Vela: Maybe Ellis is right?

[ilovejerry]

Do you know what you are talking about? How can you say Ellis is not a leader?

Don't mean to sound condencending but educate yourself:

http://cowboys.beloblog.com/archives/2007/06/spencer_wants_ellis_to_stay.html#comments
Spencer wants Ellis to stay


Greg Ellis hasn't taken his frustrations with his contract out on the kid who was drafted to replace him.
Quite the opposite, actually. Ellis has gone out of his way to help Anthony Spencer make the position switch Ellis made last season.
It's a common sight during OTA and minicamp practices to see Ellis pull Spencer off to the side. Spencer said he sits behind Ellis in every meeting and asks frequent questions. Ellis has yet to give anything but a polite, helpful answer.
"I'd love for him to be here," Spencer said. "I'm definitely looking forward to having him here all season helping me."
Ellis says he's just doing the same thing for Spencer that veterans (specifically Leon Lett) did for him as a rookie. He said it isn't Spencer's fault that the Cowboys aren't taking care of him, and that he hopes and expects the rookie will succeed.
"I've told the coaches, 'You've got a great outside linebacker,'" Ellis said, referring to Spencer. "You don't need me. What's the hold-up [in letting Ellis go]?"

Oh yes, Im mistaken that makes him a leader. Because he is doing what Veterns on there way out are supposed to do. You are making excuses for this guy That's what makes me sick about this leauge, This is a TEAM sport, Dont give this guy credit for doing what he IS supposed to do. I think Chris Rock said it best. When he talked about how Fathers should get credit for doing WHAT there expected to do !
This guy loses all crediability with me and from what I gather most Cowboy fans on here. Dont go to the media, Emmitt didnt do this when he wanted more ( deserving ) money.

 

[theogt]

I will take the perceptions of Bill Parcells far more to heart than yours.

He answered this comparison last year when everyone was agreeing that Ellis simply could not do it because of the body type.

He was right. He compared him to McGinest. And the results play it out.

He was probably referring to size and weight, which I've already said is a fair comparison because they're very close.

He does not have the body type for a traditional LB, that is true. But for a stereotypical 3-4 Parcells rush LB, he has a very desireable set of measureables. New England has taken ends like this and converted them each and every year.

I agree. I don't mind him at LB. In a 3-4 that's his best position at the moment. I don't want him going anywhere, but if he did leave, he wouldn't be a linebacker wherever he went.

It wasn't like Coach Parcells decided just to get daring and push a player into a role he didn't have the body for. McGinest was very similar and still is. Ellis was a good fit for that role.

Like I said, I didn't say it wasn't a fair comparison. They're really close in terms of height and weight. Ellis is/was taller and bigger, however, and McGinest is already considered bigger than normal, even for a 3-4 OLB. Ellis really pushed the boundaries in '06.

 

[quincyyyyy]

So a rookie who has never played a down for the Cowboys and has never played alongside Ellis praised him. What about the guys who have actually played with Ellis or who actually know him. Where are their quotes of Ellis being such a great leader?

Wade Phillips Presser yesterday:

What about Ellis’ latest comments?
Things like that always comes up in football, I’ve seen it before, but it’s between the GM and the player, as a coach I’m not involved in contracts. Usually these things work out, especially with good people involved. Ellis is a great guy, has a top-notch character, things will work out. As a coach I want him to play.

 

[PJCOWBOYS]

I said players who have played with Ellis before. Not a rookie, and not a new coach. Give me Parcell's quotes or players who know Ellis.

Wade Phillips Presser yesterday:

What about Ellis’ latest comments?
Things like that always comes up in football, I’ve seen it before, but it’s between the GM and the player, as a coach I’m not involved in contracts. Usually these things work out, especially with good people involved. Ellis is a great guy, has a top-notch character, things will work out. As a coach I want him to play.

 

[Alexander]

And Alexander said Ellis didn't have to overcome anything.

I did?

Where?

All I said is that Ware had to overcome double teams and you challenged that.

I even tried to reiterate your error here:

I never said he didn't. He did a pretty decent job last year actually.

But I don't think he deserves a raise. Had he finally finished the year strong and not been injured, perhaps. But he did not. Too bad, so sad.

But you continue.

