Umpire was out of position

[BKBDAD]

I know there’s a zillion threads about this, but I haven’t seen this posted.

I was in section C312 and I had a perfect view of the final seconds. My friend, seated next to me, was recording those last sections on his cell phone.

Yeah, it probably wasn’t the best play call but what I can tell you is that there was plenty of time still on the clock when Dak slid. He didn’t do anything wrong with the ball. There’s one referee who is charged with placing it.

Now you can call this conspiratal, you can say that this particular referee was daydreaming or maybe he just never expected a QB draw, but he was 15 yards behind the line of scrimmage when the play started and he stayed there until the moment that Dak slid.

Then, and only then, did he start sprinting toward the line to spot the ball. I watched this with my own eyes. No matter what Dak did with the ball or who he handed it to, there was a snowball’s chance in inferno that his referee was going to get there in time. None.

So go ahead and blame Kellen Moore. And trust me, I’m not one to say the fix was in. But the game was a comedy of errors by the officials and that ball should have been spotted with enough time for one more play call.

Remember one more thing:

There were controversial outcomes in the games against both the Raiders and Cardinals. If Dallas wins one of those games, they were playing Philly yesterday. If they win both, they had a bye week.

I get it - play well enough that the outcome can’t come down to a play decided by the referees. OK. But we were robbed yesterday, pure and simple.

Flame away.

 

[khiladi]

Perfect.

You gave up the ghost.

What do you think a ref is doing when he adjusts the spot of the ball, smh? Thanks for quoting me because it’s 100% accurate.

1. Biadasz located the spot of the ball incorrectly
2. I showed photo evidence of that; you have since tried to pivot and demur
3. The ref adjusted the spot of the ball accordingly which you just now, pushed in a corner, are acknowledging is correct
4. The action of the ref having to relocate the ball caused the clock to expire

You then re-entered with this post:

The Rams/Cowboys example does not somehow imply a player can spot the ball. That’s complete madness to think that’s somehow the center’s responsibility. What, is everyone operating on the honor system, lol?

The center can put the ball wherever he wants and the ref is only required to touch it to acknowledge the spot. That’s if he agrees where the ball is spotted in the first place. If he doesn’t, he will move it accordingly.

The ref in the Rams game clearly blew it because where the ball should have been spotted was missed.

What’s basically being argued is “ahhh, the ref shouldn’t have re-spotted the ball because where Biadasz put it was close enough (even though it wasn’t).”

The ref in yesterday’s game was correct in trying to re-spot the ball. The photo sequence I provided proved that. Even when he did re-spot the ball it was as well off where it should have been.

1. You said the ref in the Rams/Cowboys game completely blew it, without evidence.

2. you said the re-Spot of the ball was as well off as it should have been, which is wrong. Because the actual photo shows that the first spot by the ref was closer to Dak then the second spot.

So in reality, you were wrong when you corrected my original statement about the ref returning the ball to where Biadasz spotted it, while making a completely incorrect statement that it was where it should have been.

 

[khiladi]

It is then that I responded with the post:

You just engaging in a bunch of assumptions that have no evidence at all.

The Rams game, there is zero evidence anywhere from you to argue he ref blew it.. Zero evidence.. You just cast it aside by claiming he blew it, though in reality it clearly demonstrates precedence. The term “Complete madness” isn’t evidence..

Romo in fact said multiple times the ref simply had to touch it during the video.

THE REF COULDN’T IN ANY WAY DETERMINE IN ACCURATE SPOT CONSIDERING WHERE HE WAS, meaning the most obvious assumption is he has no clue what he was doing and just guessing. In fact, the last spot of the ref is actually farther away from the original spot from where Dak slid in relation to where Biadasz originally put the ball

notice I’m not one instance, am I arguing the ref can’t spot a ball. What I am saying is the ref botched the whole thing as is amply demonstrated by his actions on the field. You on the other hand was claiming he had Superman x Ray vision from 25 yards out.

The only mostake I made is that I said the last spot by the ref was FARTHER than where Biadasz originally put it. That was a SECONDARY point and even that error doesn’t change the original premise, which is the ref had no clue where he was doing, because the SECOND placement of the ball was FARTHER from where Dak slid, from the FIRST adjustment by the ref, meaning the final placement was actually more inaccurate.

In either case, the premise is not the actual distance, it’s the ref had no clue what he was doing.

