Vela: Maybe Ellis is right?

[quincyyyyy]

2006 weights/heights -

Ellis: 270, 6-6
McGinest: 268, 6-5
Thomas: 270, 6-2

Are we talking about Ellis or Dexter Coakley here?

Those numbers aren't correct. According to the dallas morning news Ellis played at 275 last year, but came into mini-camp this year at 265.

at 6-6 275 he was the biggest linebacker out there.

 

[quincyyyyy]

You have a gift for exagerration.
Is this like when you stated "most teams" was somehow greater than half?

I mispoke there, my point was there was plenty of teams that would want him.

 

[DallasEast]

Those numbers aren't correct. According to the dallas morning news Ellis played at 275 last year, but came into mini-camp this year at 265.

at 6-6 275 he is the biggest linebacker out there.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/12350
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/3927
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187661

Don't blame me. Those were the measurements reported to NFL.com and are just as valid as any other NFL source.

 

[zrinkill]

I am done with the crybaby ...... he sounds like a Mavs/Suns fan .....

If he does not want to be a Cowboy ...... trade him.

 

[quincyyyyy]

You have a gift for exagerration.

McGinest is two pounds less and an inch shorter than Greg Ellis per NFL.com.

Thomas is the exactly the same weight Ellis is.

Talk about grasping at straws.

Is this like when you stated "most teams" was somehow greater than half?

But Thomas as a much lower center of gravity than Ellis, and McGinest is actually 7 pounds lighter and an 1 inch shorter. he too doesn't have ideal body type for an OLB, but he has been doing this for longer than Ellis has, and he started earlier in his career, couple that with the fact that Ellis is slightly bigger than he is.

 

[quincyyyyy]

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/12350
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/3927
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187661

Don't blame me. Those were the measurements reported to NFL.com and are just as valid as any other NFL source.

http://www.***BANNED-URL***/sharedc...l/nfl/stories/053107dnspocowlede.382a534.html

 

[Alexander]

Those numbers aren't correct. According to the dallas morning news Ellis played at 275 last year, but came into mini-camp this year at 265.

at 6-6 275 he was the biggest linebacker out there.

So, I wonder if we go to the Baltimore Sun and ask what Thomas played at last year or the Cleveland Plain-Dealer about McGinest if we could get more accurate figures?

You have zero assurances that either of those players played at their listed weights either. But do not let facts stop you. Carry on.

But Thomas as a much lower center of gravity than Ellis, and McGinest is actually 7 pounds lighter and an 1 inch shorter. he too doesn't have ideal body type for an OLB, but he has been doing this for longer than Ellis has, and he started earlier in his career, couple that with the fact that Ellis is slightly bigger than he is.

It means nothing. Both were ends at one time or another. Both had to change. Ellis' achievement isn't any great than anything they had to do.

But both excelled at one time in their careers and did get the big paydays, so obviously they are doing something he isn't.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I mispoke there, my point was there was plenty of teams that would want him.

If he is healthy you are probably right. But that is a big IF.

 

[theogt]

Those numbers aren't correct. According to the dallas morning news Ellis played at 275 last year, but came into mini-camp this year at 265.

at 6-6 275 he was the biggest linebacker out there.

Whatever hell you're getting deserved or not in this thread, you're absolutely right about this point.

 

[quincyyyyy]

So, I wonder if we go to the Baltimore Sun and ask what Thomas played at last year or the Cleveland Plain-Dealer about McGinest if we could get more accurate figures?

You have zero assurances that either of those players played at their listed weights either. But do not let facts stop you. Carry on.

Like I said before you can't compare him to Thomas who is much shorter than he is. His height really affects his balance, and his center of gravity is not nearly as close to the ground as Thomas's is.

 

[Alexander]

Whatever hell you're getting deserved or not in this thread, you're absolutely right about this point.

So we just assume McGinest and Thomas played at their NFL.com weights, but since we have more details about Ellis, he's right.

My, that is brilliant.

 

[theogt]

So we just assume McGinest and Thomas played at their NFL.com weights, but since we have more details about Ellis, he's right.

My, that is brilliant.

Your Thomas comparison was horrible. That's not a good body-type comparison at all. The McGinest comparison is really close in terms of size and weight but it's my belief that Greg is (make that was) taller and heavier. Regardless, they are different body types. Greg does not have the body of a linebacker, IMO.

But using the listed weights for any of the players, McGinest or otherwise is just silly. We all know that. They're not correct, so I wouldn't use them.

 

[ilovejerry]

I find it funny that you guys are so willing to bash a good player and leader on the Cowboys just because he gets disgruntled over his contract a couple of months for the past couple of years. Yet you guys have a hard on for a crappy back who tries to spend as much time away from the team as possible.

First of all Who the hell said he was a Team leader? because he is old? You know this how? Please enlighten me, If you have access to the locker room or any team meetings I would love to hear it. Please share the info.
This guy is airing dirty laundry Just like T.O did in Philly. And he was a STAR on that team that got them to the SB ( not that it justifies what he did ) But now Mr Ellis is poping off.HMMMMMMM please tell me how this is being a leader? Action speaks louder then WORDS my man

 

[quincyyyyy]

First of all Who the hell said he was a Team leader? because he is old? You know this how? Please enlighten me, If you have access to the locker room or any team meetings I would love to hear it. Please share the info.
This guy is airing dirty laundry Just like T.O did in Philly. And he was a STAR on that team that got them to the SB ( not that it justifies what he did ) But now Mr Ellis is poping off.HMMMMMMM please tell me how this is being a leader? Action speaks louder then WORDS my man

Do you know what you are talking about? How can you say Ellis is not a leader?

