Vela: Maybe Ellis is right?

[Alexander]

Ok...I'm ashamed. Now, tell us, what do you think Ellis needs to resolve this mess?

What would you do? How would you handle it if you were Jerry? Detail please on what you would do.

quincyyyyy (Love the username, BTW, don't ever change, it is perfect): Give Greg what he wants, create a full scale contractual mutiny and watch the integrity of the franchise take a huge hit. After all, he is such a nice person and everyone, including Jerry Jones, should hold their heads down in shame for being so heartless.

 

[Hostile]

Right about what?

I think that his complaining to the media is wrong and counterproductive, as I have previously stated.

So what are you right about, bashing one of the best players on the Dallas Cowboys for the last decade. Bashing a leader on our defense. Bashing a genuinely nice a good person.

Good for you.

Drama Major? Just a hunch.

Let me put it like this, being one of the best players on a poor team is hardly an accomplishment. He has never lived up to my expectations. I am tired of his yearly off season "what about me" wailing.

If I could buy him for what he is worth and sell him for what he thinks he is worth I'd be the richest man on this forum.

You've foolishly tried to compare achilles injuries to knee injuries and you seriously want your point to be weighed thoughtfully. For the love of sanity, why? Alexander spoke the exact truth. It took a YOUNGER, BETTER player than he has ever been TWO years to recover and be solid.

Just being realistic. That means we should be ashamed? Bull.

Here...thank you Greg for your years of dedicated service. Now shut the hell up. Now I don't have to be ashamed any more.

 

[Hostile]

quincyyyyy (Love the username, BTW, don't ever change, it is perfect): Give Greg what he wants, create a full scale contractual mutiny and watch the integrity of the franchise take a huge hit. After all, he is such a nice person and everyone, including Jerry Jones, should hold their heads down in shame for being so heartless.

How that is not obvious to these guys is beyond me.

 

[Hostile]

I would trade him.

I wouldn't be happy about it, but this is a buisness. But I wouldn't bash him in the process. He deserves better than that.

No one would bash him if he would shut up.

Just the facts.

As for better than the bashing...how about the chance to play for a Super Bowl contender?

 

[Big Dakota]

I would trade him.

I wouldn't be happy about it, but this is a buisness. But I wouldn't bash him in the process. He deserves better than that.

Sounds like you are more worried about what's best for Greg. Maybe you are a Greg fan and not a Cowboys fan? I don't care if it's Tom Landry, Emmitt Smith or Greg Ellis, i side with what's best for the Cowboys. It's a tough business and feelings get hurt over departures and contracts, but through it all i'm on the side of the STAR. Ellis can help this team. This team may be on the edge of championship. He wants out now? He can still be a huge player for us. What if Ware or Spencer get hurt? Greg is going nowhere and he will play because it's in the best interest of the Cowboys for him to do so and i suspect he's to greedy to just walk away for 2+ million.

 

[quincyyyyy]

quincyyyyy (Love the username, BTW, don't ever change, it is perfect): Give Greg what he wants, create a full scale contractual mutiny and watch the integrity of the franchise take a huge hit. After all, he is such a nice person and everyone, including Jerry Jones, should hold their heads down in shame for being so heartless.

look at my post above

 

[Jarv]

Greg signed that deal during the "Campo, we have no cap room or 1st round draft picks (thanks Joey) years".

I guess in retrospect he should have (and would have gotten) a lot more money on the open market. At the time I thought it was a great thing for Greg to do, showed us loyalty.

Are you guys pissed at Joey for swallowing 2 1st round draft picks too (on 5-11 years no less) ? Of course he didn't negoiate the draft picks part of the deal, but we should hold him to blame too.

Does anyone seriously think Greg couldn't have gotten Winstrom money at the time he signed a friendly deal with us ?

I don't like the mouthing off much either, Greg, you should have took other peoples money and run at the time...Of course if you did you still would be bashed in this room because you weren't loyal to us at that time...

 

[quincyyyyy]

Drama Major? Just a hunch.

Let me put it like this, being one of the best players on a poor team is hardly an accomplishment. He has never lived up to my expectations. I am tired of his yearly off season "what about me" wailing.

