Troy Smith

[ABQCOWBOY]

undrafted I agree but there are starting QB's in the NFL who were day 2 picks Brady himself was a 6th rd pick. What I'm saying is Smith will be in camp with some team and what he shows them will determine his future not where he was picked. I do agree any team that invest in a 1st rd QB they pretty much need to get him out there and live or die with him. Smith likely will get selected around the 4th rd and will get the chance to sit and learn without the pressure that QB's taken in the 1st rd will face.

I must say, I don't really agree with this. QBs taken in the 1st or 2nd have a much better chance of making it in the NFL IMO. They have time on there side. Guys taken later don't typically. It's much easier to go out and bring in guys who have been in other teams camps and try to continue to build on them rather then drafting guys and bringing them in to develop over a period of 3 to 4 years. I mean, your example of Brady is the exception rather then the rule IMO. Could it happen? Sure, it could happen but is this typical in the NFL? I don't think so. Time will tell with Smith. If he lands in the right situation, it could work out for him. Given the time to develope, he could become a QB who overcomes the size thing. Question is, will he be given that time? There are no assurances of that IMO. If he shows up in a camp ready to go and working well, then he might just get that chance. If he shows up in a camp like he did at his Pro Day or Combine, I don't know that a team might be willing to invest long term in that development.

 

[Doomsday101]

I bet he goes on Sunday as well. What do you think about Leak? He is also like just under 6'. Just curious because he is a Charlotte home town kid. He may not go until Sunday as well.

I think Leak will go 6th or 7th rd of the draft

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I dont necessarily agree with this. They ran the 5 wide offense when Brees was in school. Even Kyle Orton looked like a superstar in that offense.

No, Brees was one of the most NFL ready QBs coming out in a long while. Smith, IMO, is nowhere near that same level. Ohio State doesn't really run a Pro Style offense. The development cycle, IMO, is much greater for Smith but that's just my opinion.

 

[Doomsday101]

I must say, I don't really agree with this. QBs taken in the 1st or 2nd have a much better chance of making it in the NFL IMO. They have time on there side. Guys taken later don't typically. It's much easier to go out and bring in guys who have been in other teams camps and try to continue to build on them rather then drafting guys and bringing them in to develop over a period of 3 to 4 years. I mean, your example of Brady is the exception rather then the rule IMO. Could it happen? Sure, it could happen but is this typical in the NFL? I don't think so. Time will tell with Smith. If he lands in the right situation, it could work out for him. Given the time to develope, he could become a QB who overcomes the size thing. Question is, will he be given that time? There are no assurances of that IMO. If he shows up in a camp ready to go and working well, then he might just get that chance. If he shows up in a camp like he did at his Pro Day or Combine, I don't know that a team might be willing to invest long term in that development.

I'm saying a guy has to get his foot in the door what he does with the oppertunity is what will determine his future in the NFL. As for time I still think he will get 2 or 3 years before a team has to determine what they will do. In that time Smith with either show the coaching staff progress or not. I guess in the end all I'm saying is once the draft is over no one cares about which rd you were drafted in what you do once your on a team is what matters.

 

[Charles]

The thing I find most amusing about your post is that you don't really have any idea what it is I'm saying but you can't wait to get started running in the incorrect direction.

Nice job there Chuck.

Your post was pretty self explainatory, no more clarification needed unless you want to change your point. Infact it was in response to a post that outlined the absurdity of both Smith and Leak dropping in the draft.

You infered that Beck or Zabransky would be just as effective or better Quarterbacking on the Ohio State team. That is absurd, because whose to say they'd make the plays that Troy Smith would make to keep that offense going.

It's a flawed statement.

What didn't I understand? What point were you trying to make?

If I am wrong then I apologize in advance, but quite frankly you can't spin your post.

No one knows how these guys will fair. Drew Brees and many other successful QBS were knocked because of their height or size.

