Vela: How Strong Was the “Wade Phillips Effect?”

[Alexander]

My only problems with Wade is he came in with an attack, go get em reputation. When the games got to be real meaningful he was total opposite. Letting the Giants walk right down the field before halftime comes to mind. This is my biggest problem with him. You cant consistently play your corners 12 yards off the reciever and expect them to cover. I dont know what game it was (im thinking Det or Wash) but Henry was playing so far off the reciever and did everything in his power to stop the pass but was late, he turned around and flipped at the sideline because of it. We did it the whole year. Teams werent patient enough to stick with it. Miami in week 2 is an example of this. That game was alot closer than the score indicated. In the first half, the fish were moving the ball on 7-8 yard outs and slants because we were playing 12 yards off. In the second half they decided to want to go deep and it was the wrong move. No matter what Chambers had 9 catches, Booker had 7 and someone else had 5(Hagens maybe). That right there tells you about our db placement.

Interesting points.

But I will pose this question.

Was there any game last year where our defensive strategy was impressive to the point anyone could point to it as the reason for the victory?

I can't say there was.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

What's Dungy done other than having Manning?

My turn.
What has Wade done other than having Romo?

 

[dcfanatic]

Just a thought, but with all the #1 draft picks on this defense I think they should have been better.

The pass rush was there for the most part, but they didn't dominate any games and the next highest sack total by a player not named Ellis or Ware was Chris Canty with only 3.5 sacks.

The run defense was good, but again not dominant and they did allow 4.0 ypc which was middle of the pack.

The talent level + Wade's guru status should have put up top 5 defense in my opinion. I hope we see that in 2008 after Wade has a year under his belt to really get to know these guys.

 

[TheCount]

What's Dungy done other than having Manning? Coach some mediocre defenses?

Talk about a defensive coach with some poor offenses. In his last 3 playoff games at Tampa, his offense scored a total of 18 points.

You obviously missed the masterful job he did turning the Colts D from a laughing stock to Superbowl champs.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Four. Straight. Drives. No. Points.

Our last two drives...you know...the drives where we didn't score points...started on the Dallas 44 and the Giants 48. Screw field position. We couldn't score.

So 2 drives in which you don't score is a good enough sample size to determine that Garrett was "figured out?"

Couldn't be that Gurode had the yips out of the shotgun formation which throws off the entire O-Line and Romo himself. Not sure how that's figuring out Garrett.





YAKUZA

 

[Sasquatch]

God, I hope he stays for the next decade. Defensive genius.

He's just keeping the chair warmed for Garrett, don't you know?

 

[theogt]

My turn.
What has Wade done other than having Romo?

You obviously missed the masterful job he did turning the Colts D from a laughing stock to Superbowl champs.

In 2006 when they won the Super Bowl, they were the 26th ranked defense according to Football Outsider's DVOA.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

In 2006 when they won the Super Bowl, they were the 26th ranked defense according to Football Outsider's DVOA.

Unfortunately for the opposing Bears in that Super Bowl, the refs did not deduct points for the Colts' defensive stats that year.

Not to belabor the point, but never having won a playoff game as HC (Wade) is a long way from winning a super bowl (Dungy.)

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

We started off great.
Never really even got back to the midline.

"Wade Phillips Effect"

 

[TheCount]

In 2006 when they won the Super Bowl, they were the 26th ranked defense according to Football Outsider's DVOA.

Rankings are nice and all, afterall we had one of the top offenses the last two seasons, but the job the Colts D did on their Superbowl run was extraordinary.

How many people thought the Chiefs would put up 300 yards on them? They got 50. This on a run D that had been the butt of many jokes that year. Their defense has become more formidable than it ever was, this is a coach that got Superbowl type play out of guys like Jason David.

Not to even begin to mention they haven't invested nearly the amount of horsepower we have in our defense, how many 1st rounder do we have back there? They've spent 4 1st round picks on defense in the last 10 years, in the same time we've used 9 1st round picks on defensive guys.

Dungy is a darn good coach, if he didn't have so much other stuff going on in his life, he could be a head coach in the NFL forever.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Are you going to add to the discussion or basically add what amounts to a smiley post?

No, because you're obviously going on the way things "strike you" or the way they "seem" to you, despite evidence to the contrary.

For instance, that a guy who has improved pretty much every team he's gone to and is 20 games over .500 for his career is a "lousy" head coach.

Or that a guy who got the notoriously difficult Terrell Owens to act the best he has in his career "can't manage personalities".

Or that our defensive strategy couldn't be pointed to as a reason for victory all year long.

LOL.

The arrogant, tough-guy, know-it-all attitude of yours is amusing, so I laugh.

But I guess that's why you chose the avatar you did.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Rankings are nice and all, afterall we had one of the top offenses the last two seasons, but the job the Colts D did on their Superbowl run was extraordinary.

How many people thought the Chiefs would put up 300 yards on them? They got 50. This on a run D that had been the butt of many jokes that year.

Dungy is a darn good coach, if he didn't have so much other stuff going on in his life, he could be a head coach in the NFL forever.

It's not like the Colts played against good offenses. They beat the Chiefs, Ravens in the cold wind, Patriots (an offense that struggled with Reche Caldwell as their #1) and the Bears, in the rain.



YAKUZA

 

[TheCount]

It's not like the Colts played against good offenses. They beat the Chiefs, Ravens in the cold wind, Patriots (an offense that struggled with Reche Caldwell as their #1) and the Bears, in the rain.



YAKUZA

Does it matter? They won the Superbowl. They can only play the teams that step on the field and since when has the weather been an excuse to downgrade a win? The Colts play in a dome all year and had to play in the same conditions the other teams played in.

