VaqueroTD
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Just the random nature of it. People in the apartment left alive. Knife stabbing, not a hit. Screams serial killer to me. I will be looking for my FBI invite tomorrow.
True Crime thread
- Thread starter MichaelWinicki
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Just the random nature of it. People in the apartment left alive. Knife stabbing, not a hit. Screams serial killer to me. I will be looking for my FBI invite tomorrow.
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Highly suggest "Manifesto of a Serial Killer".
3 part series. I watched it on Oxygen last night.
Leonard Lake and Charles Ng left a trail of dead bodies in northern California in the mid 1980's.
A weird case, even in the world of serial killers. A pair of murderers that are not nearly as well knows as many of the other serial killers of that era.
There are several things that make their case unique such as the existence of video tapes that explain why they did what they did and show some of the crimes.
What made it especially good for me was the modern day interviews with several of the family members affected along with some of those from law enforcement that were involved.
In addition they visit the places where these crimes took place... decades later.
3 part series. I watched it on Oxygen last night.
Leonard Lake and Charles Ng left a trail of dead bodies in northern California in the mid 1980's.
A weird case, even in the world of serial killers. A pair of murderers that are not nearly as well knows as many of the other serial killers of that era.
There are several things that make their case unique such as the existence of video tapes that explain why they did what they did and show some of the crimes.
What made it especially good for me was the modern day interviews with several of the family members affected along with some of those from law enforcement that were involved.
In addition they visit the places where these crimes took place... decades later.
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One other point about "Manifesto"... It's still an active campaign in that the remains of several victims were buried together as part of a memorial in the late 1990's.
Well the authorities recently accessed those remains in order to do DNA analysis–As of last month the results were not yet in.
Well the authorities recently accessed those remains in order to do DNA analysis–As of last month the results were not yet in.
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Just finished reading "Shadow Man" by Ron Franscell.
Great true crime book! Highly recommended!
There are two strings that weave their way through the book and eventually unite...
One part of the book is the story of several murders in the state of Montana starting in the late 60's.
The other part of the book is the story of how FBI profiling came into being in the early 70's.
One of the most interesting parts of the story occurs when a relative of a victim is used (with their permission of course) to help nail down the suspected perpetrator.
Great true crime book! Highly recommended!
There are two strings that weave their way through the book and eventually unite...
One part of the book is the story of several murders in the state of Montana starting in the late 60's.
The other part of the book is the story of how FBI profiling came into being in the early 70's.
One of the most interesting parts of the story occurs when a relative of a victim is used (with their permission of course) to help nail down the suspected perpetrator.
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The Idaho Murders...
Listened to a podcast about the case that featured a defense attorney commenting on the case.
The guy brought up some interesting points...
The information released so far presents a very strong case for the prosecution. He feels the defense team is going to have its work cut out for it.
He made a statement off the cuff about Americans quite often joking about "Government putting a chip into our bodies in order to track us" and how that time is here through the use of modern technology. 3 different technologies were used to identify a suspect: DNA, cell phone and video.
And even though the suspect turned off his phone for several hours before and after the murders took place, useful information was still garnered through a search of his cell phone use a couple weeks before and after the date of the crime.
One very interesting point, well two... His cell phone showed that he had been near the site of the future crime many times prior to the crime actually taking place. And then later the same day of the murders, his cell phone was detected again, near the crime scene.
The suspect's car had a very distinct "feature" and that was it was registered in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania–which only requires a rear license plate, meaning there was no license plate on the front which stuck out like a sore thumb.
A final point, one of the surviving roommates came out of her room immediately after the 4th murder had take place and the alledged suspect walked down the hall right past the surviving roommate. He had a mask on and she mentioned he had "bushy eyebrows". But why did he not kill her also?
Listened to a podcast about the case that featured a defense attorney commenting on the case.
The guy brought up some interesting points...
The information released so far presents a very strong case for the prosecution. He feels the defense team is going to have its work cut out for it.
He made a statement off the cuff about Americans quite often joking about "Government putting a chip into our bodies in order to track us" and how that time is here through the use of modern technology. 3 different technologies were used to identify a suspect: DNA, cell phone and video.