 

[BKBDAD]

I basically said the ref screwed the Cowboys by shuffling the ball and the ref ended up placing the ball where Biadasz originally put it. That point was completely irrelevant other than it was meant to demonstrate how the ref wasted the time off the clock.

You then wrote a thesis as quoted above telling us the exact measurements as done by a ref basically 25 yards away to refute the point that the ref placed the ball back to the exact same spot Biadasz placed it originally. In fact, you added that the ref gave the Cowboys a favorable spot in the end but then you said the ref spotted it at the 24 in the end because the Center hit him.

In reality, you are wrong in both statements.

1. The spot wasn’t favorable, because it burned time off the clock.
2. The spot wasn’t favorable, because the original spot by the ref was closer to Dak being down than the last spot.
3. Then you claimed Biadasz hit the ref forcing the last spot, which never happened.

And I then responded



the whole contention was that the spot to that degree was meaningless in this context, because the main issue was getting the snap off, which you even said out the other side of your mouth through the words “EXPEDITE” the play.

 

[kskboys]

I get it, a die hard fan but your sniffing too much glue if you think we were robbed! To make that play go, it had to be run perfectly just in order to have a possible 2-3 seconds on the clock. “I’ll bet everything I have that Dak didn’t alert the Referee he was going on a QB draw and to stay in his hip pocket so he could set the ball quickly”. Then your asking for a one time throw into the End Zone for a TD! Even had we done all of that, they’d have been extremely lucky and not deserving of winning that game! We were out played, plain & simple!!

The last play was merely a symptom of a much much bigger disease.

 

[BKBDAD]

I know there’s a zillion threads about this, but I haven’t seen this posted.

I was in section C312 and I had a perfect view of the final seconds. My friend, seated next to me, was recording those last sections on his cell phone.

Yeah, it probably wasn’t the best play call but what I can tell you is that there was plenty of time still on the clock when Dak slid. He didn’t do anything wrong with the ball. There’s one referee who is charged with placing it.

Now you can call this conspiratal, you can say that this particular referee was daydreaming or maybe he just never expected a QB draw, but he was 15 yards behind the line of scrimmage when the play started and he stayed there until the moment that Dak slid.

Then, and only then, did he start sprinting toward the line to spot the ball. I watched this with my own eyes. No matter what Dak did with the ball or who he handed it to, there was a snowball’s chance in inferno that his referee was going to get there in time. None.

So go ahead and blame Kellen Moore. And trust me, I’m not one to say the fix was in. But the game was a comedy of errors by the officials and that ball should have been spotted with enough time for one more play call.

Remember one more thing:

There were controversial outcomes in the games against both the Raiders and Cardinals. If Dallas wins one of those games, they were playing Philly yesterday. If they win both, they had a bye week.

I get it - play well enough that the outcome can’t come down to a play decided by the referees. OK. But we were robbed yesterday, pure and simple.

Flame away.

I know there’s a zillion threads about this, but I haven’t seen this posted.

I was in section C312 and I had a perfect view of the final seconds. My friend, seated next to me, was recording those last sections on his cell phone.

Yeah, it probably wasn’t the best play call but what I can tell you is that there was plenty of time still on the clock when Dak slid. He didn’t do anything wrong with the ball. There’s one referee who is charged with placing it.

Now you can call this conspiratal, you can say that this particular referee was daydreaming or maybe he just never expected a QB draw, but he was 15 yards behind the line of scrimmage when the play started and he stayed there until the moment that Dak slid.

Then, and only then, did he start sprinting toward the line to spot the ball. I watched this with my own eyes. No matter what Dak did with the ball or who he handed it to, there was a snowball’s chance in inferno that his referee was going to get there in time. None.

So go ahead and blame Kellen Moore. And trust me, I’m not one to say the fix was in. But the game was a comedy of errors by the officials and that ball should have been spotted with enough time for one more play call.

Remember one more thing:

There were controversial outcomes in the games against both the Raiders and Cardinals. If Dallas wins one of those games, they were playing Philly yesterday. If they win both, they had a bye week.

I get it - play well enough that the outcome can’t come down to a play decided by the referees. OK. But we were robbed yesterday, pure and simple.

Flame away.

I get it, a die hard fan but your sniffing too much glue if you think we were robbed! To make that play go, it had to be run perfectly just in order to have a possible 2-3 seconds on the clock. “I’ll bet everything I have that Dak didn’t alert the Referee he was going on a QB draw and to stay in his hip pocket so he could set the ball quickly”. Then your asking for a one time throw into the End Zone for a TD! Even had we done all of that, they’d have been extremely lucky and not deserving of winning that game! We were out played, plain & simple!!

