UNOFFICIAL: 12/1 PC Thread

[Hoov]

soinds liks a lot of annoying stupid questions in PC today, no wonder Bill was testy.

 

[Richmond Cowboy]

Can we cut/paste the little spat going on here into a private thread?

 

[stiletto]

Hey, I don't often feel called on to defend Parcells, I figure the guy can take care of himself... and I've been right pissed at him my own self on occasion...

But to criticize the guy because he pushes his players to get back on the field just as soon as is humanly possible?? That's just ignernt...

It's a coach's JOB to make sure he fields his best team possible, and that means pushing injured players to rehab as quickly as they can... I guess Chicken Little would prefer to allow the Cowboys to be a team of goldbricks and malingerers...

Me, I like that the players are afraid to miss time... those guys are making some MAJOR money, they should be willing to put their bodies on the line... if they're not, well, maybe they can join Jacob Rogers over on the "asthma field"...

Look, I actually agree with you for the most part but Anthony Henry is our defense's most valuable player. Why rush him back for Detroit?? Is that really a smart move? Denver okay...but not freakin' Detroit come on...

 

[silverbear]

Ok since you have done nothing but trash me since you started posting on this thread, am I to assume you are the King Homer around here??

A man's actions have consequences, son... if you come in here spewin' stupid trash, you're liable to find yourself getting trashed... if you dismiss anybody who disagrees with you by declaring them a "homer", then you're going to find yourself getting trashed...

nice to meet you I suppose..

Wish I could say the same...

tell me what did you think of the job Parcells did here the first two years? Do you think it was of HOF level that his reputation preceeded?

I think it's asinine for you to expect ANY coach to turn around a train wreck like the Cowboys were when Parcells came in here in two short years... I think that Jimmy Johnson took a couple-three years to build his winner, and that any KNOWLEDGEABLE football fan should be able to recognize that rebuilding a team that flawed doesn't happen overnight...

Do you think it was dumb not to play Henson or Romo at the end of last season when we were far out of the playoff race?

Yeah, I had a problem with that... I also had a problem with Jimmuh creating a quarterback controversy with Aikman/Walsh... ALL coaches make SOME questionable decisions, the measure is if the questionable decisions are outweighed by sound ones... I think that has been the case with Parcells, and I think that not only is this team better now than it was when he took over (far better, actually), I think that it's being built in such a way as to be competitive at the highest level for the next few years...

So all in all, I focus on the positive, while you seem to prefer to get down in the mud and wail and moan...

i think parcells has done an EXCELLENT job this year minus his 1980's offensive philosophy for the record...

And yet, you've been criticizing him loudly and longly in this thread for his handling of injured players... you talk about having no respect for "homers", but I have no respect for fans like you who talk out of both sides of their mouth...

 

[Hoov]

Ding Ding.....Round 2

 

[Dave_in-NC]

Wow, you judge someone by the # of posts they have??? LOL That's pretty weak brother...

Wow I have seen posters on this forum with 10,000 posts who make zero sense. I can only agree.

 

[stiletto]

Ding Ding.....Round 2

Sounds like BP is mad at the trainers more than the player... that's interesting.

 

[trickblue]

Wow I have seen posters on this forum with 10,000 posts who make zero sense. I can only agree.

Flattery will get you nowhere pal!

 

[silverbear]

Ok..so your point is what? How many did we have on IR the previous two years?? How much difference? don't act like you are a know it all without backing it up please....

I don't have to back my claims up with numbers, I know what I see on the field... instead of a team full of guys that seem to feel no urgency to get back on the field when hurt, we now have a team full of guys that seem SCARED of missing time...

Which is precisely the rep that Parcells carried with him when he came here, which in turn was a big part of the reason he was hired in the first place...

But of course, it's not all the psychological atmosphere that Parcells has created at work here, he has also made an effort to find his kind of "tough" players... not only do "tough" players fight tooth and nail to get back on the field, they tend to hang tough when the game's on the line... it's all part of getting rid of the loser mentality that has flourished at Valley Ranch for far too many years...