And even though the suspect turned off his phone for several hours before and after the murders took place, useful information was still garnered through a search of his cell phone use a couple weeks before and after the date of the crime.
One very interesting point, well two... His cell phone showed that he had been near the site of the future crime many times prior to the crime actually taking place. And then later the same day of the murders, his cell phone was detected again, near the crime scene.
The suspect's car had a very distinct "feature" and that was it was registered in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania–which only requires a rear license plate, meaning there was no license plate on the front which stuck out like a sore thumb.
A final point, one of the surviving roommates came out of her room immediately after the 4th murder had take place and the alledged suspect walked down the hall right past the surviving roommate. He had a mask on and she mentioned he had "bushy eyebrows". But why did he not kill her also?
SlammedZero
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I've been following this one very closely. It's been an interesting one, and clues are starting to unravel, but I will be curious if we ever get a true motive. Have seen plenty of online theories, but nothing from the killer/police.
The surviving roommate story is indeed an odd one. So many questions with her. Why did he spare her? Did he not notice her? Why didn't she call the police or check on her roommates? Just a very odd scenario overall. I get it was a party house, but you would still think a man in a mask roaming your house at 4am would raise some red flags.
triplets_93
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James S. Ellenson, the lawyer for the family of the 6 year old has released a statement.
Lawyer: 6-year-old who shot teacher has ‘acute disability’
https://apnews.com/article/education-virginia-newport-news-children-33ed30539f279405f696ad10d4ff46a1
Apparently the 6 year old has intellectual and behavioral disabilities. I don't know if his special education was for him alone, or if the entire class he was in was a "special education" class. But the child was in a very rare “individualized education program” or IEP, which is provided to students with disabilities under federal law.
Regarding the disability, the family said the boy “was under a care plan at the school that included his mother or father attending school with him and accompanying him to class every day.”
But for whatever reasons, there was no parent with the child the day of the shooting. And... get this...
The superintendent of Newport News schools revealed last week that Richneck administrators had learned the child may have had a weapon before the shooting. But a search did not find the handgun, despite staff looking through his bag.
Ellenson told The Associated Press by phone Thursday evening that his understanding is that the gun was in the mother’s closet on a top shelf that was well over six feet high. The weapon also had a trigger lock that requires a key, similar to a bike lock.
I think is room here for many lawsuits from the parents of students that witnessed this shooting, against the school district.
Lawyer: 6-year-old who shot teacher has ‘acute disability’
https://apnews.com/article/education-virginia-newport-news-children-33ed30539f279405f696ad10d4ff46a1
Apparently the 6 year old has intellectual and behavioral disabilities. I don't know if his special education was for him alone, or if the entire class he was in was a "special education" class. But the child was in a very rare “individualized education program” or IEP, which is provided to students with disabilities under federal law.
Regarding the disability, the family said the boy “was under a care plan at the school that included his mother or father attending school with him and accompanying him to class every day.”
But for whatever reasons, there was no parent with the child the day of the shooting. And... get this...
The superintendent of Newport News schools revealed last week that Richneck administrators had learned the child may have had a weapon before the shooting. But a search did not find the handgun, despite staff looking through his bag.
Ellenson told The Associated Press by phone Thursday evening that his understanding is that the gun was in the mother’s closet on a top shelf that was well over six feet high. The weapon also had a trigger lock that requires a key, similar to a bike lock.
I think is room here for many lawsuits from the parents of students that witnessed this shooting, against the school district.
RonWashington
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Today it was reported in the Idaho case the arrested ate at the restaurant two of the girls worked at twice and it was reported several days ago he had greeted one of them in social media but had received no response .
Add this to his phone pinging in neighborhood of the house on half dozen occasions months before the crime he seemingly had no trouble finding out where they lived . On so many levels this is a horrible scenario . Idaho has Capital punishment , hope the prosecutors don’t bargain this away for a quick conviction.