I'm not saying they are the 85 Bears here, my point is that Dungy is a very good coach.

 

[superpunk]

Wade did the best he could with the hand he was dealt. I don't think we had the talent to be any better than we were. Part of that is the natural progression of our players, part of that is adding parts that helped our defense, part of it is that DeMarcus Ware and Ratliff are two of the best players in the NFL at their respective positions. But his team ultimately didn't really do much better than they did the year before. I don't think that's Wade's fault, he can't keep Jacques Reeves from sucking or facemasking people for no reason. But as the head coach, he has to take the heat for that, and it's amped up with RJ sitting on the pine waiting for the call-up. Wade inherited a stacked team. Ultimately he's going to be judged by where they go in the playoffs, not by our defensive ranking.

I'd also say our offense had a pretty large hand in our defensive ranking. Getting on teams early and often really helps your defensive playcalling. In games where we couldn't put the screws into teams early, it seemed like the defense struggled to stop opposing offenses consistently.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

Then you apparently enjoy losing a playoff game and your coach telling you it is okay.

Until Wade Phillips wins a playoff game as a Head Coach, I think it is extremely foolish to consider him one of the better coaches in football.

The revisionist history in this thread is also striking. Poor Wade Phillips was just getting by with the hand he was dealt, yeah a team full of Pro Bowlers on both sides of the ball.

Michael Strahan stated after the Super Bowl that the Cowboys, talent-wise was still the best team his Giants faced in 2007.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

No, because you're obviously going on the way things "strike you" or the way they "seem" to you, despite evidence to the contrary.

For instance, that a guy who has improved pretty much every team he's gone to and is 20 games over .500 for his career is a "lousy" head coach.

Or that a guy who got the notoriously difficult Terrell Owens to act the best he has in his career "can't manage personalities".

Or that our defensive strategy couldn't be pointed to as a reason for victory all year long.

LOL.

The arrogant, tough-guy, know-it-all attitude of yours is amusing, so I laugh.

But I guess that's why you chose the avatar you did.

Alas, this community of Cowboy fans in the Zone, is largely fueled by things that "strike" us and the way they "seem."

We can't help it. We LOVE the Cowboys.
Things that strike us or seem this or that way are collectively called opinion, despite whatever statistical evidence there is out there.

You, a loyal Cowboy fan, might think being 20 games over .500 is great.
But, mon amis, in those dark days after we ran into that buzzsaw called the Giants, somehow that stat did not comfort me. Did it comfort you?

Seeing Wade march off the field that day, as if 13-3 was still good enough for him, made me wonder how much better the Cowboys would have been with a coach, like Coughlin, who breathed fire, or like Garrett, whose volcano simmered inside.

And, unfortunately in this world, a person's worth is dependent on what have you done lately.
Today, Michael Jackson is nowheresville, man, while acts like the Neptunes and Taylor Swift are on top.

So now we find a Wade Phillips leading the world's most glamorous and well-stocked team in the NFL to the playoffs, we hope.
But what has Wade done lately? Aside from "building" an awesome defense in San Diego years ago, what really concrete achievements does he have lately?
A one-in-and-out in the playoffs last year?

Coughlin, on the other hand, WILLED his underachieving team into being Super Bowl champs over a mighty Pats team. He's done something lately.

Wade's stops as HC have been almost adequate. Now he's hit the lottery and all some are saying is: He needs to get to the Super Bowl or he's out and Garrett is in.

Somehow, Wade has not kicked in that dadgum door like his father once deemed to do.

He has one more year to keep knocking and then kick it in.

Otherwise, Jerra will kick him out. And rightfully so.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Does it matter? They won the Superbowl.
.

It matters when the context of the thread has turned into Dungy having a good defense in '06 or even in the postseason run for that matter. They won the Super Bowl because of their offense which got them into the postseason.

Their defense "turned it around" in the postseason, but it's difficult to really gauge how well they turned it around since they played against mediocre offensive teams.

I have no problem with Dungy as a coach, but his defenses have been poor in Indianapolis for the most part.




YAKUZA

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Then you apparently enjoy losing a playoff game and your coach telling you it is okay.

I second that emotion.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

It matters when the context of the thread has turned into Dungy having a good defense in '06 or even in the postseason run for that matter. They won the Super Bowl because of their offense which got them into the postseason.

Their defense "turned it around" in the postseason, but it's difficult to really gauge how well they turned it around since they played against mediocre offensive teams.

I have no problem with Dungy as a coach, but his defenses have been poor in Indianapolis for the most part.




YAKUZA

Distill all the talk about Dungy's limitations and you still get a Lombardi.

As opposed to never having won a playoff game as a HC.

In the NFL it is results, not shortcomings.

 

[TheCount]

It matters when the context of the thread has turned into Dungy having a good defense in '06 or even in the postseason run for that matter. They won the Super Bowl because of their offense which got them into the postseason.

Their defense "turned it around" in the postseason, but it's difficult to really gauge how well they turned it around since they played against mediocre offensive teams.

I have no problem with Dungy as a coach, but his defenses have been poor in Indianapolis for the most part.

YAKUZA

Poor? Define poor?

He inherited a terrible defense and has been installing the Tampa 2 which takes some time since it requires players with very specific skill sets. As I said, they've only spent 4 1st rounders on defense in the last 10 years, and Dungy has only been there 5 years.

In 2007 their defense was statistically the #3 overall, #2 in pass defense but in the middle of the pack in run D which is a consequence of the defense they play.

No team that actively runs the Tampa 2 is exactly stout at defending the run, the front 7 ends up undersized and can be bullied.

To even begin to say his defenses have been "poor" is just buying the media hype, just like the myth that our pass defense was horrendous as been proven as foolish.