writing about Craig Morton (who I hated) if message boards existed back then but Romo has more talent in his little finger than Morton. Maybe Danny White is a better example but I always believed in him even though he didn't get it done, he could have.

I just don't understand.

 

[T-RO]

Some of you people lack the intellectual sophistication to distinguish causality from excuse.

Where did I ever defend Romo for the Jets or the Lions game?

Although even in the Jets game last year...the pick that everybody gets so upset about... where Tony throws the ball to Dez, assuming Dez has the physical tools to win a one-on-one with Revis.

Dez, running on a bad leg didn't even come back to the ball, let alone fight for it.

Romo probably should have thrown that one way...but you can't look at it in such black and white...because Tony was expecting Dez to do his job. Dez didn't.

Once again quarterbacks can't wait for receivers to be open. They have to anticipate. When a receiver doesn't do his job...then the pass looks utterly foolish.

Causality people. Try to understand it. Some of you just want to drink yourself crazy and watch football. And rage with abandon at the TV when something unhappy happens. That's fine, I guess, if you want to be an average (numskull) fan.

 

[T-RO]

T-Ro is saying that Romo might need a little protection up front.
numskulls: What an excuse!

T-Ro is saying that Romo might need a center who can snap the ball
numskulls: What an excuse!

T-Ro is saying that Romo releases the ball...like all NFL quarterbacks...in complete trust that his receiver will run his route and...in context...come back to the ball
numskulls: What an excuse!

T-Ro is also now saying that Romo has been undermined by Jerry Jones refusal to fortify the offense, who generally every year drafts another LB in the 1st round, or who brings in utter spares like Roy Williams IInumskulls: What an excuse!

T-Ro is patiently trying to teach some of you numskulls about the passing game. But some prefer the damp moldy shadows of your own ignorance.

 

[rcaldw]

Some of you people lack the intellectual sophistication to distinguish causality from excuse.

Where did I ever defend Romo for the Jets or the Lions game?

Although even in the Jets game last year...the pick that everybody gets so upset about... where Tony throws the ball to Dez, assuming Dez has the physical tools to win a one-on-one with Revis.

Dez, running on a bad leg didn't even come back to the ball, let alone fight for it.

Romo probably should have thrown that one way...but you can't look at it in such black and white...because Tony was expecting Dez to do his job. Dez didn't.

Once again quarterbacks can't wait for receivers to be open. They have to anticipate. When a receiver doesn't do his job...then the pass looks utterly foolish.

Causality people. Try to understand it. Some of you just want to drink yourself crazy and watch football. And rage with abandon at the TV when something unhappy happens. That's fine, I guess, if you want to be an average (numskull) fan.

Honestly..... You are sophisticated intellectually and those who take some issue with you are not? The only difference between "causality" and excuse making in this case is semantics. Why do I say that? Because you are trying to prepare us for a cause that hasn't even been demonstrated yet. In addition, you prepared us mentally for NOT ONE of these situations but THREE.

Truthfully now... what NFL quarterback doesn't have to deal with the rush? Which one has an eternity to pick his targets?

I wonder if you are dissecting the "cause" for Eli's picks?

I've said it forever and I'll say it again.... there were PLENTY of times that Aikman had very little time (I'm talking during his prime) to make his decisions. (His concussion history will demonstrate this)

Football is a bottom line business. That is one thing I have appreciated about Garrett and others.... they are quick to say "everyone in the NFL deals with this."

It is Romo's job to overcome these "causes". That is HIS JOB. That is what makes the difference between the guys who throw the backbreaking picks and the ones who don't.

I think Tony is great, I really do. I also think that HE would refuse the line of reasoning that you are offering up here. He seems to be a stand up guy to me.

 

[T-RO]

The only difference between "causality" and excuse making in this case is semantics.

Insert coin and try again. You are WRONG.

Causality is: The earth orbits around the sun...so the SUN will appear to rise...every single day. Causality is inexorable. Unalterable. An excuse is, "I was late to work this morning because I had to eat breakfast and I spilled lucky charms on my lap."

An NFL quarterback WILL BE LESS EFFECTIVE if he has only 2.5 seconds to throw compared to 4.

THIS IS LAW
THIS IS UNALTERABLE
THIS IS INEXORABLE

In Tony's greatness he can work magic to make up some of the difference. But even his powers are limited.

Truthfully now... what NFL quarterback doesn't have to deal with the rush? Which one has an eternity to pick his targets?

What is this..a trip to wizard of oz...with straw men? Who said anything about eternity to throw?! I said from the very beginning 3 CLEAN seconds in the pocket. Most quarterbacks get that. Brees gets 4-5. Tony often gets 2 and before it's collapsing in on him.