Add this to his phone pinging in neighborhood of the house on half dozen occasions months before the crime he seemingly had no trouble finding out where they lived . On so many levels this is a horrible scenario . Idaho has Capital punishment , hope the prosecutors don’t bargain this away for a quick conviction.
Fritsch_the_cat
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Depends on what type of mask it was because in these days of Covid it is common to see people wearing masks.
I'm guessing he just didn't see her, she may have just had the door cracked enough to peek out it, plus it was dark. I think she just didn't know what was going on and I doubt a murder was not what she thought. The police had been there days before this for a noise complaint, and had been there several times actually for noise, and told one of the girls if they came out again for noise it would be a ticket and $300 fine. She probably knew about that and didn't want to call police because of it. But it does seem like she would have tried to call her roommates to see if they were ok.
Fritsch_the_cat
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And they were on this guy just a few days after the murders happened.
triplets_93
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We're learning more about what exactly happened at Richneck Elementary School in Newport News, Va. on January 6, 2023. That's the day a 6-year-old boy shot his teacher, 25-year-old Abby Zwerner. We've learned Zwerner and her attorney, Diane Toscano, sent a notice to Newport News Public Schools of intent to file a lawsuit. Sarah Hammond takes us through the timeline for that day, laid out by Zwerner and Toscano.
LonnieElam
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I haven't read through 26 pages of this thread, so I apologize if this has been mentioned already. My favorite Youtube channel is called Jim Can't Swim. The whole channel is interrogations of suspects (mostly murder), and the narrator breaks down all the nuances that the detectives look for like body language. It also really breaks down their approach, and what type of tactics they use. It's very interesting. I'm really fascinated by the Chris Watts case, and he breaks it down on his channel. It's really good.
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Just finished the book, "And The Dead Shall Rise–The Murder of Mary Phagan and the Lynching of Leo Frank".
Amazing book... And amazingly long!
For those not familiar with the story, on Saturday, April 26th, 1913, Mary Phagan, who was only 13 years-old needed to go to the National Pencil Factory to pick up her pay of $1.20. After doing that she was suppose to attend the parade in downtown Atlanta, GA, celebrating Confederate Memorial Day.
Mary never made it to the parade.
Early in the morning on the 27th, the night watchman found Mary's body in the basement of the building.
The police were called and took the elevator to the basement... When they "landed" an awful smell spread throughout the basement. When the elevator hit the basement floor it smashed a pile of human excrement. The police never took a sample.
With Mary's body were a couple of hand written notes that appeared to throw blame on one of the laborers of the business. Mary's purse was missing as was her pay.
In the great tradition of mishandled famous murder crime scenes like Jon Benet and Martha Moxley, the basement crime scene was quickly compromised by the influx of the curious.
Early in the investigation police began to focus on Leo Frank, who was Superintendent for the concern. It made sense that he would be questioned in that he would have been one of the last, if not the last person to see young Mary alive, because it was he who handed her the pay she earned.
Jim Conley, another worker for the firm was also questioned. Jim began to tell a story... Actually 4 stories. Over the course of the investigation, Jim Conley would give the police 4 different affidavits about what occurred on Saturday April 26th. In his "final" affidavit, he admitted that he was an accomplice to the murder. He stated that Leo Frank killed her after she rejected his sexual advances. And then Frank "paid off" Conley to help move the body to the basement via the elevator.
During the 26th, Conley admitted drinking alcohol and participating in a game of craps. Speaking of crap, Conley admitted being responsible for the excrement the elevator later mashed, when the police went to the basement to initially investigate the crime. In one of his stories Conley admitted leaving the pile in the elevator shaft on the morning of the 26th.
Based on Conley's 4th affidavit, the police arrested Leo Frank.
The trail was a circus and an early nominee for "Trial of the Century", attracting attention all over the country. Jim Conley was the "star" witness for the prosecution.
Frank was found guilty and sentenced to death by hanging.
From that point on the defense team made appeal after appeal.
During this time, there was the "battle of the newspapers" with northern newspapers exclaiming that Frank was denied a fair trial and Conley was not a credible witness.