Don't mean to sound condencending but educate yourself:

http://cowboys.beloblog.com/archives/2007/06/spencer_wants_ellis_to_stay.html#comments
Spencer wants Ellis to stay


Greg Ellis hasn't taken his frustrations with his contract out on the kid who was drafted to replace him.
Quite the opposite, actually. Ellis has gone out of his way to help Anthony Spencer make the position switch Ellis made last season.
It's a common sight during OTA and minicamp practices to see Ellis pull Spencer off to the side. Spencer said he sits behind Ellis in every meeting and asks frequent questions. Ellis has yet to give anything but a polite, helpful answer.
"I'd love for him to be here," Spencer said. "I'm definitely looking forward to having him here all season helping me."
Ellis says he's just doing the same thing for Spencer that veterans (specifically Leon Lett) did for him as a rookie. He said it isn't Spencer's fault that the Cowboys aren't taking care of him, and that he hopes and expects the rookie will succeed.
"I've told the coaches, 'You've got a great outside linebacker,'" Ellis said, referring to Spencer. "You don't need me. What's the hold-up [in letting Ellis go]?"

 

[DallasEast]

http://www.***BANNED-URL***/sharedc...l/nfl/stories/053107dnspocowlede.382a534.html

1. With respect to Todd Archer, he is not an NFL source. He is a reporter for the Dallas Morning News.

2. For the players, height doesn't change. Weight does. I gave you the reported weight from an (the) NFL source. It was obtained at some point and is valid for that reason. Even the weights that the players themselves state to the media can be suspect since their weights will fluctuate throughout the season. For example, Ellis did not play at 275 the whole season. That's nuts. These are professional athletes that gain and loss weight during the course of a single game.

3. Are you really going to quibble over 5 lbs?

 

[PJCOWBOYS]

I agree. Leaders are the one's who stand up for the team before everything else. And before their own issues. Leaders are defined by what their teammates say about them. Marco Rivera is a leader. By the words of his teammates. They have nothing but praise for the guy. I haven't heard anything of the same towards Ellis. Wade Phillips seems to like him, but he is a new coach. If anyone has quotes of teammates or Parcells praising Ellis, please post them. I can't recall.

 

[Alexander]

The McGinest comparison is really close in terms of size and weight but it's my believe that Greg is (make that was) taller and heavier. Regardless, they are different body types. Greg does not have the body of a linebacker, IMO.

I will take the perceptions of Bill Parcells far more to heart than yours.

He answered this comparison last year when everyone was agreeing that Ellis simply could not do it because of the body type.

He was right. He compared him to McGinest. And the results play it out.

He does not have the body type for a traditional LB, that is true. But for a stereotypical 3-4 Parcells rush LB, he has a very desireable set of measureables. New England has taken ends like this and converted them each and every year.

It wasn't like Coach Parcells decided just to get daring and push a player into a role he didn't have the body for. McGinest was very similar and still is. Ellis was a good fit for that role.

 

[PJCOWBOYS]

So a rookie who has never played a down for the Cowboys and has never played alongside Ellis praised him. What about the guys who have actually played with Ellis or who actually know him. Where are their quotes of Ellis being such a great leader?

Do you know what you are talking about? How can you say Ellis is not a leader?

Don't mean to sound condencending but educate yourself:

http://cowboys.beloblog.com/archives/2007/06/spencer_wants_ellis_to_stay.html#comments
Spencer wants Ellis to stay


Greg Ellis hasn't taken his frustrations with his contract out on the kid who was drafted to replace him.
Quite the opposite, actually. Ellis has gone out of his way to help Anthony Spencer make the position switch Ellis made last season.
It's a common sight during OTA and minicamp practices to see Ellis pull Spencer off to the side. Spencer said he sits behind Ellis in every meeting and asks frequent questions. Ellis has yet to give anything but a polite, helpful answer.
"I'd love for him to be here," Spencer said. "I'm definitely looking forward to having him here all season helping me."
Ellis says he's just doing the same thing for Spencer that veterans (specifically Leon Lett) did for him as a rookie. He said it isn't Spencer's fault that the Cowboys aren't taking care of him, and that he hopes and expects the rookie will succeed.
"I've told the coaches, 'You've got a great outside linebacker,'" Ellis said, referring to Spencer. "You don't need me. What's the hold-up [in letting Ellis go]?"

 

[quincyyyyy]

1. With respect to Todd Archer, he is not an NFL source. He is a reporter for the Dallas Morning News.

2. For the players, height doesn't change. Weight does. I gave you the reported weight from an (the) NFL source. It was obtained at some point and is valid for that reason. Even the weights that the players themselves state to the media can be suspect since their weights will fluctuate throughout the season. For example, Ellis did not play at 275 the whole season. That's nuts. These are professional athletes that gain and loss weight during the course of a single game.

3. Are you really going to quibble over 5 lbs?

In regards to McGinest I originally said Ellis is slightly bigger than he is and I am proved my point. McGinest is also an anomaly at linebacker. And Alexander said Ellis didn't have to overcome anything. And I pointed out that Ellis is a huge LB and he had to overcome his body type to play OLB as well as he did last year.

Secondly Archer gets his numbers directly from the coaches, and he specified it to the 06 season which is the season in question. I am not sure how up to date/accurate NFL.com's records are but I trust the coaches more.

 

[Alexander]

When is the last time any NFL player has got a new contract when the sole basis was the fact they were a "leader"?

The NFL is full of backup QBs that are "leaders".

Players like Jason Garrett mentored players that earned more money for years. Did Jason deserve a raise for that?

I think this bears asking.

Again.