UFC 116: Lesnar vs Carwin

[TheCount]

Botha in his prime was knocked out by a faded and way over the hill Tyson. He was a B level fighter at his peak and is way below that since.

It goes both ways though. I'm 100% positive Lesner couldn't make it 3 rounds with even mid level HW's in boxing. The two sports aren't translatable.

My argument was never that MMA was an inferior sport to boxing, only that it is still in its infancy compared to boxing and that the skill and training levels will continue to go up as the purses get higher and it becomes a more viable career path as opposed to a hobby.

You've already seen some of that.

We're now getting out first generation of new fighters in MMA that STARTED training as MMA Fighters. Just wait till athletes that would normally have gotten into football or basketball start joining the ranks, the athleticism will go through the roof. People like to think Brock is unique, but there are guys all over the world in professional sports that mix tremendous size and athleticism with quickness.

Imagine a guy like Ratliff training from day 1 as an MMA fighter, with that tenacity, intensity and athleticism he'd be right up there where Brock is now. Or a Lebron James even

(Un)fortunately for a lot of those guys, they didn't fail at the sport they grew up playing so they'll never have that opportunity but some guys will choose that route once the money and fame is there.

 

[Rampage]

This coming from the guy who just said Brock was the best in MMA



Shogun, as well as quite a few others in the LHW division, better fighters then Brock
Silva, MUCH better fighter then Brock
GSP, MUCH better fighter then Brock
Penn, even without a belt, much better fighter then Brock


Brock is the best HW in MMA right now but let's be real here some of these guys have more title defenses then Brock has fights, Brock has a long way to go before he's the best in the biz

I can't believe you said that. I am one of the biggest Lesnar fans but Fedor is still #1 in my opinion. shame on you, Ren. of and why didn't you post the rematch between Hari and Overeem?

I boxed as a kid and I agree. If you watch the fight it is obvious some of his punches had no power left in them after about 3 minutes of that fight. Heck at 2 minutes in you see a lot less power. The elbows however, were vicious. I think he needed one of those to end the fight. When it didn't, he was in trouble.

One last note, int he 1st round they did not touch gloves. They did in the 2nd. I think Brock respected him for beating him like that and I think he respected Brock for taking that beating.

That my friend was very cool to see. same with Carwin raising Brock's hand at the end. those guys put it all out there and respect was earned that night.

How much experience did Mike Tyson have when he won his first championship?

Antonio Gates didn't even play college football.

Some people just have an enormous amount of ability for a sport.

Lyoto Machida was a Brazilian Karate champion.

BJ Penn won the Mundials (World BJJ Championship) after only 3-4 years of training. Does this make BJJ any less of a sport?

Georges St Pierre has Canadians wanting him to wrestle for the Canadian Olympic team even though he has no prior experience except from MMA in it. Does this mean wrestling isn't a sport either?

1st American to ever do it

 

[Hostile]

That my friend was very cool to see. same with Carwin raising Brock's hand at the end. those guys put it all out there and respect was earned that night.

I gotta agree with you 100% on that.

 

[Ren]

Botha in his prime was knocked out by a faded and way over the hill Tyson. He was a B level fighter at his peak and is way below that since.

It goes both ways though. I'm 100% positive Lesner couldn't make it 3 rounds with even mid level HW's in boxing. The two sports aren't translatable.

My argument was never that MMA was an inferior sport to boxing, only that it is still in its infancy compared to boxing and that the skill and training levels will continue to go up as the purses get higher and it becomes a more viable career path as opposed to a hobby.

Any sport where Botha can become a champ can't be that good either, see how that works, it goes both ways too

 

[jchap]

Any sport where Botha can become a champ can't be that good either, see how that works, it goes both ways too

You still don't get it do you? Boxing is not MMA. No MMA fighter could have lasted any time at all with Botha in BOXING just like how Botha was not well suited for MMA.

 

[Ren]

You still don't get it do you? Boxing is not MMA. No MMA fighter could have lasted any time at all with Botha in BOXING just like how Botha was not well suited for MMA.

so let me get this straight, boxer are *gasp* better boxers then MMA fighters?

Way to state the obvious

How ever that was never my point, you brought up how much more skilled fighters boxers are yet every time they try their luck at any thing other then boxing they don't fare to well, the amateurish (your words not mine) MMA fighters do much better.

How can that be if boxers are the superior fighters they're unable to excel at any fighting sport other then boxing while MMA fighters are?
Surely a sport where in your words any skilless beefcake can excel should be easy for these superior fighters

 

[MarionBarberThe4th]

I dont know if Brocks stand up will ever get much better. His arms are so huge he just cant throw crisp punches.



So after Brock beats Cain he gets Carwin again or?.........

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I remember when Lesnar went to Vikings training camp and lasted about two weeks. LOL.

 

[MarionBarberThe4th]

I remember when Lesnar went to Vikings training camp and lasted about two weeks. LOL.

He almost made the team

 

[zrinkill]

He almost made the team

Yup .... they wanted to send him to NFL Europe ..... but he declined.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Yup .... they wanted to send him to NFL Europe ..... but he declined.

