UFC 116: Lesnar vs Carwin

[Ren]

guys, Carwin(a 270 pound man) has never let an opponent out of the 1st round. he hurt Lesnar like he has all his other opponents and proceeded to give everything he had for 3 and a half minutes to try and finish him off. If any of you have a punching bag go punch it with everything you have for 3 and a half minutes without stopping. then rest for 1 minute and start doing it again and tell me you seriously aren't gassed.

Of course your average person will be gassed, but if you're a professional fighter you should be able to do that just fine.
We used to have a very similar drill back when i did muay thai at the end of every work out, go all out for 3x 3min with 30 sec rest in between. Do that at the end of every workout and over time you should get trough at the very least round 1 fairly easily. It's really no excuse for professional fighters at that level to be that gassed after 1 round unless you're on the receiving end of it.

 

[Rampage]

Good point. Also everything takes cardio in MMA. Trying to get the takedown and defending the takedown require more cardio than most people realize. Also the ground game tires you out even more than the stand up (at least it does me), because it's a constant battle for position.

MMA requires multiple kinds of cardio. You have to have long distance cardio, you have to be able to go in spurts, and your muscles can't tire out from constantly being worked.

exactly. not only the punches but defending Brock's takedowns in the 1st and having a guy the size of Brock on top of you will where you down. and i'm not even including the adrenaline rush of fighting live on ppv,under the lights, in front of all those people with the hype that fight had. you can not train for the adrenaline rush you get in there. just ask Rampage about his last fight.

Of course your average person will be gassed, but if you're a professional fighter you should be able to do that just fine.
We used to have a very similar drill back when i did muay thai at the end of every work out, go all out for 3x 3min with 30 sec rest in between. Do that at the end of every workout and over time you should get trough at the very least round 1 fairly easily. It's really no excuse for professional fighters at that level to be that gassed after 1 round unless you're on the receiving end of it.

most pro fighters aren't 275 pounds of muscle.

 

[Ren]

most pro fighters aren't 275 pounds of muscle.

Brock is, nearly anyways, so that theory can be put to rest, getting hit takes more out of you then doing the hitting so size can't be that limiting

Carwin wasn't in very good shape and it got exposed big time, he can, should and probably will work on improving that because it is possible even with his size

 

[CATCH17]

Brock is, nearly anyways, so that theory can be put to rest, getting hit takes more out of you then doing the hitting so size can't be that limiting

Carwin wasn't in very good shape and it got exposed big time, he can, should and probably will work on improving that because it is possible even with his size

No because Brock is a freak of nature.

 

[Ren]

No because Brock is a freak of roids.

I'm sure that's what you meant to say

 

[TheCount]

Of course your average person will be gassed, but if you're a professional fighter you should be able to do that just fine.
We used to have a very similar drill back when i did muay thai at the end of every work out, go all out for 3x 3min with 30 sec rest in between. Do that at the end of every workout and over time you should get trough at the very least round 1 fairly easily. It's really no excuse for professional fighters at that level to be that gassed after 1 round unless you're on the receiving end of it.

It's not like Carwin quit on the stool, he was just tired like anyone (professional fighters included) would be after going all out for 3 minutes straight. He obviously was prepared for the takedown but his defense technique wasn't perfect ONCE and Brock was all over him.

 

[zrinkill]

I'm sure that's what you meant to say

Nope .....

Brocks a freak of nature ....

And no matter how much you wish it .... or how much you say he is gonna get beat .... he is the best the MMA world has to offer.

 

[Ren]

Nope .....

Brocks a freak of nature ....

And no matter how much you wish it .... or how much you say he is gonna get beat .... he is the best the MMA world has to offer.

Pleas tell me you're joking

 

[CATCH17]

Pleas tell me you're joking

He's not the most skilled fighter in MMA but he is the funnest to watch for sure.

It used to be Anderson Silva but something got into him and he wants to dance and throw 2 punches a fight.


