Umpire was out of position

[DCBoysfan]

There are many reasons why we lost. That’s one of the functions of this board. To discuss all of the good and bad things that were a factor in the game.

It’s not complicated at all.

I understand the functions of the board, but only one home team that played this past Wildcard weekend could not muster 20 points.

That team is currently sitting home right now. I doubt that is a coincidence.

 

[shabazz]

I dunno...all I can say is there should be SOME kind of penalty on this ref. Illegal touching, roughing the Dak......improper ball placement...SOMETHING sheesh!

looks more like a #metoo offense

 

[jsb357]

Umpire was out of position

does not matter

it's SB or bust next year... right Jerry?

 

[DogFace]

I understand the functions of the board, but only one home team that played this past Wildcard weekend could not muster 20 points.

That team is currently sitting home right now. I doubt that is a coincidence.

Right. Again. This is a separate topic. This is about the spotting of the ball. Not about how many points we scored.

So, what I’m saying is we can discuss them both. We can even add some other topics in. It’s well within the rules.

We are specifically talking about the spotting of the ball, why it was off, and maybe thoughts on how to improve the procedure.

 

[Biag]

He actually did something wrong with the ball. He gave it to the Center to snap it, instead of looking for the ref and saying “here is the ball, we are already lined up and your wasting time”..

at least then they could have cried about it.

Dak’s explanation in the OC shows he still doesn’t get it. He says he spiked the ball. But that has zero to do with the issue, which is, you gave it to the center to hike it to you, when the ref is supposed to set the ball. This is what he said:



He then says,



Sounds like he’s making stuff up. First he says he’s not even sure what happened, then he says an umpire usually just taps it (sure Buddy), then he says he knew the ref was going to touch the ball…

If you watch the replay there isnt a single ref in view. Who was he supposed to give it to? That doesnt change the fact that the play never should have been called. He ran the play that was given.

 

[tyke1doe]

For one full time refs are actually trying to build a career and they depend on that career. Not just some side gig because they think it’s fun. No more guys in their 50’s and 60’s either. Younger guys that want a career in the profession.

Hiring younger guys isn't necessarily a remedy. You get to the pros working through the high school and college football ranks. In essence, it takes time to get to the pro level, which is why you don't see as many younger refs.

Youth can't replace experience, no matter how you try to force it. Pay doesn't replace experience either. You have to be on the field and work the game in order to develop experience. And TIME is a factor of experience.

As an aside, I have a friend who is a SEC ref. He started with high school football games. Took him about 5-7 years before he moved to the college level. He worked the "lower level" college games until he landed a spot with the SEC. He desires to be a NFL ref, but he has to put the years in.

Second have them answer questions from the press about bad calls. Make them explain how they missed a guy taking his helmet off 3 ft from them or why they can’t keep up with the play clock or spot a ball with a few crucial seconds left.

First, that's not going to happen even if you pay referees.
Second, what do you expect to get from subjecting the refers to the press? A confession? No, you're not going to get that. And, really, that will only undermine the integrity of the game. The ideal is for the refs to be neutral. The more you subject them to public scrutiny, you INCREASE claims of bias, not reduce bias claims. Let people think what they want. You don't VALIDATE their opinions by feeding them. You want refs to be neutral so allegiances don't build among the fans. Furthermore, refs aren't supposed to be celebrities. Having them sit down and answer the press creates a forum to make refs more visible - too visible - to audiences just like athletes are. It sounds good, but I can see problems with this from jump street.
Third, mistakes happen. It's part of humanity. And, of course, if calls go against your team, you're more likely to feel that the refs cheated. But that's fandom, which is even more bias. You don't want to enhance that by making celebrities out of referees.
Fourth, again, the NFL has an internal review process. Refs who continually blow calls don't get to call certain games and if they're REALLY bad, they won't be refs for long. I think this is better because reffing is hard. You need to be one to fully understand. For six years, until I took a hiatus, was a community recreation league and high school league (private schools) baseball umpire. In no way am I on the level of a pro ref or umpire, but I understand how difficult it is from the inside. And I've noticed a few things:

1. Refs and umpires are trying to do the best they can.
2. Refs and umpires don't have time for bias. There have been kids and teams I know and like whose games I've had to call. When I'm trying to determine whether the catcher tags the runner coming home, I don't have time for bias. I'm trying to make the correct call.
3. Refs and umpires are under CONSTANT scrutiny from players, from coaches and from the public - all of whom think they know more than the referees and are ready to challenge them whenever a call goes against them. A lot of people can't take that type scrutiny. My wife often asks me why I do it because she cringes when I tell her some of the stories of how players, coaches and parents act towards umpires.
4. Refs and umpires have an inordinate amount of rules to learn. They have to know the game backwards and forwards, especially the higher up you go. Again, you learn by studying but you learn on-the-job. You learn how to deal with situations by going through those situations.

