Universal Basic Income?

[rags747]

People become productive members of society by working not receiving UBI to sit home and do nothing. People always need to be reaching for that golden ring to feel good about themselves. People will become sloths, we already have many examples of this where people receive $$ and do nothing productive for society or themselves.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Automation would / could alleviate this burden. Hence why I said in response to a post about automation needing to stop was incorrect. There are other jobs that could be done especially with advancement of technology.

It's like Blockbuster. They failed to innovate and then fell on hard times, when if they would have just moved with the times. They would have been in a better situation.


You're basing that on money, but if you get rid of money. People will improve themselves and therefore those around them. That is the entire idea behind a Utopian Society.

This is not like Blockbuster. Blockbuster is an example of bad management. That is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about replacing people and reducing them to menial subsistence.

If I'm not mistaken, this thread is about getting paid. It's not about liberal views. If we are talking about liberal views, I think you know where this thread is headed.

 

[Quickdraw]

Other species don't get vacations and security and can't ride to the Supermarket or McDonalds when hungry

We have more than enough leisure time

No one works before 18 or after 65 more or less and 40 hours a week still leaves 128 hours a week for rest and relaxation

Not so depressing imo

There are 2 things I'd like to address.

1.) Why would you need a vacation if you didn't have to work? I'm not talking not working and getting handouts from social programs. I'm talking about surviving without working like we know work to be. Plus, there wouldn't be a McDonalds or Supermarket. That conforms to how world is now.

2.) I started working at ag 14. There are many kids that work before the age of 18. Most Supermarkets and fast food restaurants hire many kids under 18 as well. Now the age of retirement to collect Social Security is for many, 67 or 68. Soon it'll be 70. That's a lot of years doing something for someone else.

2b.) Even if a person worked 40 hours, which I know many don't, they spend at least 7 hours sleeping. So if they spend 7 hours sleeping, that means from 128 hours, they only have 79 hours to themselves. Then you have to subtract time getting ready for work, and the drive time, and the drive time back home. It becomes a lot les than 79 hours of "free" time.

So yea, it is a bit depressing.

 

[YosemiteSam]

This is not like Blockbuster. Blockbuster is an example of bad management. That is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about replacing people and reducing them to menial subsistence.

If I'm not mistaken, this thread is about getting paid. It's not about liberal views. If we are talking about liberal views, I think you know where this thread is headed.

What? Where did that come from? You believe automation is a liberal view?

Universal Incoming would be a liberal view and I've already made it clear earlier in this thread that I am hell bend against that. Giving anything away for free (I mean really free) is stupid.

Blockbuster (and Toys R Us) killed themselves by keeping the status quo rather than driving their companies forward as the times changed. (as technology dictated) There is nothing liberal about that. Hell, that is more conservative view so I don't know where you get throwing at me that I'm pitching liberal views.

I pitch Utopian Society which both gets rid of capitalism and removes giving things away freely to bums. You work, or you starve.

 

[Cowpolk]

You get assigned a job duty / training based on your attributes. You do the job assigned to you or you are booted from society.

I will qualify as a beer drinking couch potato

 

[YosemiteSam]

I will qualify as a beer drinking couch potato

I qualify as a wine drinker, winemaker, astronomer, astrophotographer, ham radio operator, electronics tinkerer, Python programmer, and part-timer guitarist. I should be able to at least have bread and water. Maybe a cracker if bread is too much.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

What? Where did that come from? You believe automation is a liberal view?

Universal Incoming would be a liberal view and I've already made it clear earlier in this thread that I am hell bend against that. Giving anything away for free (I mean really free) is stupid.

Blockbuster (and Toys R Us) killed themselves by keeping the status quo rather than driving their companies forward as the times changed. (as technology dictated) There is nothing liberal about that. Hell, that is more conservative view so I don't know where you get throwing at me that I'm pitching liberal views.

I pitch Utopian Society which both gets rid of capitalism and removes giving things away freely to bums. You work, or you starve.

This entire discussion is on the verge of political Sam and you know it.

 

[YosemiteSam]

This entire discussion is on the verge of political Sam and you know it.

I thought the same thing the second I saw the thread title. Though I felt thus far the thread had been pretty tame. I'm feeling a bit sparky today, but I will step back so I don't have to keep you on your heels.

 

[Nightman]

There are 2 things I'd like to address.

1.) Why would you need a vacation if you didn't have to work? I'm not talking not working and getting handouts from social programs. I'm talking about surviving without working like we know work to be. Plus, there wouldn't be a McDonalds or Supermarket. That conforms to how world is now.

2.) I started working at ag 14. There are many kids that work before the age of 18. Most Supermarkets and fast food restaurants hire many kids under 18 as well. Now the age of retirement to collect Social Security is for many, 67 or 68. Soon it'll be 70. That's a lot of years doing something for someone else.

2b.) Even if a person worked 40 hours, which I know many don't, they spend at least 7 hours sleeping. So if they spend 7 hours sleeping, that means from 128 hours, they only have 79 hours to themselves. Then you have to subtract time getting ready for work, and the drive time, and the drive time back home. It becomes a lot les than 79 hours of "free" time.

So yea, it is a bit depressing.

I think you are picking nits

Other species spend 99% hunting or procuring food and looking for safety from predators and climate dangers......that is work by any definition

They don't get to take vacations from hunting or keeping their offspring safe.....it is 24/7 365

As to the hours I said 'rest and relaxation' that includes sleep and travel

You say depressing and I say evolved..... we get to chose the time, place and length of our employment...... no one else can say that

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I thought the same thing the second I saw the thread title. Though I felt thus far the thread had been pretty tame. I'm feeling a bit sparky today, but I will step back so I don't have to keep you on your heels.

Well, that's why I have done nothing. I don't want this thing to go south but it almost surely will, especially if we start introducing certain topics. It's a matter of time but hey, maybe it will surprise me!

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think you are picking nits

Other species spend 99% hunting or procuring food and looking for safety from predators and climate dangers......that is work by any definition

They don't get to take vacations from hunting or keeping their offspring safe.....it is 24/7 365

As to the hours I said 'rest and relaxation' that includes sleep and travel

You say depressing and I say evolved..... we get to chose the time, place and length of our employment...... no one else can say that

Correct. Other species often eat there own young. LOL.... This is too funny.

 

[Trouty]

I will qualify as a beer drinking couch potato

Hear hear!

 

[YosemiteSam]

Hear hear!

Hey hey! There is my beer drinkin' breath stinkin' sniffin' glue buddy!

 

[YosemiteSam]

Correct. Other species often eat there own young. LOL.... This is too funny.

Female mantises and spiders each their mates. The only one hunting (for a mate) is the one going to get eaten rofl.

 

[Hardline]

Are you willing to kill me to enact this socialist agenda?

 

[YosemiteSam]

Just the kill part, we can skip the rest.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Are you willing to kill me to enact this socialist agenda?

Lol, a little dramatic. However, we do know that capitalist are willing to kill to keep their system afloat.

 

[Hardline]

Lol, a little dramatic. However, we do know that capitalist are willing to kill to keep their system afloat.

Capitalism has pulled more people out of poverty than any other system in the world.
Socialism puts everyone in the rice fields equally.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The main issue is overpopulation. We need a culling.

You mean like a "purge?"

 

[Denim Chicken]

We need to do something to prepare for a post labor society. Automation is going to replace jobs in mass and without a viable mechanism to deal with it they'll be societal change one way or the other.