 

[alancdc]

I think Leak will go 6th or 7th rd of the draft

With 3 in the 7th and a couple 6ths, I h think, would you take him for Dallas and cut ties with Baker?

 

[Doomsday101]

With 3 in the 7th and a couple 6ths, I h think, would you take him for Dallas and cut ties with Baker?

If Dallas were to use a 6th or one of the 7th on him I would have no problem with that. I also like Jeff Rowe from Nevada late in the draft.

 

[Charles]

No, Brees was one of the most NFL ready QBs coming out in a long while. Smith, IMO, is nowhere near that same level. Ohio State doesn't really run a Pro Style offense. The development cycle, IMO, is much greater for Smith but that's just my opinion.

Another absurd statement.

There is nothing that Brees did at San Diego that can justify your opinion.

Infact, the fact that they draft a franchise QB prior to his break out season infers that as ready as he was coming out atleast the Chargers thought he wouldn't amount to much more.

Even with the luxury of having the best football player in his back field it still took Brees 4 seasons to become an elite QB, yet you'd have us believe the same scenario can't be extend to Troy Smith even though he was a much more successful College QB

This doesn't make sense..............

 

[flashback]

The concerns I have about Smith is that in the games I watched, he was pretty accurate on the short stuff, he got rid of the ball quickly enough, and generally did a pretty good job of moving the chains, with one obvious, huge, glaring, monstrous, extremely important, career changing exception. But even when he was killing teams, he wasn't killing them by going deep or hitting guys down the seam, or throwing the 15 or 20 yard outs. He was hitting Ginn and Gonzales on slants, quick hooks, etc.

I don't think his height is near as much of an issue as his ability to make all the throws. But, coincidentally, that's another thing he has in common with Brees. Denver used to kill Brees 2x a year by crowding the short routes and the middle of the field and forcing him to throw deep and outside. And he had a very hard time doing that. That's what Smith is going to have to overcome.

Now, none of us know whether or not Smith is going to be able to that. But I'll go on record saying I don't think too many teams in the NFL are going to spend a 1st day pick on a 6' 1" QBs upside.

 

[alancdc]

Another absurd statement.

There is nothing that Brees did at San Diego that can justify your opinion.

Infact, the fact that they draft a franchise QB prior to his break out season infers that as ready as he was coming out atleast the Chargers thought he wouldn't amount to much more.

Even with the luxury of having the best football player in his back field it still took Brees 4 seasons to become an elite QB, yet you'd have us believe the same scenario can't be extend to Troy Smith even though he was a much more successful College QB

This doesn't make sense..............

First, let me say I am NOT an Ohio St hater. I am an ACC fan. However, Brees was picked in the 2nd round so someone obviously saw something coming out of college, and I thought that was what he said as far as NFL ready. I doubt that Smith goes before the 6th so I would guess that scouts don't consider him as good a prospect as they did Brees coming out of college. I would guess that had Brees had the tallent at Purdue that Smith had at OSU he would have done pretty well also. Anyway, you can be a great college QB, but not a great NFL QB. It's doesn't diminish in any way, IMO, how ultra succesful he was at OSU.

 

[jay cee]

Another absurd statement.

There is nothing that Brees did at San Diego that can justify your opinion.

Infact, the fact that they draft a franchise QB prior to his break out season infers that as ready as he was coming out atleast the Chargers thought he wouldn't amount to much more.

Even with the luxury of having the best football player in his back field it still took Brees 4 seasons to become an elite QB, yet you'd have us believe the same scenario can't be extend to Troy Smith even though he was a much more successful College QB

This doesn't make sense..............

That's the 2nd time someone has said that Ohio State did not run a pro style offense. If not pro style, what exactly did they run?

And I thought Brees went to Purdue, don't they run some kind of Run & Shoot type offense?

Am I confusing them with Iowa? I sometimes mix up those two programs.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Your post was pretty self explainatory, no more clarification needed unless you want to change your point. Infact it was in response to a post that outlined the absurdity of both Smith and Leak dropping in the draft.

