Update: Texas Dad Beats His Daughter’s Molester to Death *Post 286*

[RastaRocket]

This. I fully understand why he killed him, but at the same time you cannot take the law into your own hands.

He actually did not break the law. In Texas what he did is completely legal. He will definitely go to court and some prosecutor will have to bring up a case; but he should come out innocent because you are allowed to kill somebody to prevent molestation. I think the law is posted near the bottom of the first page somewhere.

 

[jobberone]

The law is often murky when it comes to self defense or defense of others. There is no question he was within his rights to defend his daughter against grievous harm and sexual assault generally has its own separate defense along with defense of bodily harm.

I'm not privy to the facts. Generally if there is a breech of your home or car then you can use deadly force. Texas is one of many states that is a stand your ground state ie, you do not have to retreat first. Here the case is defense of another human being from grave injury or death and in this case also sexual assault.

Generally you may only use justifiable and proportional force to prevent injury or death. Once the attacker is subdued, retreats, or is incapacitated then you may not proceed to cause further injury to as assailant.

If the guy was helpless and then he went and got a shovel and beat him to death then you have a clear violation of the law. There is no justifiable homicide defense that includes vengeance in the US. Again though I don't see this being either prosecuted or him found guilty of anything serious. The victim was a four year old child! A lot will depend on all the facts.

If he killed him in a vengeful way I do worry some about a civil suit for wrongful death. I hope that is not the case. I doubt a Texas jury would award anything and/or find for the plaintiffs should that happen but it would be an expensive defense not to mention mentally exhausting.

Prayers to that little girl who has been traumatized and to the family. Hopefully she will be one of those victims that triumphs over the sequalae of this vicious and unconscionable attack.

 

[Kingsmith88]

Years ago there was a situation in which a man raped an 8 year old girl and he was let go due to an error by the deputies when arresting him. It was no secret that he was guilty. The men of our community got together and burned him out. They torched his house and made sure that there was nothing left. It wasn't a secret who set the fire. One of my best friends worked with law enforcement and he told me that very little effort was made to bring the guilty parties to justice. The child molester was warned to leave the area and after the fire, he took the advice. There are cases that vigilante justice is needed. I respected the men of the community that took care of the problem. This happened about thirty years ago. With the modern laws, the child molester would have stayed in the community and may have molested again. I guess I'm an old school kind of guy when it comes to these kind of things. I sure miss the times when men were allowed to tare care of matters that the law couldn't.

Sounds an awful lot like Nightmare on Elm St. Anyway, what they did was wrong and they should have gone to jail for it. In those times men were allowed to be lynched for the color of their skin. Don't count me in as one of those people who glamorize those times.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Gentlemen.

I understand this can be a sensitive subject.

There is nothing wrong with debating and arguing the topic at hand but let's remember not to start with the personal attacks over the situation.

Just because you might not agree with someone on a topic it does not mean you need to start with the personal insults and name calling.

 

[JoseyWales]

I got some training which wasn't in any way called martial arts but there was some jujitsu moves and hand to hand combat along with bayonet and blade work. And I've never heard or seen a basic or advanced trainee teach anything but I'm not going to say it couldn't or didn't happen. I got to help some other 'privates' with the rifle.

Yeah, in basic training you get a couple days of training in hand to hand combat, and bayonet training. Which has absolutely nothing to do with martial arts, aside from a couple very basic holds/throws.

Ranger school is a whole 'nother ball of wax. But nobody goes through that training when they first enter the military. You have to be chosen through a strict selection process to attend that school, after you've been in awhile.

And as far as singing Airborne Ranger cadences while running, everyone does it. From cooks to infantry, and all MOS's in between. You can pick up a cassette/CD of them at any PX/BX if you want to learn them.

 

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

He actually did not break the law. In Texas what he did is completely legal. He will definitely go to court and some prosecutor will have to bring up a case; but he should come out innocent because you are allowed to kill somebody to prevent molestation. I think the law is posted near the bottom of the first page somewhere.