But I wouldn't roll around laughing at people who say Lesnar is the best in the business. He is the best Heavyweight in the business, as of now, for sure.

 

[zrinkill]

Pleas tell me you're joking

No I am not .... you have said every fight that Brock cannot win ....

And he keeps winning.

You are too biased to see the truth.

He will crush Fedor if they ever fight .... and you will come of with some other lame excuse on why he won.

 

[neosapien23]

Of course your average person will be gassed, but if you're a professional fighter you should be able to do that just fine.
We used to have a very similar drill back when i did muay thai at the end of every work out, go all out for 3x 3min with 30 sec rest in between. Do that at the end of every workout and over time you should get trough at the very least round 1 fairly easily. It's really no excuse for professional fighters at that level to be that gassed after 1 round unless you're on the receiving end of it.

Exactly what I was thinking. I do understand muscles take alot more oxygen to feed but Carwin's cardio was exposed. When I was in the army, we would do as many push up as we could muster in 2 minutes and I would max out at about 80, we would then do as many situps as we could do in 2 minutes, I would usually hit about 76. We would then run 2 miles which I use to finish at about 12 minutes and 30 seconds. I can't do that stuff anymore as I am no longer a soldier, but a professional fighter should have been in better shape period even if he went all out for 3 minutes.

 

[Ren]

No I am not .... you have said every fight that Brock cannot win ....

And he keeps winning.

You are too biased to see the truth.

He will crush Fedor if they ever fight .... and you will come of with some other lame excuse on why he won.

This coming from the guy who just said Brock was the best in MMA



Shogun, as well as quite a few others in the LHW division, better fighters then Brock
Silva, MUCH better fighter then Brock
GSP, MUCH better fighter then Brock
Penn, even without a belt, much better fighter then Brock


Brock is the best HW in MMA right now but let's be real here some of these guys have more title defenses then Brock has fights, Brock has a long way to go before he's the best in the biz

 

[jchap]

Exactly what I was thinking. I do understand muscles take alot more oxygen to feed but Carwin's cardio was exposed. When I was in the army, we would do as many push up as we could muster in 2 minutes and I would max out at about 80, we would then do as many situps as we could do in 2 minutes, I would usually hit about 76. We would then run 2 miles which I use to finish at about 12 minutes and 30 seconds. I can't do that stuff anymore as I am no longer a soldier, but a professional fighter should have been in better shape period even if he went all out for 3 minutes.

The people here contending that anyone would be gassed after going all out for 3 minutes may be right. Boxers get gassed too if they throw wild haymakers for a full round (see david haye for example ). The difference is, elite boxers know how to press an attack with efficiency and intelligence so that they don't get gassed and are more effective. It once again comes down to the amateurish level of MMA currently where big strong meatheads can dominate because they are big strong meatheads. It has something to do with the nature of the sport but also to do with the relative immaturity of the sport with respect to traditional ones like boxing.

 

[Cover 2]

The people here contending that anyone would be gassed after going all out for 3 minutes may be right. Boxers get gassed too if they throw wild haymakers for a full round (see david haye for example ). The difference is, elite boxers know how to press an attack with efficiency and intelligence so that they don't get gassed and are more effective. It once again comes down to the amateurish level of MMA currently where big strong meatheads can dominate because they are big strong meatheads. It has something to do with the nature of the sport but also to do with the relative immaturity of the sport with respect to traditional ones like boxing.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Hostile]

guys, Carwin(a 270 pound man) has never let an opponent out of the 1st round. he hurt Lesnar like he has all his other opponents and proceeded to give everything he had for 3 and a half minutes to try and finish him off. If any of you have a punching bag go punch it with everything you have for 3 and a half minutes without stopping. then rest for 1 minute and start doing it again and tell me you seriously aren't gassed.

I boxed as a kid and I agree. If you watch the fight it is obvious some of his punches had no power left in them after about 3 minutes of that fight. Heck at 2 minutes in you see a lot less power. The elbows however, were vicious. I think he needed one of those to end the fight. When it didn't, he was in trouble.