Tough players make for tough teams... that's true in all sports... but perhaps you shouldn't go by me, I only played the second half of a basketball game with a broken bone in my foot... I was diagnosed at halftime, made the trainer tape me and put my shoe back on, then went out and played better than I had in the first half...

Putting that shoe back on probably hurt more than running up and down that court... for a while, I thought I'd dodged a bullet, but I got that foot stepped on climbing on the school bus the next morning, and had a cast by lunchtime...

Or maybe I could tell you about the time I broke my ankle in practice, wore a cast for 2 weeks then cut it off so that I could get back to practice... that one was ALL on me, the coach had nothing to do with it... and I re-broke the ankle about 15 minutes into the first practice after coming back, LOL...

The point is, a COMPETITOR pushes himself to get back to competing... it might not always be the smartest thing he can do, but if you get yourself a team full of competitors like that, you greatly increase your chances of winning...

That's all Parcells is doing with his relentless pushing of injured players, creating a tough mindset... this is a GOOD thing, not something deserving of your dilettante criticisms...

 

[Alexander]

Can we cut/paste the little spat going on here into a private thread?

Seriously.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

And your BS sniping at Parcells isn't??

Apparently, a lot of folks in here find YOU annoying too... count me among them...

Your mouth and your 'tude would be far more impressive if you'd demonstrated some solid football knowledge first... but rippin' on a coach because he's created a climate where players are afraid to spend too much time hangin' out in the trainer's room is just STUPID...

Yes, sometimes a player risks reinjuring himself when he hurries back that way, but sometimes a player gets back out on the field weeks earlier than he might have had the head coach not been breathin' down his neck...

A coach like Parcells can do more harm than good at times when he pushes an injured player too hard. There is a distinct difference between "hurt" and "injured" and I don't think Parcells draws that distinction very well.

I can cite several examples where Parcells' "hard nose" approach has cost his team. Julius Jones stayed in a game for several plays once when injured because he feared Parcells labeling him "soft". (It was pretty obvious re-watching the game which play the injury actually happened). There are also several examples from his days with the Giants and Patriots (I can't think of any Jets' examples, but I missed a lot of football games during his tenure there)

Bringing Henry back on a limited basis for the Detroit game was a mistake. If he was healthy enough to play, he should have started, if he wasn't, he should have had the time off.

 

[stiletto]

Ok - but is there a point where a semi-injured player would hurt your team as opposed to a back-up. I agree that it's good Parcells pushes guys to not milk injuries but when you start pushing your STARS and you get them hurt worse you only hurt your team in the long run. IMO..

 

[silverbear]

Look, I actually agree with you for the most part but Anthony Henry is our defense's most valuable player. Why rush him back for Detroit?? Is that really a smart move? Denver okay...but not freakin' Detroit come on...

OK, I can meet you halfway, now that you've come down off your high horse and offered a somewhat more reasonable take on the whole situation...

Yeah, it might have been wiser to hold Henry out a bit longer... there is a flip side to that coin, though, groins are tricky injuries to figure out... it may well be that Henry was feeling good at that point, good enough that he convinced the coaches and the trainers he was well on the mend, then re-hurt himself in that game...

In that situation, erring on the side of caution might have been more like being timid... players get hurt playing football, and you can't play the game in fear of that truth...

 

[silverbear]

Sounds like BP is mad at the trainers more than the player... that's interesting.

Actually, it sounded more to me like he was gettin' ticked at the questions... seems like all they wanted to talk about was injuries... I noted that he went on at some length to one question that had nothing to do with injuries, something about comparing how he approaches the game in September as opposed to December...

And as for his comments on Henry, I read them as the coach using a little psychological motivation on his player, tryin' to get in his head... rather like Jimmy Johnson and his asthma field...

 

[stiletto]

OK, I can meet you halfway, now that you've come down off your high horse and offered a somewhat more reasonable take on the whole situation...