On the other side newspapers in the south objected to the interference by outsiders.
Jim Conley was tried separately as an accomplice and was found guilty. He was sentenced to a year in prison (he was released after 10 months).
Failing in appeal after appeal, Frank's defense team eventually appealed Frank's death sentence to the then governor of Georgia, John Slaton, who would soon be leaving office.
Reading the book, one come away impressed with John Slaton. He took the job of evaluating the Frank case seriously. And while pondering his situation, he knew that if he commuted Frank's death sentence he would become the most unpopular man in Georgia.
In another interesting aspect of the case, the attorney who defended Jim Conley during his trial was asked by his friend, who happened to be a private investigator that worked for the defense team during Frank's appeal process, was asked to look into the Frank case. That attorney, William Smith, spent a great deal of time studying the case, especially the two notes left by the body.
Smith concluded, based on several things, that Jim Conley wrote the notes.
What eventually caused Slaton to stop the execution of Leo Frank (Frank was then left to endure a life sentence) was the "**** in the Shaft". If Conley's last affidavit story was exactly as he said it did, then the excrement would have been mashed when he brought the body of Mary Phagan down in the elevator after Leo Frank murdered her and not when the police came down in the elevator to investigate the crime.
Frank was transferred from death row to a labor camp outside of Atlanta.
The citizens of Georgia were furious at the stopping of the execution.
A group of several influential Georgian's got together and planned on kidnapping and lynching Leo Frank.
On August 16th, 1915, this is exactly what happened.
And as during the trial and the appeals process, northern papers were outraged over lynching and southern papers (generally speaking) said, "Mind your own business."
In the early 1980's, on his death bed, one witness came forward and claimed that he, also a young teenager like Mary Phagan, witnessed Jim Conley carry her body down the stairs to the basement and did not use the elevator as he stated in his final affidavit. He stated that he did not come forward at the time because Conley threatened he and his family. So he kept quiet. And while this did not prove Leo Frank wasn't involved, it did prove Conley's story, even his last one, was at least partially a fabrication.
Interestingly, both Mary Phagan and Jon Benet are buried in Marietta, GA.
Images of the Frank lynching can be found online... And are unsettling even today.
Amazing book... And amazingly long!
For those not familiar with the story, on Saturday, April 26th, 1913, Mary Phagan, who was only 13 years-old needed to go to the National Pencil Factory to pick up her pay of $1.20. After doing that she was suppose to attend the parade in downtown Atlanta, GA, celebrating Confederate Memorial Day.
Mary never made it to the parade.
Early in the morning on the 27th, the night watchman found Mary's body in the basement of the building.
The police were called and took the elevator to the basement... When they "landed" an awful smell spread throughout the basement. When the elevator hit the basement floor it smashed a pile of human excrement. The police never took a sample.
With Mary's body were a couple of hand written notes that appeared to throw blame on one of the laborers of the business. Mary's purse was missing as was her pay.
In the great tradition of mishandled famous murder crime scenes like Jon Benet and Martha Moxley, the basement crime scene was quickly compromised by the influx of the curious.
Early in the investigation police began to focus on Leo Frank, who was Superintendent for the concern. It made sense that he would be questioned in that he would have been one of the last, if not the last person to see young Mary alive, because it was he who handed her the pay she earned.
Jim Conley, another worker for the firm was also questioned. Jim began to tell a story... Actually 4 stories. Over the course of the investigation, Jim Conley would give the police 4 different affidavits about what occurred on Saturday April 26th. In his "final" affidavit, he admitted that he was an accomplice to the murder. He stated that Leo Frank killed her after she rejected his sexual advances. And then Frank "paid off" Conley to help move the body to the basement via the elevator.
During the 26th, Conley admitted drinking alcohol and participating in a game of craps. Speaking of crap, Conley admitted being responsible for the excrement the elevator later mashed, when the police went to the basement to initially investigate the crime. In one of his stories Conley admitted leaving the pile in the elevator shaft on the morning of the 26th.
Based on Conley's 4th affidavit, the police arrested Leo Frank.