If they know they will have to answer for ridiculously bad “mistakes” then I think they’d stop or at least lesson them.

Answer how? What can be done with full-time refs that can't be done with part-time refs?
Second, you know what generally happens when people get punished for making mistakes? They make MORE mistakes. That's why the whole concept of positive reinforcement was developed.
If you tell someone, "Don't make this mistake again. Don't make this mistake again. Don't make this mistake again." Guess what's going to happen?
He's going to make the mistake AGAIN because you've reinforced "mistake" into his brain.
What corrects mistakes is TRAINING!.
If your offensive line continues to jump offsides, you don't keep saying, "Stop jumping offsides." Rather, you TRAIN them to move at the snap of the ball.
There's no better teacher than experience.
Now if by paying refs full-time, they get better training, then that's a good argument. But they're still going to have to apply that training to a real game. But that would apply to both part-time and full-time refs.

 

[tyke1doe]

If you watch the replay there isnt a single ref in view. Who was he supposed to give it to? That doesnt change the fact that the play never should have been called. He ran the play that was given.

Shouldn't Dak know beforehand which ref gets the ball? Wouldn't that be important to know with 14 seconds left in a game that determines whether you move on or go home?

 

[Starforever]

I don't care.

With 14 seconds left they put their chances on the foot speed of a 60 year old man to run up and set the ball. It was a stupid play in that situation.

People keep using his age, but I have seen 50 years old refs move faster than that.

 

[khiladi]

If you watch the replay there isnt a single ref in view. Who was he supposed to give it to? That doesnt change the fact that the play never should have been called. He ran the play that was given.

I agree. I changed my position on the matter after watching the video once again. The ref completely botched it, not Dak. And I don’t like Dak as our QB at all.

 

[glimmerman]

Should have never came down to that. I liked the QB draw call, but not at that point in the game. How about the 3rd quarter when we needed a spark.

 

[jaythecowboy]

I know there’s a zillion threads about this, but I haven’t seen this posted.

I was in section C312 and I had a perfect view of the final seconds. My friend, seated next to me, was recording those last sections on his cell phone.

Yeah, it probably wasn’t the best play call but what I can tell you is that there was plenty of time still on the clock when Dak slid. He didn’t do anything wrong with the ball. There’s one referee who is charged with placing it.

Now you can call this conspiratal, you can say that this particular referee was daydreaming or maybe he just never expected a QB draw, but he was 15 yards behind the line of scrimmage when the play started and he stayed there until the moment that Dak slid.

Then, and only then, did he start sprinting toward the line to spot the ball. I watched this with my own eyes. No matter what Dak did with the ball or who he handed it to, there was a snowball’s chance in inferno that his referee was going to get there in time. None.

So go ahead and blame Kellen Moore. And trust me, I’m not one to say the fix was in. But the game was a comedy of errors by the officials and that ball should have been spotted with enough time for one more play call.

Remember one more thing:

There were controversial outcomes in the games against both the Raiders and Cardinals. If Dallas wins one of those games, they were playing Philly yesterday. If they win both, they had a bye week.

I get it - play well enough that the outcome can’t come down to a play decided by the referees. OK. But we were robbed yesterday, pure and simple.

Flame away.

Nick Eastman mentioned it on The Break Monday. I saw a play online where the team was able to run a play get the ball set and spiked in 10 seconds. No reason why 14 seconds isn't enough time.

 

[boysbeyond4ever]

Dean Blandino and Mike Pereira both said the referee and the umpire should have been following the play rather than just standing back at the 15-yard spot once it commenced. And it's true how do you spot penalties better from there 10-15 yards down field. They should have been moving once they saw Dak moving forward. They also noted it wasn't the best call there but both agreed there should have been time on the clock These were like the NFL's chief rules guys Blandino I think was the one who defended the no catch overturn in Green Bay.

 

[Dak_Attack_09]

Yeah maybe. But we lost the game way before that

No we didn’t they cheated us out the win.