Yeah, it might have been wiser to hold Henry out a bit longer... there is a flip side to that coin, though, groins are tricky injuries to figure out... it may well be that Henry was feeling good at that point, good enough that he convinced the coaches and the trainers he was well on the mend, then re-hurt himself in that game...

In that situation, erring on the side of caution might have been more like being timid... players get hurt playing football, and you can't play the game in fear of that truth...

You're right, we don't exactly know the inner happenings but I guess I am an "err on the side of caution" type of person. We could've probably gotten away with him sitting out of the Detroit game but Parcells does not believe in that type of thing..so... we didn't have Henry for Denver and now we dont have him for the Giants. It just sucks because Henry is greatly responsible for our success this year..it's going to catch up with us that he's not in there sooner or later.

 

[silverbear]

A coach like Parcells can do more harm than good at times when he pushes an injured player too hard. There is a distinct difference between "hurt" and "injured" and I don't think Parcells draws that distinction very well.

That's a legitimate complaint, but I refer back to my thoughts about creating a mentally tough team...

I know that I always responded best to the coaches who leaned on me... I developed an "I'll show that bastidge" mindset, and sometimes the result was that I played better than I even dreamed I could...

It may well be that my response to Parcells on this one is rooted in that mindset from back in my competitive days...

 

[silverbear]

You're right, we don't exactly know the inner happenings but I guess I am an "err on the side of caution" type of person.

Generally speaking, so am I... but as I've said earlier in this thread, I view it as a coach's job to push his players...

It just sucks because Henry is greatly responsible for our success this year..it's going to catch up with us that he's not in there sooner or later.

Yeah, it might... doesn't mean that Parcells is wrong to push his players when it comes to injuries...

 

[stiletto]

Actually, it sounded more to me like he was gettin' ticked at the questions... seems like all they wanted to talk about was injuries... I noted that he went on at some length to one question that had nothing to do with injuries, something about comparing how he approaches the game in September as opposed to December...

And as for his comments on Henry, I read them as the coach using a little psychological motivation on his player, tryin' to get in his head... rather like Jimmy Johnson and his asthma field...

Do you think Jimmy Johnson did that to his STAR players like Aikman or Emmitt? Anthony Henry is one of our STAR players.. lets be honest here. He should make sure that guy is 100% before risking further injury to him. Oh I forgot Parcells doesnt like star QB's...well if he doesnt want a celebrity QB why would he want a celebrity at any other position? I think Henry was playing at celebrity level myself. It's one thing to treat a backup OL'man like dirt but another thing to treat your starting pro-bowl level playing CB like that... i just dont like it..sue me if you disagree. Oh ya i forgot he can do no wrong.

 

[silverbear]

Do you think Jimmy Johnson did that to his STAR players like Aikman or Emmitt?

Nope... and I think that's one of the times HE was wrong... you send a bad message to your fringe players, when you let your stars skate...

 

[1fisher]

A man's actions have consequences, son... if you come in here spewin' stupid trash, you're liable to find yourself getting trashed... if you dismiss anybody who disagrees with you by declaring them a "homer", then you're going to find yourself getting trashed...



Wish I could say the same...



I think it's asinine for you to expect ANY coach to turn around a train wreck like the Cowboys were when Parcells came in here in two short years... I think that Jimmy Johnson took a couple-three years to build his winner, and that any KNOWLEDGEABLE football fan should be able to recognize that rebuilding a team that flawed doesn't happen overnight...



Yeah, I had a problem with that... I also had a problem with Jimmuh creating a quarterback controversy with Aikman/Walsh... ALL coaches make SOME questionable decisions, the measure is if the questionable decisions are outweighed by sound ones... I think that has been the case with Parcells, and I think that not only is this team better now than it was when he took over (far better, actually), I think that it's being built in such a way as to be competitive at the highest level for the next few years...

So all in all, I focus on the positive, while you seem to prefer to get down in the mud and wail and moan...



And yet, you've been criticizing him loudly and longly in this thread for his handling of injured players... you talk about having no respect for "homers", but I have no respect for fans like you who talk out of both sides of their mouth...

s-bear....great post....