 

[khiladi]

You then said the following drivel:

Luuuuuulz, says the guy whose entire argument hinges on the assumption “how did the ref even know where to spot it?” The hypocrisy is too rich, lol.

Secondly, there is zero evidence re: the Rams example???

Lol, what are you talking about? The freakin’ gif is on the first post of DOUBLE WING’s thread.

To think the center is responsible for officially spotting the ball is complete buffoonery.

Even you acknowledge that my argument is not about the ref had the right yo spot the ball, but:

Luuuuuulz, says the guy whose entire argument hinges on the assumption “how did the ref even know where to spot it?” The hypocrisy is too rich, lol.

 

[khiladi]

And then I responded to that drivel, by quoting once again the multiple evidence that demonstrate the ref had botched the play and couldn’t have accurately gaged the distance to the degree he would burn the time completely off:

1. Actual GIF, meaning precedence
2. Basic biology about vision and distance as well as not being able to see through human bodies
3. The ref about 25 yards away from the actual play, completely oblivious to what his job is, which is follow the play, to the point he comes in like a wrecking ball into Dak and the Center
4. Romo saying the ref is just suppose to touch the ball.

All you got is “complete madness”, which ironically hinges on the notion THAT ref made a mistake, while you normally rabidly defend refs as being pretty much infallible and holy,

But lo and behold, the ref in this game can’t be the one who made a mistake, because “complete madness” beats basic biology about Vision and other expert opinions, like that of Romo, who was an actual QB in the NFL.

Keep digging yourself in..

 

[khiladi]

Perfect.

You gave up the ghost.

What do you think a ref is doing when he adjusts the spot of the ball, smh? Thanks for quoting me because it’s 100% accurate.

1. Biadasz located the spot of the ball incorrectly
2. I showed photo evidence of that; you have since tried to pivot and demur
3. The ref adjusted the spot of the ball accordingly which you just now, pushed in a corner, are acknowledging is correct
4. The action of the ref having to relocate the ball caused the clock to expire

What you’re really wanting to argue is that the ref should just have trusted Biadasz’ spot (which was shown to be wrong) and he should have just “touched the ball” in reference to what Romo said out of context. You even laughably point to the Rams example as proof the ref is only supposed to touch the ball as if he’s not allowed to adjust it if necessary.

So to summarize:

1. The referee was in no position to judge the spot.
2. You showed photo evidence that only demonstrated that the refs final spot was not the same as Biadasz original spot which has nothing to do with the TIME FACTOR, which was my original point.
3. The ref shuffled his spots, which nobody ever denied, and your original response to me was not even challenging this point, it was challenging the exact final placement of the ref in relation to Biadasz, which I only stated to demonstrate the point the refs incompetent actions burned out the clock.
So you claiming I was pushed in a corner and forced to admit the ref changed spots ie not only downright comical, it’s completely wrong as even your first post to me acknowledges via your attempted ‘refutation’ which was nothing but a thesis on determine what the exact position of the final spot by the ref was.
4. Further, you claimed the ref gave the Cowboys a favorable spot to ‘expedite the play’ which is completely wrong, because the time expired on the final spot, meaning he actually wasted time. You were doing this to try and create the impression that the ref was in complete control and not blowing it, completely rushed. This idea of ‘expediting’ contradicts point 4 of yours, meaning you are all over the place, and your point 4 is what I said from the very beginning is what happened and maintained all throughout, unlike you.

Now that we’ve gotten that out of the way, we can go back to the real point, which is the referee completely botched the play.

 

[black label]

stripes bra

 

[khiladi]

I get it, a die hard fan but your sniffing too much glue if you think we were robbed! To make that play go, it had to be run perfectly just in order to have a possible 2-3 seconds on the clock. “I’ll bet everything I have that Dak didn’t alert the Referee he was going on a QB draw and to stay in his hip pocket so he could set the ball quickly”. Then your asking for a one time throw into the End Zone for a TD! Even had we done all of that, they’d have been extremely lucky and not deserving of winning that game! We were out played, plain & simple!!

So was Tyree’s catch in the 2007 SB after Manning’s lucky escape from a sure sack and the sure fire INT drop by Asante Samuel that Eli through right to him… The Giants are still SB champions, despite ‘luck’.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

You then re-entered with this post:



1. You said the ref in the Rams/Cowboys game completely blew it, without evidence.

2. you said the re-Spot of the ball was as well off as it should have been, which is wrong. Because the actual photo shows that the first spot by the ref was closer to Dak then the second spot.