I've said it forever and I'll say it again.... there were PLENTY of times that Aikman had very little time (I'm talking during his prime) to make his decisions. (His concussion history will demonstrate this)

You can't be serious. Aikman had a poor line his first year or so. Then it was all-world. More pro-bowlers than you can count: Step, Newton, Tui, Williams, Allen, etc. What a complete joke for to compare the two. I was a student at UCLA when Troy was there. I know the player and the man. Aikman would be sacked 6-10 times a game behind this current line and would have had a very forgettable career. Aikman was as accurate as they come, but with no line, no Emmitt, no Irvin...gimmie a break.

I think Tony is great, I really do. I also think that HE would refuse the line of reasoning that you are offering up here. He seems to be a stand up guy to me.

Tony would never throw his teammates under the bus. He would never throw Jerry under the bus. As a fan I can talk about the realities he faces.

 

[maxdallasfan]

We all know Romo is a good QB. Every HC in this league would want him. The media loves to blast Romo bc it gets them in the headlines. So simple, it's stupid.

So alas my Cowboys friends! For we do not need to constantly defend our leader in battle. For we know he has the weapons and the smarts to lead us to the promised land. The question is: are his warriors that follow good enough to get him there?

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Rick I like your posts but man you lose so much credibility with this stance because so many things you throw out are wrong. Here's one...

I highly doubt that. More like an opinion. Like the opinions of players who have continually voted Romo as the most overrated player in the NFL. Do I agree? No. But if they have strong evidence and sound reasoning they are not really wrong or right. It's just a difference in opinion.

According to CouchScout Romo's pre snap reads are second only to Peyton Manning in league circles.

I don't buy it.

I think it's his opinion. My opinion is that I would take the pre-snap reads of guys like Brees, Brady, and Eli over Romo. Not only in accuracy, but in the time they take to make them.

Does he make mistakes in pre-snap reads? YES, everybody does, but to throw that out there and say you're tired of his wrong reads tells everyone there's no way around the fact that Tony sticks in your craw and you are in a constant battle with your dislike for him and your love of the team.

Here's a fact for you.

According to FootballOutsiders, sacks allowed are typically correlated to who the QB is. And typically good pocket passing QB's don't get sacked that often. Running efficiency tends to be a correlation of O-Line play according to FO.com.

So everybody complains about the O-Line for a statistic that tends to be dictated more by the QB.

Romo doesn't stick in my craw, I'm just tired of hearing excuses for the guy. I'm tired of hearing excuses for guys like Ware as well, who has the most offsides penalties in the NFL since 2007. Or the fact that the learning curve for offensive players tends to be painfully slow.

If there's anything that sticks in anybody's craw around here it's when anybody doesn't hold Romo as an 'elite' QB or has the gall to point out that many times the O-Line gets blamed for his blunders.








YR

 

[DFWJC]

Have to say I'm not a fan of The premis and timing of the thread.

But for sure there are plenty of people with a huge double standard concerning the fairly rare Romo turnover.

ALL QBs that have ever played have the occasional brainfart. Bree's, Manning, Brady, Aikman....all of them. Just last year Bree's had several...as did Eli and Brady.

The other thing that is comical is how games very early last year all of a sudden were more critical than other games. It's odd now the 10 TDs and 1 int down the stretch when it really is huge aren't even mentioned.

You have people ignore the facts...almost claiming one of the best QBs in the league at reading defenses is actually bad at it. Sad...disgraceful actually.

Huge double standard and very selective memories by somewhere.

Face it, the first Giants game proved that if Romo is not 100% perfect, there will be some dilweed who will blame the loss on him.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

The reality of the situation is the NFL only sport league in the world in which a team with a negative point differential that loses 25% of it's regular season contests CONSECUTIVELY can be considered the "best" in their sport. Championships are mostly decided in the NFL on pure, dumb luck and Randomness.

No, they are not.

If they were, you would not have mentioned that the Giants were negative in point differential.

Why?

Because if that didn't make a difference then it would be a baseless point.

In general, there are various different metrics that can produce sound odds on a team's chances to win the Super Bowl. For instance, my metrics in 2011 showed that the Packers were the 3rd most likely team to win the Super Bowl going into the playoffs that year. There are even better methods of determining odds than mine.

The Giants defied those odds, but more often than not they would not have defied those odds. Of course, that's why they call them 'odds.'

And why did they defy those odds?

I tend to think that once again, Eli got hot and showed that when he's on, he can play extremely well against anybody at any time. Then again, he can go cold at any time.

In the end, I would take the guy that got extremely hot to propel his team to Lombardi trophies twice.

Eli came a Miles Austin bad route away from being out of the Playoff Contention in Week 14.