 

[boysbeyond4ever]

I get it, a die hard fan but your sniffing too much glue if you think we were robbed! To make that play go, it had to be run perfectly just in order to have a possible 2-3 seconds on the clock. “I’ll bet everything I have that Dak didn’t alert the Referee he was going on a QB draw and to stay in his hip pocket so he could set the ball quickly”. Then your asking for a one time throw into the End Zone for a TD! Even had we done all of that, they’d have been extremely lucky and not deserving of winning that game! We were out played, plain & simple!!

And so I guess you'd have boycotted watching any further playoff games or the Super Bowl had we been so "lucky" as you say, right? You think the orginal Hail Mary to Drew Pearson was all about pure skill and brilliance and superior quality? WE forget so easily. Luck is a factor in sports every single day every single game even if you don't notice it.

 

[Steve007]

I know there’s a zillion threads about this, but I haven’t seen this posted.

I was in section C312 and I had a perfect view of the final seconds. My friend, seated next to me, was recording those last sections on his cell phone.

Yeah, it probably wasn’t the best play call but what I can tell you is that there was plenty of time still on the clock when Dak slid. He didn’t do anything wrong with the ball. There’s one referee who is charged with placing it.

Now you can call this conspiratal, you can say that this particular referee was daydreaming or maybe he just never expected a QB draw, but he was 15 yards behind the line of scrimmage when the play started and he stayed there until the moment that Dak slid.

Then, and only then, did he start sprinting toward the line to spot the ball. I watched this with my own eyes. No matter what Dak did with the ball or who he handed it to, there was a snowball’s chance in inferno that his referee was going to get there in time. None.

So go ahead and blame Kellen Moore. And trust me, I’m not one to say the fix was in. But the game was a comedy of errors by the officials and that ball should have been spotted with enough time for one more play call.

Remember one more thing:

There were controversial outcomes in the games against both the Raiders and Cardinals. If Dallas wins one of those games, they were playing Philly yesterday. If they win both, they had a bye week.

I get it - play well enough that the outcome can’t come down to a play decided by the referees. OK. But we were robbed yesterday, pure and simple.

Flame away.

Stop blaming the refs. That was all on the cowboys. 1. horrible play call 2. Dak ran too far and ate up too much clock. 3. You hand the ball to the ref.
Romo even said when Dak finially slid they didn't have enough time.

 

[MarcusRock]

Dean Blandino and Mike Pereira both said the referee and the umpire should have been following the play rather than just standing back at the 15-yard spot once it commenced. And it's true how do you spot penalties better from there 10-15 yards down field. They should have been moving once they saw Dak moving forward. They also noted it wasn't the best call there but both agreed there should have been time on the clock These were like the NFL's chief rules guys Blandino I think was the one who defended the no catch overturn in Green Bay.

Oh, so NOW Blandino and Pereira are guys to reference as support. But when they defended the Dez no-catch in Green Bay, they were co-conspirators with the league.

"The refs! Oh lawd, the refs!"

Same as it ever was. Carry on.

 

[kskboys]

Dallas lost because the offense only scored 17 points. It is not that complicated.

X a few gadzillions.

 

[tyke1doe]

I know there’s a zillion threads about this, but I haven’t seen this posted.

I was in section C312 and I had a perfect view of the final seconds. My friend, seated next to me, was recording those last sections on his cell phone.

Yeah, it probably wasn’t the best play call but what I can tell you is that there was plenty of time still on the clock when Dak slid. He didn’t do anything wrong with the ball. There’s one referee who is charged with placing it.

Now you can call this conspiratal, you can say that this particular referee was daydreaming or maybe he just never expected a QB draw, but he was 15 yards behind the line of scrimmage when the play started and he stayed there until the moment that Dak slid.

Then, and only then, did he start sprinting toward the line to spot the ball. I watched this with my own eyes. No matter what Dak did with the ball or who he handed it to, there was a snowball’s chance in inferno that his referee was going to get there in time. None.

So go ahead and blame Kellen Moore. And trust me, I’m not one to say the fix was in. But the game was a comedy of errors by the officials and that ball should have been spotted with enough time for one more play call.

Remember one more thing:

There were controversial outcomes in the games against both the Raiders and Cardinals. If Dallas wins one of those games, they were playing Philly yesterday. If they win both, they had a bye week.

