Uh oh, tight end trouble

[ABQCOWBOY]

It is funny though... If Fisher had said that Escobar looked great, no one would be calling him a know-nothing media knee jerker.

Fisher is about 90% positive on what he says about the Cowboys. He's the unofficial-official insider of the Cowboys' own flagship radio station. If he says something less than positive, there might be some truth to it.

It's true. I don't really love Fisher but he usually is hooked into things. If he says there is a problem, I'm guessing that there probably is. But honestly, what he's saying is that a Rookie, before his first TC, is not strong enough to be able to play in the NFL at his position yet. Is that really a reach?

 

[jobberone]

It's true. I don't really love Fisher but he usually is hooked into things. If he says there is a problem, I'm guessing that there probably is. But honestly, what he's saying is that a Rookie, before his first TC, is not strong enough to be able to play in the NFL at his position yet. Is that really a reach?

Nope. Wasn't counting on Escobar to block much. A little concerned about Hanna but that's a watch and wait situation. Generally but not always the light comes on.

 

[Tom Jones]

I think this report is a bit of a "knee-jerk".

I don't think anyone (most?) expected Escobar to improve his strength much between the beginning of May and now. The team knew what he was when they drafted him. His rookie season will be all about his receiving skills. 2014 will be more about having a complete game.

On the 16th of July I'm not going to fret about Hanna.

Let's see where he's at 6 weeks from now. My guess is that he'll know a lot more about the offense than he does now.

I agree with the knee jerk reaction.

I'm quite surprised about this report on BOTH tight ends. Hmmmm, something doesn't smell right. This comment about Hanna not getting it??? Is Fish for real, or is he just fishing for a story. There's now no way in heck that HANNA ain't getting it! Sorry Fish, but you must have taken too much of something

 

[xwalker]

You can calculate a players speed in Miles Per Hour using the difference between their 10-yard and 20-yard times. Escobar tested slightly faster from 10 yars to 20 yards than Witten. The same is true using the 10-yard and 40-yard times.

Witten was faster off the line but Escobar had a higher top speed.

If you have a race between two identical cars but car1 is required to only use 1st gear while car2 is required to only use 2nd gear, then car1 will win off the line but car2 will have a higher top speed. Car2 will also win if they start from a 20mph rolling start.

Generally, accelerating out of their break is more important for a receiver than accelerating off the line. Accelerating out of a break is similar to the cars starting a race with a 20mph rolling start.

 

[Tom Jones]

Mike Fisher reported some troubling news last night while browsing the local airwaves. (For the record, Fisher is a good reporter, though his commentary is difficult to stomach unless you're left of Fidel Castro.)

According to Fisher, we've got major issues at the tight end position currently.

First, Escobar has the strength of a sophomore girl in high school. He can block no one, and he's getting pushed around at the line of scrimmage like a ragdoll. He only pressed 225 a total of 12 times at the combine, which is extremely weak. There are literally gobs of high school football players that can do that.

Second, Hanna ain't getting it. The 12 and 13 scheme packages are apparently not soaking into his brain pan in Callahan's zone blocking scheme. It's apparently been preached to him for months now, but it might as well be written in Klingon crayon, because the dude is lost.

Hanna might be fixable in a long camp, but this Escobar thing is troubling. Strength is an offseason gain. To make things more dicey, Vickers was cut, so unless this McSurdy experiment works, there probably won't be a fullback on the roster.

Mostly, I think this means that Dante Rosario is going to be the #2 tight end on the roster.

On a good note, Fisher also said that Will Allen looks tremendous so far, and the coaches think he'll be a big contributor this season.

Erod, please don't stretch what someone says.Here is Fisher's tweet: Issue 4) TE James Hanna facing big learning curve as he works to grasp many responsibilities in 12 Personnel-featured O.
NOWHERE did Fish say that Hanna ain't getting it. If you want to give YOUR OPINION on what Fish is trying to say then do so, but please don't speak for another.

 

[Tom Jones]

Would the Cowboys and their super talented scouting department sign a highly heralded TE, or any player, with the strength "of a sophomore girl"???? geeeez!

 

[DFWJC]

How on earth can people say this was a head scratcher? We tried to sign a 2nd TE last year, didn't get it done and gave Phillips a chance. Phillips sucked and we absolutely needed a #2 TE. Had we not been able to trade down in the 1st, we likely would have used a first on one. It is an obvious need.

Even more importantly, we need a TE who has the potential to be a #1 TE in this league down the road. Folks seem to forget that we were very close to a Witten-less season last year. Witten is a special player -- a likely HoF'er. But expecting him to continue to produce as a #1 for more than another couple of years is optimistic. It is a tough position and things go downhill quickly after 10 seasons.

Calm down Abe.
Just because it was a surprsie to me does not mean it was a bad pick or that i do not value the position.
The guy could end up being a star for all I know. It was just puzzling to me at the time for the following reasons:

• We had all-star Witten and up and coming Hanna on the roster already
• There were some reasonably priced TEs on the market to back them up. If hanna did not work out we could go after one next year after adreesing what i though were more pressing needs
• As I said, in my mind, we had some big needs elsewhere that i thought would warrant the 2nd round pick this year more than a 3rd string TE. of course, he may end up being 2nd team and may even start in 12 sets, so that has changed since draft day.
• Some players on the board were DT John Hankins, LB Jamie Collins, OG Larry Warford, OG Brian EWinters, LB Sio Moore, OT Terron Armstead, DT Bennie Logan, LB Arther Brown....etc
• It's not crazy to think (at the time) that we would not be grabbing a TE.