That was an inaccurate throw by Romo. It wasn't an easy throw by any means, even on the NFL level. But again, excuse making to pass the blame from Romo and give Eli any credit.

You'll have to forgive me for scoffing at Eli's supposed innate ability to "turn it on when it counts", considering December is his worst month split over his career with a barely mediocre 74.6 QBR.

I'd scoff at your assumption that people are saying that Eli can always 'turn it on when it counts.' Again, a strawman argument. What has been said is that he's turned it one twice when it counted and it got his team 2 Super Bowl victories.




YR

I'll let the rest of your guys continue your Eli Mythology, and I'll sit back and laugh as people sit dumbfounded and slackjawed desperately searching for narratives as to why his backfoot heaves aren't working this December when he regresses back to the norm.[/QUOTE]

 

[Mr_Bill]

I highly doubt that. More like an opinion. Like the opinions of players who have continually voted Romo as the most overrated player in the NFL. Do I agree? No. But if they have strong evidence and sound reasoning they are not really wrong or right. It's just a difference in opinion.



I don't buy it.

I think it's his opinion. My opinion is that I would take the pre-snap reads of guys like Brees, Brady, and Eli over Romo. Not only in accuracy, but in the time they take to make them.




Here's a fact for you.

According to FootballOutsiders, sacks allowed are typically correlated to who the QB is. And typically good pocket passing QB's don't get sacked that often. Running efficiency tends to be a correlation of O-Line play according to FO.com.

So everybody complains about the O-Line for a statistic that tends to be dictated more by the QB.

Romo doesn't stick in my craw, I'm just tired of hearing excuses for the guy. I'm tired of hearing excuses for guys like Ware as well, who has the most offsides penalties in the NFL since 2007. Or the fact that the learning curve for offensive players tends to be painfully slow.

If there's anything that sticks in anybody's craw around here it's when anybody doesn't hold Romo as an 'elite' QB or has the gall to point out that many times the O-Line gets blamed for his blunders.








YR

I follow your posts religiously, because I value your opinions. But, I am with Dandy Don on this one. Your dislike of Romo is legendary and has gone on for years. When it comes to pre-snap reads, I am going with Couchscout here, who not only has his own opinion, but has polled NFL sources about this very subject. You have a right to your own opinion. I just don't see it at all.

As for blaming Romo for players jumping offsides, how do you explain that Peyton Manning's offensive lines didn't have that problem? Manning spends forever at the line, scanning defenses, moving players, changing calls. His linemen seem to be able to handle it.

Romo has faults. You do not need to invent more.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

You have people ignore the facts...almost claiming one of the best QBs in the league at reading defenses is actually bad at it. Sad...disgraceful actually.

It's even sadder when people ignore what it typed on a computer.

I never said that he's bad at reading defenses.

I've said that he needs to read defenses quicker and he's not doing the O-Line any favors by constantly having to wait until the last nanosecond to snap the ball every time. After a while, the defense knows to not jump and just let Romo keep faking snap counts because he's not snapping the ball until there is 1 second or less on the play clock.

We have so many fans that scream a lack of accountability, yet they'll go to great lengths to make excuses for the guy.







YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

As for blaming Romo for players jumping offsides, how do you explain that Peyton Manning's offensive lines didn't have that problem? Manning spends forever at the line, scanning defenses, moving players, changing calls. His linemen seem to be able to handle it

Manning doesn't snap every snap at the very last second. He uses no huddle and is able to switch up when they snap the ball. He'll snap it at the last second, then snap it with 15 seconds, then 5 seconds, then 7 seconds, then to the very last moment. The defense can't get a jump on the ball because they have no idea when he's going to snap it. The O-Line doesn't have to worry about getting beat on the snap as much because they know that the defense is off guard.

I respect coachscout, but I disagree that Romo is better at pre-snap reads than Brady. And if he's supposedly 'polled' people, I want to see it.






YR

 

[Mr_Bill]

Manning doesn't snap every snap at the very last second. He uses no huddle and is able to switch up when they snap the ball. He'll snap it at the last second, then snap it with 15 seconds, then 5 seconds, then 7 seconds, then to the very last moment. The defense can't get a jump on the ball because they have no idea when he's going to snap it. The O-Line doesn't have to worry about getting beat on the snap as much because they know that the defense is off guard.

I respect coachscout, but I disagree that Romo is better at pre-snap reads than Brady. And if he's supposedly 'polled' people, I want to see it.






YR

My error. That was couchscout's opinion about the pre-snap reads. I confused that with his comment about Romo being an elite QB, where he had talked to '50' people around the league.