I get it - play well enough that the outcome can’t come down to a play decided by the referees. OK. But we were robbed yesterday, pure and simple.

Flame away.

I wouldn't use the term "robbed." But, the ref should have stayed with the play. That's part of the job, i.e., getting in position to make a call and being in position so you don't disrupt the game.

Still, I think the play call wasn't a good one. Schultz was alone near the sideline before the first wave of Niner defenders. A quick pass and Schultz getting out of bound accomplishes the same thing and with more time on the clock.

But ... spilled milk.

 

[kskboys]

Hiring younger guys isn't necessarily a remedy. You get to the pros working through the high school and college football ranks. In essence, it takes time to get to the pro level, which is why you don't see as many younger refs.

Youth can't replace experience, no matter how you try to force it. Pay doesn't replace experience either. You have to be on the field and work the game in order to develop experience. And TIME is a factor of experience.

As an aside, I have a friend who is a SEC ref. He started with high school football games. Took him about 5-7 years before he moved to the college level. He worked the "lower level" college games until he landed a spot with the SEC. He desires to be a NFL ref, but he has to put the years in.




First, that's not going to happen even if you pay referees.
Second, what do you expect to get from subjecting the refers to the press? A confession? No, you're not going to get that. And, really, that will only undermine the integrity of the game. The ideal is for the refs to be neutral. The more you subject them to public scrutiny, you INCREASE claims of bias, not reduce bias claims. Let people think what they want. You don't VALIDATE their opinions by feeding them. You want refs to be neutral so allegiances don't build among the fans. Furthermore, refs aren't supposed to be celebrities. Having them sit down and answer the press creates a forum to make refs more visible - too visible - to audiences just like athletes are. It sounds good, but I can see problems with this from jump street.
Third, mistakes happen. It's part of humanity. And, of course, if calls go against your team, you're more likely to feel that the refs cheated. But that's fandom, which is even more bias. You don't want to enhance that by making celebrities out of referees.
Fourth, again, the NFL has an internal review process. Refs who continually blow calls don't get to call certain games and if they're REALLY bad, they won't be refs for long. I think this is better because reffing is hard. You need to be one to fully understand. For six years, until I took a hiatus, was a community recreation league and high school league (private schools) baseball umpire. In no way am I on the level of a pro ref or umpire, but I understand how difficult it is from the inside. And I've noticed a few things:

1. Refs and umpires are trying to do the best they can.
2. Refs and umpires don't have time for bias. There have been kids and teams I know and like whose games I've had to call. When I'm trying to determine whether the catcher tags the runner coming home, I don't have time for bias. I'm trying to make the correct call.
3. Refs and umpires are under CONSTANT scrutiny from players, from coaches and from the public - all of whom think they know more than the referees and are ready to challenge them whenever a call goes against them. A lot of people can't take that type scrutiny. My wife often asks me why I do it because she cringes when I tell her some of the stories of how players, coaches and parents act towards umpires.
4. Refs and umpires have an inordinate amount of rules to learn. They have to know the game backwards and forwards, especially the higher up you go. Again, you learn by studying but you learn on-the-job. You learn how to deal with situations by going through those situations.


Answer how? What can be done with full-time refs that can't be done with part-time refs?
Second, you know what generally happens when people get punished for making mistakes? They make MORE mistakes. That's why the whole concept of positive reinforcement was developed.
If you tell someone, "Don't make this mistake again. Don't make this mistake again. Don't make this mistake again." Guess what's going to happen?
He's going to make the mistake AGAIN because you've reinforced "mistake" into his brain.
What corrects mistakes is TRAINING!.
If your offensive line continues to jump offsides, you don't keep saying, "Stop jumping offsides." Rather, you TRAIN them to move at the snap of the ball.
There's no better teacher than experience.
Now if by paying refs full-time, they get better training, then that's a good argument. But they're still going to have to apply that training to a real game. But that would apply to both part-time and full-time refs.

NO disagrees that the refs are doing the best they can.

 

[tyke1doe]

NO disagrees that the refs are doing the best they can.

Are you saying no disagreement that the refs are doing the best they can or are you saying no one disagrees that the refs are doing the best they can?
If the latter, then I would beg to differ.

When posters use terms like "fixed,' "bias," "the refs hate the Cowboys," or similar phrases, it suggests that the refs AREN'T doing the best they can and are INTENTIONALLY making calls against the Cowboys.

You aren't doing the best you can if you're purposely cheating.