So in reality, you were wrong when you corrected my original statement about the ref returning the ball to where Biadasz spotted it, while making a completely incorrect statement that it was where it should have been.

Must be awesome to respond to posts and recap the conversation, twisting it to fit your narrative.

1. Where the ball was spotted by the Rams player and where it actually should have been spotted is indisputable. The GIF clearly showed that. I can’t help you with that. The ref “blew it” by not re-spotting it where the receiver actually went down. Are you claiming the receiver got to the 45-yard line?

2. Smh, yeah, that’s completely bunk. I never said “the first spot by the ref was closer to Dak then the second.” Use actual quotes instead of being a manipulative simpleton.

3. “So in reality, you were wrong when you corrected my original statement about the ref returning the ball to where Biadasz spotted it, while making a completely incorrect statement that it was where it should have been.”

Lol, what are you blathering about? Use the actual quotes instead of cheap forum debate tricks trying to bogusly summarize what I said.

 

[khiladi]

Must be awesome to respond to posts and recap the conversation, twisting it to fit your narrative.

1. Where the ball was spotted by the Rams player and where it actually should have been spotted is indisputable. The GIF clearly showed that. I can’t help you with that. The ref “blew it” by not re-spotting it where the receiver actually went down. Are you claiming the receiver got to the 45-yard line?


Lol, what are you blathering about? Use the actual quotes instead of cheap forum debate tricks trying to bogusly summarize what I said.

You are the guy that tried to refute me, while you are demanding I am supposed to use actual quote to ‘refute your position’. That’s not how it works buddy.

You see I wasn’t even talking to you at this point, when you entered into the conversation again.

1.

2. Again, it actually happens all the time, where a player places the ball on the ground, the offense and defense line up and the ref touches the ball to allow the snapping of the ball, meaning there is precedence within the league where players ‘spot the ball’ and the ref just comes and touches it. As @DOUBLE WING clearly demonstrates in another post with the following GIF:

The ref accepts the spot of the WR and simply touches the ball to begin the snap.

You see, nowhere am I making any contention about the exact precision of wear the ball accurately it is. The point here is to establish PRECEDENCE of the referee touching the ball. This directly addressed somebody else’s point.

Then just like you thought you tried to make yourself look smart, by writing a full blown thesis on how my secondary statement that the ref placed the ball back to where originally placed it Biadasz to demonstrate the ref had no clue what he was doing, was wrong, because the actual positioning of the final small was 2.876542 inches from where our C placed it, you did the same thing here with a totally irrelevant quote while I was addressing somebody else that the ref simply has to touch the ball:

The Rams/Cowboys example does not somehow imply a player can spot the ball. That’s complete madness to think that’s somehow the center’s responsibility. What, is everyone operating on the honor system, lol?

The center can put the ball wherever he wants and the ref is only required to touch it to acknowledge the spot. That’s if he agrees where the ball is spotted in the first place. If he doesn’t, he will move it accordingly.

The ref in the Rams game clearly blew it because where the ball should have been spotted was missed.

What’s basically being argued is “ahhh, the ref shouldn’t have re-spotted the ball because where Biadasz put it was close enough (even though it wasn’t).”

The ref in yesterday’s game was correct in trying to re-spot the ball. The photo sequence I provided proved that. Even when he did re-spot the ball it was as well off where it should have been.

So you basically completely committed exaggeration to try and argue against a point I wasn’t even making. And this exaggeration is in fact a completely bogus argument as far as situational football is concerned, because the PRIMARY ISSUE here in the Rajs-Cowboys game is the TIME FACTOR, not where or not the spot is a millimeter or too off, those inches having really microscopic or zero impact on this play, JUST LIKE the Cowboys-49ers game.

2. What is further comical, like I said, is your holier then thou attitude with respect to referees, but as far as the GIF that completely disproves your stance stance shows, the “ref is wrong” suddenly. What ever happened to the ref being able to spot the ball? Where does the rule say he has to pick it up to spot the ball?

“Oh, but since it’s 5 centimeters off here, the ref is wrong”, which once again prop brings me to this for about the thousand time:

3. Now look where the ref tries to re-spot the ball (still favorably to the Cowboys) at about the 24.5-yard line. The ball really should have been spotted at around the 26-yard line.

Hypocrite much? So why is it wrong in the Rams game and not the 49ers game? No need to answer with irrelevant tangents to this rhetorical question.