One last note, int he 1st round they did not touch gloves. They did in the 2nd. I think Brock respected him for beating him like that and I think he respected Brock for taking that beating.

 

[jchap]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

You're right. I'm sure there are tons of sports where someone who has no relevant experience other than a decade old vaguely related amateur background could come in and instantly be established the best in the world. Face it, this guy was fighting a mechanical engineer. This sport is still incredibly immature. That is not to say it won't change, because as the money gets better it will.

 

[Cover 2]

You're right. I'm sure there are tons of sports where someone who has no relevant experience other than a decade old vaguely related amateur background could come in and instantly be established the best in the world. Face it, this guy was fighting a mechanical engineer. This sport is still incredibly immature. That is not to say it won't change, because as the money gets better it will.

How much experience did Mike Tyson have when he won his first championship?

Antonio Gates didn't even play college football.

Some people just have an enormous amount of ability for a sport.

Lyoto Machida was a Brazilian Karate champion.

BJ Penn won the Mundials (World BJJ Championship) after only 3-4 years of training. Does this make BJJ any less of a sport?

Georges St Pierre has Canadians wanting him to wrestle for the Canadian Olympic team even though he has no prior experience except from MMA in it. Does this mean wrestling isn't a sport either?

 

[neosapien23]

You're right. I'm sure there are tons of sports where someone who has no relevant experience other than a decade old vaguely related amateur background could come in and instantly be established the best in the world. Face it, this guy was fighting a mechanical engineer. This sport is still incredibly immature. That is not to say it won't change, because as the money gets better it will.

Both guys have alot of experience in wrestling and both guys could beat just about any other heavyweight MMA fighter as of right now. You do have a point about better athletes trying to make it in MMA as the money gets better, but Carwin is no bum. As of right now Lesnar is the best heavyweight fighter in the world period. In a straight up street fight he would hand Klitschko his *** despite the millions more Wladimir has made in his lifetime.

 

[Ren]

You're right. I'm sure there are tons of sports where someone who has no relevant experience other than a decade old vaguely related amateur background could come in and instantly be established the best in the world. Face it, this guy was fighting a mechanical engineer. This sport is still incredibly immature. That is not to say it won't change, because as the money gets better it will.

Since K-1 is somewhat of a middle ground between boxing and MMA you should look up how some boxers have done in K-1

Here's how some MMA fighters have done in K-1


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Badr hari was the K-1 HW champ at the time of this fight

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Musashi is a 2 time K-1 world GP finalist

Both these guys are considered good K-1 fighter


Former HW boxing champ trying his luck



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Fujimoto is pretty average, Badr Hari they guy in the first video who lost to a MMA fighter KO'd him in less then a minute


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Mighty Mo is not considered very good, he's somewhat of a joke


There's plenty more Botha Fail if you wanna look it up. If Boxers are so much better then MMA fighters then surly even a washed up former champ should be able to beat average K-1 fighters in K-1 rules when these "amateurish" MMA fighters can beat some of the best in K-1


Another Boxer trying his luck

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Boxing really only works in Boxing, the stance in boxing exposes that front leg while they got their weight on it and it never ends well, you really got to cross train before you can even compete and if you start cross training then you're really doing MMA. Pure boxing will never work regardless of how skilled they are because it's to limited and have some fundamental weaknesses when faced with different styles of fighting

There are plenty more examples of both MMA fighters and boxers in K-1 with similar results

 

[jchap]

Botha in his prime was knocked out by a faded and way over the hill Tyson. He was a B level fighter at his peak and is way below that since.

It goes both ways though. I'm 100% positive Lesner couldn't make it 3 rounds with even mid level HW's in boxing. The two sports aren't translatable.

My argument was never that MMA was an inferior sport to boxing, only that it is still in its infancy compared to boxing and that the skill and training levels will continue to go up as the purses get higher and it becomes a more viable career path as opposed to a hobby.