Again, that was just my thought on draft day.
No big deal

 

[Bullflop]

On a more positive note, Escobar is widely regarded to have the best pair of hands in the rookie class. While it's true his blocking leaves much to be desired, Jay Novacek wasn't much of a blocker, either and he had a pretty decent career, nevertheless. More often than not, all a TE has to do to be effective is merely get in the way of a would-be tackler to get the job done. Novacek was noted for doing just that and was able to do quite well, despite not being a "textbook" blocker.

 

[AbeBeta]

Calm down Abe.
Just because it was a surprsie to me does not mean it was a bad pick or that i do not value the position.
The guy could end up being a star for all I know. It was just puzzling to me at the time for the following reasons:

• We had all-star Witten and up and coming Hanna on the roster already
• There were some reasonably priced TEs on the market to back them up. If hanna did not work out we could go after one next year after adreesing what i though were more pressing needs
• As I said, in my mind, we had some big needs elsewhere that i thought would warrant the 2nd round pick this year more than a 3rd string TE. of course, he may end up being 2nd team and may even start in 12 sets, so that has changed since draft day.
• Some players on the board were DT John Hankins, LB Jamie Collins, OG Larry Warford, OG Brian EWinters, LB Sio Moore, OT Terron Armstead, DT Bennie Logan, LB Arther Brown....etc
• It's not crazy to think (at the time) that we would not be grabbing a TE.

Again, that was just my thought on draft day.
No big deal

Up and coming Hanna? He caught 8 passes.

 

[superpunk]

It is funny though... If Fisher had said that Escobar looked great, no one would be calling him a know-nothing media knee jerker.

Fisher is about 90% positive on what he says about the Cowboys. He's the unofficial-official insider of the Cowboys' own flagship radio station. If he says something less than positive, there might be some truth to it.

I think the ridiculous part is saying these things before pads have even gone on. Maybe you could tell Hanna was having mental problems in minicamps but jumping from that to all this is stupid. Our 12 formation is in trouble? yeah ok buddy whatever.

 

[arglebargle]

This is a quote of a scout, from the PFW early draft (pre-combine) guide:
"I was down on Gavin Escobar as a blocker after watching the Boise game -- he flashed and didn't work his feet. Then I ended up watching three more and thought he did a lot better. He's an interesting guy, especially with the way this league is trending."

So, not strong enough now to be a good inline blocker. Everyone pretty much agrees there. He's apparantly not afraid of blocking, he just needs more strength and technique. Where will he get that??

The profile on him there also said he was a good, athletic, and dependable reciever who could move the chains and factor in in the red zone.

 

[DrKennethNoisewater]

Calm down Abe.
Just because it was a surprsie to me does not mean it was a bad pick or that i do not value the position.
The guy could end up being a star for all I know. It was just puzzling to me at the time for the following reasons:

• We had all-star Witten and up and coming Hanna on the roster already
• There were some reasonably priced TEs on the market to back them up. If hanna did not work out we could go after one next year after adreesing what i though were more pressing needs
• As I said, in my mind, we had some big needs elsewhere that i thought would warrant the 2nd round pick this year more than a 3rd string TE. of course, he may end up being 2nd team and may even start in 12 sets, so that has changed since draft day.
• Some players on the board were DT John Hankins, LB Jamie Collins, OG Larry Warford, OG Brian EWinters, LB Sio Moore, OT Terron Armstead, DT Bennie Logan, LB Arther Brown....etc
• It's not crazy to think (at the time) that we would not be grabbing a TE.

Again, that was just my thought on draft day.
No big deal

Completely agree...it was a bad pick. I'd add Swearinger, Hunt, and Lacy to those who we passed on that would have served the team better. Warford really bothers me...we did not even have him on our board, horrid.

 

[noshame]

All this from the underwear Olympics, relax folks.

 

[DrKennethNoisewater]

Considering that our big move offensively was to move to the 2 TE set and it sounds like 2 of our young TEs are having issues with it...I'd say it is cause for concern. Ignorance is bliss though I guess.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I think the ridiculous part is saying these things before pads have even gone on. Maybe you could tell Hanna was having mental problems in minicamps but jumping from that to all this is stupid. Our 12 formation is in trouble? yeah ok buddy whatever.

What I don't get is why this is coming out now, in the dead period when no workouts have been conducted for weeks.

Like you (or someone) said, none of it matters right now. Good thing is that soon there will be actual workouts on the field and even games to talk about.

 

[superpunk]

Considering that our big move offensively was to move to the 2 TE set and it sounds like 2 of our young TEs are having issues with it...I'd say it is cause for concern. Ignorance is bliss though I guess.

"move to it" as in run the same stuff we've been running for years.

 

[DrKennethNoisewater]

"move to it" as in run the same stuff we've been running for years.

That is not true. Our base offense was a two back set. You see one offense had two backs and one TE, while this one has one back and two TEs.

 

[superpunk]

That is not true. Our base offense was a two back set. You see one offense had two backs and one TE, while this one has one back and two TEs.

the only year that's even remotely true was last season, because we had such a hard time replacing Bennett.

our base (although so many sets are used there is really no point even calling it that) has been 2 TE for the duration of Jason's time in Dallas in any coaching position. This isn't a "move".

 

[DrKennethNoisewater]

So a completely different offensive set than the season before...hopefully you can see the difference.

 

[Aven8]

I thought we signed Escobar to end our redzone TD problem? Not our inline blocking problem.

That's all I care about.