So, if Brady is better than Romo, does that make Romo number 3? It sure seems like carping on a problem that just doesn't exist,

Your post sounds like you believe that Manning often alters his snap count, but Romo never does. I doubt that you actually believe that. As for the frequency of alterations, only a detailed review of several games could possibly show any difference between the two. Have you done that?

 

[T-RO]

A lot of posters will be victims of their own premature emasculation tomorrow night, failing to man up and think up.

Perhaps there are a few prepared to go from boys2men.

I challenge the honest observer to compare two things tomorrow night
1. How much time each quarterback has before the pocket is threatened?
2. How reliably and how well does the respective receiving corps perform?

If Eli played for Dallas he'd be hard-pressed to put up league-average numbers. He'd be throwing half his passes from a supine position on the turf.

 

[Hoofbite]

A lot of posters will be victims of their own premature emasculation tomorrow night, failing to man up and think up.

Perhaps there are a few prepared to go from boys2men.

I challenge the honest observer to compare two things tomorrow night
1. How much time each quarterback has before the pocket is threatened?
2. How reliably and how well does the respective receiving corps perform?

If Eli played for Dallas he'd be hard-pressed to put up league-average numbers. He'd be throwing half his passes from a supine position on the turf.

So you're saying that tomorrow we should expect a follow up thread about how you were right in claiming the losing QB will have been under more pressure than the winning QB?

 

[T-RO]

So you're saying that tomorrow we should expect a follow up thread about how you were right in claiming the losing QB will have been under more pressure than the winning QB?

Possibly. It's also possible that Romo will create time in the pocket--or outside it-- with his magic, and lead the team to victory.

 

[rcaldw]

Insert coin and try again. You are WRONG.

Causality is: The earth orbits around the sun...so the SUN will appear to rise...every single day. Causality is inexorable. Unalterable. An excuse is, "I was late to work this morning because I had to eat breakfast and I spilled lucky charms on my lap."

An NFL quarterback WILL BE LESS EFFECTIVE if he has only 2.5 seconds to throw compared to 4.

THIS IS LAW
THIS IS UNALTERABLE
THIS IS INEXORABLE

In Tony's greatness he can work magic to make up some of the difference. But even his powers are limited.

Nope, I'm right.... Has the game been played yet? No. What 2.5 to 4 seconds are you talking about? The one in your imagination? Do you time all of the pocket time that opposing QB's have when they make a good play? Do you count the times Tony has 3 seconds and MISSES a throw? The only PREMATURE thing in this thread is your excuse making.

What is this..a trip to wizard of oz...with straw men? Who said anything about eternity to throw?! I said from the very beginning 3 CLEAN seconds in the pocket. Most quarterbacks get that. Brees gets 4-5. Tony often gets 2 and before it's collapsing in on him.


You can't be serious. Aikman had a poor line his first year or so. Then it was all-world. More pro-bowlers than you can count: Step, Newton, Tui, Williams, Allen, etc. What a complete joke for to compare the two. I was a student at UCLA when Troy was there. I know the player and the man. Aikman would be sacked 6-10 times a game behind this current line and would have had a very forgettable career. Aikman was as accurate as they come, but with no line, no Emmitt, no Irvin...gimmie a break.

How old are you? Did you watch every game of Aikman's career? Do you have every one of his games on tape? Because I do. I can point you to PLENTY of times that he made great throws when people busting him the mouth. Some of them in BIG playoff wins. We had a good offensive line in the 90's, but it was a better run blocking line than pass protecting line, and that is the truth. By the way, how many of those 90's offensive line guys are in the hall of fame? Nate? No. Step? No (how did Step do outside of Dallas?), Williams? No. Gesek? No. The only guy is Larry Allen and he arrived later than the rest. Very, very good line, no argument from me, but those guys were made by Aikman, Smith and Irvin too.

Tony would never throw his teammates under the bus. He would never throw Jerry under the bus. As a fan I can talk about the realities he faces.

Yea boy, I bet he's glad he has you. The only thing funnier than premature excuses is immature self aggrandizement. You win the award for both. Hit "view full quote" above and I respond point by point.

 

[T-RO]

rcaldw, "What 2.5 to 4 seconds are you talking about?"

The fact that you are asking this question 7 pages into this thread is telling.

CHECK OUT THE FACTS....It's numerically compiled. Computer verified:
http://analyticfootball.blogspot.com/2010/09/time-in-pocket-and-effects-on-qb.html

 

[T-RO]

Check out the data:

In our 2007 data, when Peyton Manning is under pressure, his adjusted completion percentage drops from 86% to 46% and when Tom Brady is under pressure, his adjusted completion percentage drops from 71% to 39%.

http://analyticfootball.blogspot.com/2010/09/time-in-pocket-and-effects-on-qb.html