You infered that Beck or Zabransky would be just as effective or better Quarterbacking on the Ohio State team. That is absurd, because whose to say they'd make the plays that Troy Smith would make to keep that offense going.

It's a flawed statement.

What didn't I understand? What point were you trying to make?

If I am wrong then I apologize in advance, but quite frankly you can't spin your post.

No one knows how these guys will fair. Drew Brees and many other successful QBS were knocked because of their height or size.

Actually, I did not infere anything. I flat said it. You can not know if a Beck or a Zabransky would not have done just as well or better. This is what goes into the evaluation of where Smith should be taken. It's not a knock but simply a statement of fact. It goes to the multitudes of talent that are always present at Ohio St. How much of the success is Smith and how much is the talent he's playing with? It's all part of the evaluation process.

My point was really not about that, per say. It was about Smith and how much time he would get to develop, per say. For him, it's all about that if he's going to be a QB. However, because he is a good football player, he may have a better opportunity to make a team if he is playing another position. It may be that he gets more opportunity if he explores this possability. Simple as that really. I have nothing to spin. I'm simply pointing out that you are and were clueless as to what I was actually trying to say about this player.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'm saying a guy has to get his foot in the door what he does with the oppertunity is what will determine his future in the NFL. As for time I still think he will get 2 or 3 years before a team has to determine what they will do. In that time Smith with either show the coaching staff progress or not. I guess in the end all I'm saying is once the draft is over no one cares about which rd you were drafted in what you do once your on a team is what matters.

Oh, I totally agree with all of this. To me, your right on the money here. I honestly hope that Smith gets a good situation and that somebody does take time with him. He could turn into something for the right team. I don't know if he will ever develop into a Brees but I think the raw tools are there to become the same type of player, if........... if he gets the chance to develop. Your 100% correct. After the draft, it doesn't matter where you were taken. It's up to each player to make the most of the opportunity they have.

 

[Charles]

That's the 2nd time someone has said that Ohio State did not run a pro style offense. If not pro style, what exactly did they run?

And I thought Brees went to Purdue, don't they run some kind of Run & Shoot type offense?

Am I confusing them with Iowa? I sometimes mix up those two programs.

History has shown us it doesn't really matter. Good QBs will always rise to the top.

Yet, some posters like ABQCowboy will have us believe that Troy Smith can't translate his skills to the NFL because of blah blah blah.

I bet the Lions or Texans ownership would like David Garrad in the 2nd or 3rd RD instead of their respective picks 4 years ago.

 

[joseephuss]

History has shown us it doesn't really matter. Good QBs will always rise to the top.

Yet, some posters like ABQCowboy will have us believe that Troy Smith can't translate his skills to the NFL because of blah blah blah.

I bet the Lions or Texans ownership would like David Garrad in the 2nd or 3rd RD instead of their respective picks 4 years ago.

Garrard is a little taller at 6'-2" and is big at almost 240 lbs. If Troy Smith had those measureables, more teams would be interested in taking him as a project. Some teams are probably still interested in doing just that.

 

[Charles]

Actually, I did not infere anything. I flat said it. You can not know if a Beck or a Zabransky would not have done just as well or better. This is what goes into the evaluation of where Smith should be taken.

And who are you to say what should go into Troy Smith's
evaluation

Beck and Zabronsky performances hypothetical or real will have no bearing on where Troy Smith should be taken.

Troy Smiths body of work will speak for it's self. Same goes for Beck and Zabronsky. Their body of work will determine where they fall.

It's not a knock but simply a statement of fact. It goes to the multitudes of talent that are always present at Ohio St. How much of the success is Smith and how much is the talent he's playing with? It's all part of the evaluation process.

It is not a fact, because whose to say that Beck or Zabronsky were good enough or talented enough to lead the very talent Buckeyes team.

Whose to say the'd have what it takes to elevate their game to the level of Ginn or Gonzales?