It shouldn't be legal. You shouldn't be allowed to take the law into your own hands.

 

[casmith07]

But cas..put yourself in his shoes..how would you have handled it...remember he is molesting YOUR daughter when you walk in....I admit in my younger days I was a quick tempered ready to fight at the drop of a hat, so I can't honestly say that what this father did isn't any different than the way I would have handled it

I probably would have done exactly the same thing, fully understanding that I would face the music for it.

 

[casmith07]

The law is often murky when it comes to self defense or defense of others. There is no question he was within his rights to defend his daughter against grievous harm and sexual assault generally has its own separate defense along with defense of bodily harm.

I'm not privy to the facts. Generally if there is a breech of your home or car then you can use deadly force. Texas is one of many states that is a stand your ground state ie, you do not have to retreat first. Here the case is defense of another human being from grave injury or death and in this case also sexual assault.

Generally you may only use justifiable and proportional force to prevent injury or death. Once the attacker is subdued, retreats, or is incapacitated then you may not proceed to cause further injury to as assailant.

If the guy was helpless and then he went and got a shovel and beat him to death then you have a clear violation of the law. There is no justifiable homicide defense that includes vengeance in the US. Again though I don't see this being either prosecuted or him found guilty of anything serious. The victim was a four year old child! A lot will depend on all the facts.

If he killed him in a vengeful way I do worry some about a civil suit for wrongful death. I hope that is not the case. I doubt a Texas jury would award anything and/or find for the plaintiffs should that happen but it would be an expensive defense not to mention mentally exhausting.

Prayers to that little girl who has been traumatized and to the family. Hopefully she will be one of those victims that triumphs over the sequalae of this vicious and unconscionable attack.

This is the most sensible post here.

Defense of others is absolutely a a duty/right. The problem is that he beat him to death, not that he beat him up.

 

[Doomsday101]

If I was on a jury of this man he walks. Protecting your family you bet

 

[StevenOtero]

It shouldn't be legal. You shouldn't be allowed to take the law into your own hands.

It's very easy to spout off those kind of words until you've actually been in a situation like that.

Hey, someone is molesting my daughter....let's call the cops and wait for them to come! ...because the Police aren't corrupt, and the "Justice" system always has justice.... right? Wrong.

 

[JBond]

Seriously? You think all initial newspaper reports are perfect and that the details in them should never raise questions?

And where exactly did I make any claims to expertise? But yeah, it seems to me from things I've read about many other cases (victim testimony, etc.) that child molesters generally take great pains to make sure they're alone with the kids. Not sure why that would be a controversial thought.

The story as reported does seem a bit fishy to me

Fishy? Controversial? Oh well. I thought you might have some real world experience when you declared it fishy. Reading the occasional newspaper article is the total of your expertise on the subject matter. About what I expected abby.

I am still curious why you believe the reporter may not have the facts correct. Either you believe the reporter made a mistake or the father is lying.

abby is a fishy guy. Do you always declare that reports of molesters are fishy or only when they get caught and killed?

 

[WV Cowboy]

I am sitting here reading through this thread.

It came in my mind that if I caught some 40 yr old man showing his genitals to my little four yr old daughter, I might want to kill him.

But if I walked in on him molesting her, I am afraid I would react as if he were a rattlesnake.

I may regret it later, but like a rattlesnake, I would have to kill it so it would never bite anyone again.

Also, it came to mind, .. perhaps this perve fought back and he killed him in self-defense.

Either way he is a hero.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Fishy? Controversial? Oh well. I thought you might have some real world experience when you declared it fishy. Reading the occasional newspaper article is the total of your expertise on the subject matter. About what I expected abby.

I am still curious why you believe the reporter may not have the facts correct. Either you believe the reporter made a mistake or the father is lying.

abby is a fishy guy. Do you always declare that reports of molesters are fishy or only when they get caught and killed?