The trail was a circus and an early nominee for "Trial of the Century", attracting attention all over the country. Jim Conley was the "star" witness for the prosecution.
Frank was found guilty and sentenced to death by hanging.
From that point on the defense team made appeal after appeal.
During this time, there was the "battle of the newspapers" with northern newspapers exclaiming that Frank was denied a fair trial and Conley was not a credible witness.
On the other side newspapers in the south objected to the interference by outsiders.
Jim Conley was tried separately as an accomplice and was found guilty. He was sentenced to a year in prison (he was released after 10 months).
Failing in appeal after appeal, Frank's defense team eventually appealed Frank's death sentence to the then governor of Georgia, John Slaton, who would soon be leaving office.
Reading the book, one come away impressed with John Slaton. He took the job of evaluating the Frank case seriously. And while pondering his situation, he knew that if he commuted Frank's death sentence he would become the most unpopular man in Georgia.
In another interesting aspect of the case, the attorney who defended Jim Conley during his trial was asked by his friend, who happened to be a private investigator that worked for the defense team during Frank's appeal process, was asked to look into the Frank case. That attorney, William Smith, spent a great deal of time studying the case, especially the two notes left by the body.
Smith concluded, based on several things, that Jim Conley wrote the notes.
What eventually caused Slaton to stop the execution of Leo Frank (Frank was then left to endure a life sentence) was the "**** in the Shaft". If Conley's last affidavit story was exactly as he said it did, then the excrement would have been mashed when he brought the body of Mary Phagan down in the elevator after Leo Frank murdered her and not when the police came down in the elevator to investigate the crime.
Frank was transferred from death row to a labor camp outside of Atlanta.
The citizens of Georgia were furious at the stopping of the execution.
A group of several influential Georgian's got together and planned on kidnapping and lynching Leo Frank.
On August 16th, 1915, this is exactly what happened.
And as during the trial and the appeals process, northern papers were outraged over lynching and southern papers (generally speaking) said, "Mind your own business."
In the early 1980's, on his death bed, one witness came forward and claimed that he, also a young teenager like Mary Phagan, witnessed Jim Conley carry her body down the stairs to the basement and did not use the elevator as he stated in his final affidavit. He stated that he did not come forward at the time because Conley threatened he and his family. So he kept quiet. And while this did not prove Leo Frank wasn't involved, it did prove Conley's story, even his last one, was at least partially a fabrication.
Interestingly, both Mary Phagan and Jon Benet are buried in Marietta, GA.
Images of the Frank lynching can be found online... And are unsettling even today.
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Reverend Conehead
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Hannah Sabata is the sheer genius right here in Nebraska who robbed a bank for over 6K and then bragged about it on a video in Facebook, showing herself with all the cash. You can guess what happened next. Some criminals are brilliant masterminds. This girl isn't one of them.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/03/nebraska-teen-bank-robber-made-video/1744451/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/03/nebraska-teen-bank-robber-made-video/1744451/
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Wow! State is now going to take her freedom...
Pass2Run
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The case I'm really looking forward to seeing is the Sarah Boone suitcase murder case. I've never seen someone with so much gall. Like, she murdered that dude. Her case shows the flaws in the legal system when it comes to how women are treated vs. men in certain scenarios. In this case, I think they've had the wrong suspect the whole time. I"m not saying Jorge was innocent altogether. But there's more to the story, I'm sure. Seeing her behavior up close should help people understand the dynamic better.
Pass2Run
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I'm actually skeptical of this one. Many have said former Long Island Police Chief James Burke was the guy behind these murders. We've seen cases like the Golden State killer where police obviously know the killer is someone in law enforcement, and don't do the right thing, because they don't want to "tarnish the badge" or cross that proverbial blue line.
We'll see, I guess. Looks like there's still a possibility of two killers here.
https://pix11.com/news/local-news/l...ief-james-burke-unsolved-gilgo-beach-murders/
We'll see, I guess. Looks like there's still a possibility of two killers here.
https://pix11.com/news/local-news/l...ief-james-burke-unsolved-gilgo-beach-murders/