The REAL FACTS are Troy Smith was good enough to find his talented teammates and he shouldn't be penalized because of some hypothetical theory that Beck or Zabronsky could possibly duplicate his abilities and success.

Do you finally see the absurdity of your statement?

Not to mention that QBs of similar measuragble with much less success have gone on to have very good careers in the NFL, without he benefit of playing a Pro Style offense on the collegiate level.

My point was really not about that, per say. It was about Smith and how much time he would get to develop, per say. For him, it's all about that if he's going to be a QB. However, because he is a good football player, he may have a better opportunity to make a team if he is playing another position. It may be that he gets more opportunity if he explores this possability. Simple as that really. I have nothing to spin. I'm simply pointing out that you are and were clueless as to what I was actually trying to say about this player.

So when you post that Beck or Zabronsky would fair just as well or better than Troy Smith Quaterbacking the Buckeyes, I am supposed to know that what you are really saying is that he'll (Troy) take longer to develop as a QB on the next level?????? Especially when the post wa sin reply to another poster pointing out the absurdity of Chris Leak falling in the draft... oooooooookay!!!! That must be some code. I agree I am clueless. I guess.

Anyway, even after clarification your point is still moot. You have no way of really knowing the development curve of any QB going into the NFL.

I have one FACT that you can't dispute......HISTORY!!!

 

[Tex]

Flutie sure had a few productive years and he was closer to 5' 10 wasn't he? I am not saying he was all pro or anything but....

Tex

 

[DallasEast]

Don't be so sure. We shall see.

Dream on, bub.

 

[Cochese]

No, Brees was one of the most NFL ready QBs coming out in a long while. Smith, IMO, is nowhere near that same level. Ohio State doesn't really run a Pro Style offense. The development cycle, IMO, is much greater for Smith but that's just my opinion.

And Purdue DID run a pro style offense?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Another absurd statement.

There is nothing that Brees did at San Diego that can justify your opinion.

Infact, the fact that they draft a franchise QB prior to his break out season infers that as ready as he was coming out atleast the Chargers thought he wouldn't amount to much more.

Even with the luxury of having the best football player in his back field it still took Brees 4 seasons to become an elite QB, yet you'd have us believe the same scenario can't be extend to Troy Smith even though he was a much more successful College QB

This doesn't make sense..............

Well, I have little interest in arguing with you. Your evaluation of Smith in comparison to Brees is somewhat inflated IMO.

Brees was, IMO, the most ready QB coming out of college the year he came out and really, one of the most ready players coming out at QB period. In 2001, Brees was the second QB taken. He was the 32 player taken over all. In any other year, that would have been a 1st rd pick but in 2001, it was the 1st pick of the 2nd rd. Brees actually held a 1st round grade on most boards but because of his size and questions about his arm strength, he slipped to the second round. That year was a particularly good year, talent wise, for the Draft. Vick was the first and only QB taken in the 1st rd. At this point, I think you'd have to say that Brees has proven to be a better QB then has Vick.

BTW, LT was also taken in that draft and was a rookie the year Brees joined the Chargers.

What did the Chargers think of Brees? Lets see, the thought enough of him to start him in his second season. A season in which he Threw for over 3200 yards, posted a 60.8 completion percentage and threw 17 TDs against 16 INTs, all in his first year starting. Now, you might say that San Diego didn't have confidence in him and perhaps that might be true but to me, that's a problem with San Diego's front office and coaching staff at the time. That kind of production is more then respectable, IMO, for a young QB in his first starting season. I wonder, do you see Smith starting 16 games in the NFL in his second year? Do you see Smith being evaluated as the 2nd best QB in the draft this year? Does he hold a 1st rd grade as did Brees in 2001? Do you think he will be a 2nd rd pick this year?

In short, why are we having this discussion?

My guess is because you are not looking at this thing objectively but if you would rather say that it is I who doesn't know my arse from a hole in the ground, then OK. I can live with that.