Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by jazzcat22, Aug 14, 2019.
Then I'm not understanding this convo.
No but should have. Nod going go to veteran if not #1 pick. But camp reviews etc all pointed toward starters. Definitely no bust reviews. Or needing years to develop
As I've said before, if Jerry Jones listened to many Cowboys fans around here, we'd have no team because almost every play on our roster from Jaylon Smith to Dak Prescott to Sean Lee to Zeke Elliott to Lael Collins to Jeff Heath to Byron Jones would have been traded or cut by now.
Patience, young grasshoppers, patience.
I never said "start" in my post. But it's some revisionist history if we are going to try to sell Hill as being a long term project that the Cowboys weren't expecting much from this year.
And as for your question............ last year, BJ Hill was taken in the 3rd round and played the 2nd most snaps at DT for the Giants and was actually pretty good. PJ Hall was taken in the 2nd round by the Raiders and he played the 2nd most snaps at DT for the Raiders.
In 2017, Malik McDowell was a 2nd rounder but he was a wack job. The other 2nd round DT was Tomlinson, who played the 2nd most snaps at DT his rookie year.
In 2016, Chris Jones was the first DT off the board in the 2nd round and he made an immediate impact in KC (granted, KC plays a 3-4 and Jones was playing a DE spot there, so not a total apples to apples comparison). The other DTs taken in the 2nd round that year were Austin Johnson (who didn't do much as a rookie), A'Shawn Robinson (was pretty effective his rookie year), Jarran Reed (pretty effective as a rookie) and Adam Gostis (didn't do much for the Broncos his rookie year).
So no, it's not rare to find a DT in the 2nd round that can make an impact. Note, I am not saying Hill is a bust by any stretch. I am not ready to say he won't even have an impact for us this year. But let's not re-write history here and act like the Cowboys took Hill knowing he would be a wash this year and need a year of training to become an effective player for us. Let's also not try to sell this idea that 2nd round DTs can't have impacts right from the start of their careers.
Yeah, no kidding. What the hell.
That's not my point. I'm saying you don't come straight in and start. Its very rare. Now you may eventually start later on as the season progresses but you don't go into a draft and in the 2nd round and say I have to draft my starter here. They should've traded up if they expected that.
And if he'd listened to the right fans, it wouldn't have taken us 23 years.
So you are saying that there are a lot of idiotic posts on this board?
You're lucky if you get an immediate starter from the mid first round on.
I'm not sure people even realize how many 1st rounders don't start right away.
Alright that's fair. A nice list of guys. I guess the Cowboys screwed the pooch then because I don't see Hill being ready this year to make a impact or eventually start. Too raw IMO.
That's what I'm trying to get them to understand. Sure there are exceptions but there are top 5 picks in the draft that don't make immediate impact. This draft thing is just a crap shoot.
I think the Cowboys wanted to get a DT high in this draft and I think they deferred to Marinelli for his guy and they typically do what Marinelli wants. It's how we ended up with Taco. It's almost the same situation as they wanted to come out of that draft with a DE early.
Marinelli likes these toolsy guys that he thinks he can mold. Let's hope Hill progresses at a different rate than Taco. I am not ready to say Hill can't provide some quality play for us this season either.
I just don't see him getting the opportunity unless a injury happens.
Hey Coach seen enough of inaccurate Panic Sally Dak Prescott.
Amazing as if you are in fact a coach and believe you can make Dak into a Franchise QB then the entire NFL should be full of Tom Brady's.
Last time I checked its not as QB are born and then fine tuned to greatness.
Dak never had it and never will.......
P.S. He's a sturdy good runner though that I'll give you!
In no way do I expect 2nd round non skill players to start immediately. Problem is I just think expectations were to high from fans. Anyone who followed the dt position from last year draft are surprised he went that high. Clearly a pick based on measurables also known as potential
Several thought the very same thing about LVE at draft time,when we selected him in the first round and add that he was limited and had to push thru a camp injury, and was limited in snaps until Lee injury occurred.
Byron Jones, to this very day, still would have never had the chance to be prove he
could a good player if we had kept the previous secondary coach who insisted that
Byron was more of a FS than he was a CB.
Some players just won't happen overnight- but its very important that Hill at least gets the key significant amount of snaps on the field to even have a chance of learning and improving..
As a fan I like Dak, as a former coach I seen a lot of good qualities. He can be a great QB with a supporting cast. He's much better than anything we could go out and get. I don't think he deserves top 5 money, but he will get it because of the market.
Leadership and toughness earns your players respect, he has that. Players play hard for him, if his demands get outta whack, that could change.
He doesn't make his teammates better with his arm, but he brings out the best in them with his leadership and grit.
Not going to happen all the time in a players 1st NFL vanilla PS game. And not without surrounding starters either.
I understand what you are saying. I guess it will take a few sacks to get some to say differently. Then they will say...yeah but it was against backup players, let's see it in real games...
He can' win with the hecklers on here.
I think part of the logic behind the hill pick was his combine performance and sparq score. I believe Saunders had a almost identical performance at the combine and had a far more productive college career than hill ,which is why the hill pick didn’t really make sense that me.
I wish the cowboys would have drafted Daylon Mack and had he and woods play the one tech
With Collins and Covington rotating at the three tech.
It's a process