That is true. I really wish he would have went just to see if he could have made it in the NFL.

 

[CATCH17]

Lol @ Fedor being the best heavyweight.

The guy is Boise State. He don't play nobody.

 

[Rampage]

Lol @ Fedor being the best heavyweight.

The guy is Boise State. He don't play nobody.

who is Brock and his 5 wins? c'mon man, Brock is moving on up but he's not there yet.

 

[CATCH17]

who is Brock and his 5 wins? c'mon man, Brock is moving on up but he's not there yet.

If he fought Fedor he would win.

He would get an inevitable take down, put the arm around his neck, and either punch him out (Mir) or tap him out (Carwin).

 

[MarionBarberThe4th]

Isnt Carwin a way better puncher than Fedor?

If Carwin couldnt finish him who can?

 

[CATCH17]

Isnt Carwin a way better puncher than Fedor?

If Carwin couldnt finish him who can?

Fedor would have to submit him which is possible unless Lesnar gets a take down.

Both guys could win the fight easy but if I had to pick i'd take Lesnar because he has more upside than anyone in MMA right now and Fedor couldn't defend his take down.

6 fights and is the world champ.

 

[BigWillie]

I remember years ago when Arlovski was the UFC champ - Dana, Joe and more importantly, UFC fans everywhere questioned how could he be stopped? He had excellent standup, he had a good ground game. He was THE complete fighter who could not be stopped.

Then barely 2 years after he lost his belt to Sylvia, he was a bum and did not deserve to be in the UFC.

Ricco Rodriguez was that guy.

Randy Couture was that guy.

Frank Mir was that guy.

The list goes on and on of guys who people claim cannot be defeated as heavyweights, until they get defeated. Then they are JAG.

You could say GSP was unbeatable with his superior wrestling and striking - until Serra tested his chin.

Machida's defense was unparalled and no one could touch him. Until Shogun showed that high level Muay Thai can slow down anyone.

BJ Penn was reinvigorated and in-shape so he could not be beat, until Frankie Edgar out-pointed him.

This beating Lesnar took reminds me of the frenzy that came after Randleman dropped Fedor on his neck/head.

[youtube]5K0OJ6-aauo[/youtube]

If you have never seen it, or cannot watch this video - Randleman has Fedor around the waist from his back while standing. Randleman suplexes Fedor in the air and literally drops Fedor on his neck/head.

It was a miracle he didn't knock Fedor out, much less break his neck. What made this legendary is that within 30 seconds of this happening Fedor went from the bottom to switching Randleman and getting top position. He then proceeded to sink a kimura and end the fight very quickly.

Now though, Fedor is washed up, and Brock is the flavor of the week.

It's the cycle of MMA.

Do I buy into the Lesnar hype? No. His last fight proved he has the ability to recover, but it also proved he still has flaws, and flaws that he has not corrected yet. Going into the fight Brock wanted to talk about his improved striking, but yet it looked awful still.

"But if Carwin cannot stop him, who can?"

Well, I'm going to ask you - if Fedor can lay inside the guard of Nog for 20 minutes, how the heck is Werdum going to catch him?

'Ish' happens. It's MMA. If someone catches Brock more cleanly than Carwin was able to, what is going to stop the fight from ending? For example, the elbow Carwin dropped. Brock was able to slightly deflect that elbow with his hand on it's way down. If he had not, do you think Brock takes that elbow cleanly to the chin and continues on?

Brock is a UNBELIEVABLY talented fighter in certain areas. But he is also EXTREMELY flawed in certain areas. Those flaws make him vulnerable regardless of any Ivan Drago hype he has on him.

 

[DemonBlood]

Brock never said that .... stop making crap up to try and prove your point.

Brock had that barrage very well defended ..... even Shane said he new he was not doing any damage when he got him against the cage.

Oh yeah, Brock never said that to Kenny? He said exactly what I said word for word...Here is the interview:

http://sherdogblog.craveonline.com:80/blog/2010-07-06#25498

 

[DemonBlood]

No matter how you spin it, you are wrong. It's wrong to call people fanboys just because you don't like Lesnar, and you are wrong about stopping the fight. The announcers didn't even think it was going to be stopped. In fact they said he was punching himself out. Yeah, he landed some shots. No duh. No one misses every shot and the guy on the bottom always has to defend himself and Brock had to. You are wrong. Period.

Ugh, look Hostile, I respect you a lot and I'm a big fan of yours. You know more about football and life in general then I'll probably ever know. It's clear though that what I'm trying to point out to you as it pertains to MMA is going over your head.

I know you like to argue but I'm not going to argue with you on this subject. I believe the fight should have been stopped and you believe it should have not. Neither one of us will stop believing what we believe. End of story. Period.

 

[Ren]

who is Brock and his 5 wins? c'mon man, Brock is moving on up but he's not there yet.

Fedor is only a part time member of the division at this point, the only thing of any relevance he's done in the last 2 years is to catapult Werdum into contention. That and he has a recent loss means he's not at the top and shouldn't be at the top any more

Isnt Carwin a way better puncher than Fedor?

No, Fedor is a way better puncher then Carwin