So ironic is this quote, that you tried justifying the WRONG spot by arguing it was favorable to the Cowboys, but in reality it wasn’t, because even you said, like I did in my second post in this whole thread that corrected by original position, the refs actions caused the time to burn out. In fact, the first spot was more favorable to the Cowboys from time, it was the MORE ACCURATE spot.

2. Smh, yeah, that’s completely bunk. I never said “the first spot by the ref was closer to Dak then the second.” Use actual quotes instead of being a manipulative simpleton.

3. “So in reality, you were wrong when you corrected my original statement about the ref returning the ball to where Biadasz spotted it, while making a completely incorrect statement that it was where it should have been.”

 

[CxC1993]

Shouldn't have come down to that.

 

[csirl]

Umpire watches the OL and stays close to LOS - not supposed to follow Dak. He also doesnt have forward progress so he needs one of the other officials to determine the spot before the play starts.

 

[G2]

It's funny, many fans have an all or nothing view on things. When in reality, there are many pieces. Instead of an agenda driven narrative, look at the whole picture.
For example:
1) - Any coach responsible for managing the clock, calling plays and inserting these playground plays in a playoff game need to be fired. The talent is here, put them in position to win, not try and outfox good teams.
2) - The players on the field did not execute throughout the entire game. If your name isn't Danger, Schultz or LVE you sucked and it's also your fault for getting beat in your matchups.
3) - The refs are awful and have been inconsistent all season long. There's no specific conspiracy against Dallas, the just suck across the board. They have too many situations to be judging, they have too many calls to manage, they miss penalties, they call ones that weren't, they can't keep pace with the speed of the game or players, one crew is VASTLY different from another, so on and so on.
All are true, all happened and that's why we're not worthy of going to the next level.

 

[DCBoysfan]

Dallas lost because the offense only scored 17 points. It is not that complicated.

 

[khiladi]

Lol, what are you blathering about? Use the actual quotes instead of cheap forum debate tricks trying to bogusly summarize what I said.

So basically to summarize your hypocritical standards.

1. If we go by your standards of the Cowboys-Rams game, the ref was wrong in the Cowboys-49ers game, because he provided a ‘favorable’ spot for the Cowboys, not an accurate spot. According to your own words, he should have spotted it in the 26, not the 24.5. But again, that’s not favorable, because like you said, the refs actions caused the time to burn out and the actual first position of the ball placement by the ref is closer and more accurate to where the ball was when Dak slid.

2. If we go go by your standards in the Cowboys-49ers game, the ref was right in the Cowboys-Rams game, because, per your own words “the ref has the right to spot the ball”, even if it’s ‘favorable’. As a reminder, of course you said this as regards the Cowboys-49ers game to make it seem like the ref was calm and collected and full control of his decision-making process and wasn’t just shooting from the hip, because he was trailing the play by like 25 yards and coming in like a wrecking ball into Dak and the Center.

Oh man, which position are you going to pick. Which ref completely botched the game? Was it the ref in the Cowboys-Rams game whose judgment call was that time is a priority and an inch or two in ball placement has no bearing on the last play as far as the issue of scoring is concerned or was it the ref who came in like a wrecking ball, crashing into Dak and the Center completely out of control, because he was coming in like Usain Bolt because he wasn’t doing his job in the first place, trailing the play by 25 yards and then fumbling the ball positioning, with the ball ending up at a position that was actually more inaccurate than his (the ref’s) original spot and arguably the spot in the Rams-Cowboys game, completely burning off the time in the clock, unlike the ref in the Rams-Cowboys game…

Complete and utter ownage…

 

[DogFace]

Refs ARE held accountable. You get enough bad grades, you don't get to ref certain games.
What is going to be the accountability difference between part-time and full-time refs?

For one full time refs are actually trying to build a career and they depend on that career. Not just some side gig because they think it’s fun. No more guys in their 50’s and 60’s either. Younger guys that want a career in the profession.

Second have them answer questions from the press about bad calls. Make them explain how they missed a guy taking his helmet off 3 ft from them or why they can’t keep up with the play clock or spot a ball with a few crucial seconds left.

If they know they will have to answer for ridiculously bad “mistakes” then I think they’d stop or at least lesson them.

 

[DogFace]

Dallas lost because the offense only scored 17 points. It is not that complicated.

There are many reasons why we lost. That’s one of the functions of this board. To discuss all of the good and bad things that were a factor in the game.

It’s not complicated at all.