If I could buy him for what he is worth and sell him for what he thinks he is worth I'd be the richest man on this forum.

You've foolishly tried to compare achilles injuries to knee injuries and you seriously want your point to be weighed thoughtfully. For the love of sanity, why? Alexander spoke the exact truth. It took a YOUNGER, BETTER player than he has ever been TWO years to recover and be solid.

Just being realistic. That means we should be ashamed? Bull.

Here...thank you Greg for your years of dedicated service. Now shut the hell up. Now I don't have to be ashamed any more.

Football is not just a game to him its his job. How would you like it if you were a secretary that was used to writing pen and paper and then was forced to use a type writer. Then your boss brought in someone better than you at typing, with the knowledge that there are many jobs out there that want pen and paper writing. Try to look at it from his perspective. Now like I said I don't like him complaining to the media, but I'll forgive him for that, and I do think we should trade him. This is not a great situation for either him or the team, but I think it is kind of sad that fans would so easily turn on a leader, good player, and a good person like greg ellis.

 

[Hostile]

Football is not just a game to him its his job. How would you like it if you were a secretary that was used to writing pen and paper and then was forced to use a type writer. Then your boss brought in someone better than you at typing, with the knowledge that there are many jobs out there that want pen and paper writing. Try to look at it from his perspective. Now like I said I don't like him complaining to the media, but I'll forgive him for that, and I do think we should trade him. This is not a great situation for either him or the team, but I think it is kind of sad that fans would so easily turn on a leader, good player, and a good person like greg ellis.

I got nothing. That was sad.

 

[theogt]

Greg Ellis could be a starter on most teams, and he knows this. He is 32 years old and only has a few years left in the tank. If you were him would you want to waste the last few years of your NFL career being a backup. Sorry if Ellis is not a pure altruist, but the guy has a point.

I wouldn't have signed the contract if I didn't think it was what I was worth at the time he signed it.

 

[Jarv]

I wouldn't have signed the contract if I didn't think it was what I was worth at the time he signed it.

That seems to be the crux of the issue, he gave us a break at the time...He should have dumped us instead.

 

[DallasEast]

Medical science has advanced a lot. Injuries like the one Ellis had are now very easy to recover from. Look at Flo last year, while he started off slow towards the end of the year he finished strong.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=woOLEEu8RLI

 

[DallasEast]

Football is not just a game to him its his job. How would you like it if you were a secretary that was used to writing pen and paper and then was forced to use a type writer. Then your boss brought in someone better than you at typing, with the knowledge that there are many jobs out there that want pen and paper writing. Try to look at it from his perspective. Now like I said I don't like him complaining to the media, but I'll forgive him for that, and I do think we should trade him. This is not a great situation for either him or the team, but I think it is kind of sad that fans would so easily turn on a leader, good player, and a good person like greg ellis.

I really think that it is the WHINING that is turning Cowboys fans against him now. JMO.

 

[theogt]

That seems to be the crux of the issue, he gave us a break at the time...He should have dumped us instead.

He was just dumb for signing a 7 year contract that lasted until he was 34.

Funny how all he wants to talk about is long-term commitment.

 

[Pabst]

What if Ware or Spencer get hurt? Greg is going nowhere and he will play because it's in the best interest of the Cowboys for him to do so and i suspect he's to greedy to just walk away for 2+ million.

Best point in the thread so far, and one that directly shows Vela why Ellis needs to stay. Look at last year. The pass rush died when Ellis went down, because we only had two decent PR'ers (Ware/Ellis).

I know many people think that by Wade Phillips being here, the pass rush will be "fixed," but I am not so confident. I think it should improve, yes, but if Phillips' San Diego defenses showed anything, it was the need for at least three decent rush LBs. You think Merriman would have all those sacks if Foley and Edwards were both down? Maybe... but I sure wouldn't want to bet on it.

 

[superpunk]

That seems to be the crux of the issue, he gave us a break at the time...He should have dumped us instead.

It was the best deal he could have gotten at the time. Open market or not.