With the way media works today...I think it is perfectly rational to find almost any story fish today.

How many times have we seen it...where a newspaper, website or news show throw out a story and everyone gets in an uproar but as the story continue to unfolds in the following days we find out that the news source got it wrong. Whether they did so unintentionally or due to intentionally being bias in the reporting?

Seen WAAAAY too many instances of this from news sources in the past few years.

 

[jnday]

It shouldn't be legal. You shouldn't be allowed to take the law into your own hands.

In today's justice system the criminal often seems to have more rights than the victim. In this case the father made sure that the molester could not hide behind a legal system that could very well have let him go free. I no longer trust the legal system to deal out justice.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I don't think many here could control their anger or actions if something like this happened to them. I don't think many fathers, relatives or even if you are just good friends of the family and see it happening to one of their children would be able to control their actions in this type of situation.

For this very reason I think most agree that the guy will never serve time for this situation and will be innocent of any charges. I doubt there is anyone here who believes a jury will find this man guilty.

Now with that said...it does not mean there should not be an investigation, arrest if need be, trial if need be.

And just because someone says that there should be an investigation, arrest or possible trial...it does not mean they support rapists and molestation and saying that is silly.

Nor does it mean that just because they think there should be an investigation, arrest or trial that they think the guy should be put in prison for doing what he did or that they don't think they would do the same.

Sometimes people just believe the law should be followed and sometimes following the law means going through some processes that eventually will result in one being found not guilty.

Just something to consider that just because someone thinks the process of the law should be followed it does not mean they think rapist and child molestation is OK.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

In today's justice system the criminal often seems to have more rights than the victim. In this case the father made sure that the molester could not hide behind a legal system that could very well have let him go free. I no longer trust the legal system to deal out justice.

I don't think the father was thinking that if he killed the guy there was no way he would go free from the justice system...I think that is a stretch. I think the father was in complete rage and protection mode, and rightfully so, and went from there.

As far as trusting the justice system or not. Whether or not you like the law or not is not justification of refusing to follow the law. I am NOT saying that what he did was wrong...I am saying that just because someone does not trust the legal system it makes it ok to ignore it and do as you please.

 

[Doomsday101]

I don't think the father was thinking that if he killed the guy there was no way he would go free from the justice system...I think that is a stretch. I think the father was in complete rage and protection mode, and rightfully so, and went from there.

As far as trusting the justice system or not. Whether or not you like the law or not is not justification of refusing to follow the law. I am NOT saying that what he did was wrong...I am saying that just because someone does not trust the legal system it makes it ok to ignore it and do as you please.

I agree. I think certain animal instincts kick in when protecting your child. I doubt the cops the courts or the justice system in any way shape or form entered his mind. His little girl was being attacked and he did what most parents would have done.

 

[jnday]

Sounds an awful lot like Nightmare on Elm St. Anyway, what they did was wrong and they should have gone to jail for it. In those times men were allowed to be lynched for the color of their skin. Don't count me in as one of those people who glamorize those times.

These actions were a case of men standing up and protecting their children and community from a child molester. What should people do when the justice system clearly fails? Should the criminal continue to live like he has done nothing wrong?

 

[rkell87]

I don't think the father was thinking that if he killed the guy there was no way he would go free from the justice system...I think that is a stretch. I think the father was in complete rage and protection mode, and rightfully so, and went from there.

As far as trusting the justice system or not. Whether or not you like the law or not is not justification of refusing to follow the law. I am NOT saying that what he did was wrong...I am saying that just because someone does not trust the legal system it makes it ok to ignore it and do as you please.

that is not necessarily true, you have the right to not follow an unjust law, because an unjust law is not a law at all. I'm not saying that is the case here just pointing it out

 

[big dog cowboy]

I no longer trust the legal system to deal out justice.

Been hearing that for decades.