Repeating the above a hundred times isn't going to make it true. Greg wasn't half the player Little or Wistrom were at the time of those contracts, and was an injury risk. Both of them were putting up double digit sacks and either playing in pro-bowls or playing for world champions.

Greg was notching seven sacks and disappearing in december for one of the league's worst teams.

He signed the absolute best deal he could get, or he wouldn't have signed it. There was no discount. He got what he's worth, and he's played like it since then. It's not Jerry's fault the market and salary cap have changed, while Greg Ellis remains the same average player with the same problems. He could've had more money if he'd just notched 10 sacks once. He couldn't. Whose fault is that?

So can we please stop repeating this myth that Ellis gave us some break? He didn't. The Cowboys don't owe him jack. They've lived up to their end of the contract they signed completely, and Greg has done nothing to warrant a change in that contract, like say a Terry Glenn or Flozell Adams.

 

[cleverusername]

No one would bash him if he would shut up.

Just the facts.

As for better than the bashing...how about the chance to play for a Super Bowl contender?

Exactly...

I have a lot of respect for the guy and think he has done a good job throughout his career as a Cowboy. Heck, I can even kinda understand his point. Maybe he deserves a little more money, maybe not, but this is the contract he signed.

If he would have brought his grievances to Jerry man to man, face to face in Jerry's office no one would be bashing him right now. He brings it on himself.

The good thing is last year he finally shut up and played some all out decent football until he got hurt. I have to believe he will do the same thing again.

Because even though he is an emotional basket case that thinks every off season is festivous, ... deep down (very deep) he really is a team player that loves the game. And I think Jerry knows this ,which is why he won't get more money (at least untill he performs and is healthy) and why he won't get released or traded , (because he is still has the ability to play at a high level ) and that would just be stupid on a team that lacks LB depth.

 

[5Stars]

Football is not just a game to him its his job. How would you like it if you were a secretary that was used to writing pen and paper and then was forced to use a type writer. Then your boss brought in someone better than you at typing, with the knowledge that there are many jobs out there that want pen and paper writing. Try to look at it from his perspective. Now like I said I don't like him complaining to the media, but I'll forgive him for that, and I do think we should trade him. This is not a great situation for either him or the team, but I think it is kind of sad that fans would so easily turn on a leader, good player, and a good person like greg ellis.

If my boss told me that typewriters are more important today than a pen and pencil, and that I should just hang around because they might need a pen and pencil at some time...and still pay my salary?

GO FOR IT! Someone needs to teach the new guy what to write on the typewriter because if he does his job better, I might finally get what I was here for in the first place!

Hell, while I'm kicking back I'll watch the boss' kids, too!

 

[Jarv]

It was the best deal he could have gotten at the time. Open market or not.

Repeating the above a hundred times isn't going to make it true. Greg wasn't half the player Little or Wistrom were at the time of those contracts, and was an injury risk. Both of them were putting up double digit sacks and either playing in pro-bowls or playing for world champions.

Greg was notching seven sacks and disappearing in december for one of the league's worst teams.

He signed the absolute best deal he could get, or he wouldn't have signed it. There was no discount. He got what he's worth, and he's played like it since then. It's not Jerry's fault the market and salary cap have changed, while Greg Ellis remains the same average player with the same problems. He could've had more money if he'd just notched 10 sacks once. He couldn't. Whose fault is that?

So can we please stop repeating this myth that Ellis gave us some break? He didn't. The Cowboys don't owe him jack. They've lived up to their end of the contract they signed completely, and Greg has done nothing to warrant a change in that contract, like say a Terry Glenn or Flozell Adams.

Lets keep this simple, I disagree. He could have gotten more money elsewhere. Even at the time the deal was known as a player friendly deal.

How much would the dreaded Skins pay for him now you think ? They are screaming for DE's and Ellis would get 10 million SB there I bet.

 

[jobberone]

I don't think its all about money and it certainly isn't remotely altruistic on either side.

He isn' t going to shame or guilt Jerry into giving him more money. His public outrage or venting is not going to hold Jerry hostage.

He should either hold out or be quiet.