Secondly Archer gets his numbers directly from the coaches, and he specified it to the 06 season which is the season in question. I am not sure how up to date/accurate NFL.com's records are but I trust the coaches more.

So do you trust Coach Parcells who assured everyone, including Ellis himself, that his size was not a challenge, but an asset?

Or do you just pick and choose what coaches you listen to and when you listen to them?

 

[quincyyyyy]

I think this bears asking.

Again.

The point I am making is not whether we should cave into his demands, I don't. I am saying bashing him is not appropriate for all he has done for the team over the year, despite his recent complaining to the media. I think he has deserved our forgiveness with his play and leadership.

 

[DallasEast]

In regards to McGinest I originally said Ellis is slightly bigger than he is and I am proved my point. McGinest is also an anomaly at linebacker. And Alexander said Ellis didn't have to overcome anything. And I pointed out that Ellis is a huge LB and he had to overcome his body type to play OLB as well as he did last year.

Secondly Archer gets his numbers directly from the coaches, and he specified it to the 06 season which is the season in question. I am not sure how up to date/accurate NFL.com's records are but I trust the coaches more.

So, basically, Ellis played the entire '06 season at 275 lbs. Gotcha.

 

[ilovejerry]

Wade Phillips Presser yesterday:

What about Ellis’ latest comments?
Things like that always comes up in football, I’ve seen it before, but it’s between the GM and the player, as a coach I’m not involved in contracts. Usually these things work out, especially with good people involved. Ellis is a great guy, has a top-notch character, things will work out. As a coach I want him to play.

That is the worst retort EVER !!! You are all over the map on this. Anyways I understand you like GE, You must be a family member, But My allegiance is the Star and thats it, You bring up the last 10 years, He will be forgotten.

 

[Alexander]

Give me Parcell's quotes or players who know Ellis.

Oh no.

Not Parcells. He was evil, stupid and didn't have Greg's best interests at heart.

 

[PJCOWBOYS]

Does this hold the same for Julius (who you seem to disdain) and ALL Cowboys players who act like Ellis off the field?

The point I am making is not whether we should cave into his demands, I don't. I am saying bashing him is not appropriate for all he has done for the team over the year, despite his recent complaining to the media. I think he has deserved our forgiveness with his play and leadership.

 

[DallasEast]

Wade Phillips Presser yesterday:

What about Ellis’ latest comments?
Things like that always comes up in football, I’ve seen it before, but it’s between the GM and the player, as a coach I’m not involved in contracts. Usually these things work out, especially with good people involved. Ellis is a great guy, has a top-notch character, things will work out. As a coach I want him to play.

Phillips omitted saying that Ellis is a whiner, probably because he hasn't personally known him very long.

 

[quincyyyyy]

So do you trust Coach Parcells who assured everyone, including Ellis himself, that his size was not a challenge, but an asset?

Or do you just pick and choose what coaches you listen to and when you listen to them?

Parcells opinion on his size had nothing to do with the point I was making. All I wanted was the exact weight.

And I don't care where you are from 6-6 275 is a huge linebacker.

 

[theogt]

So, basically, Ellis played the entire '06 season at 275 lbs. Gotcha.

He's reportedly at 265 right now, and he looks about 10-15 pounds lighter than '06. He trimmed down because (1) Wade wanted him to, and (2) to help his recovery.

I'd say 275-280 is about right for '06.

 

[quincyyyyy]

Does this hold the same for Julius (who you seem to disdain) and ALL Cowboys players who act like Ellis off the field?

Julius is not a leader off the field like Ellis is, despite his discontent over his contract situation, nor is Julius a consistently good player like Ellis.

 

[Alexander]

I think he has deserved our forgiveness with his play and leadership.

I value results more than acts of altruism and kindness.

For example, I like what Rivera did here, but when he couldn't produce, he needed to go.

Per your sound logic, we should allow Rivera to stay and pay him his contract because he was such a solid person and mentor to all the young ones.

Rivera is an example of what you are speaking of. I respect him. He even offered to give back a part of his bonus when it didn't appear he could live up to it. Ellis has irrationally demanded more money. See the difference?

You also have bashed Jones for some absurd reason, yet feel justified. Very strange.

I do not respect Ellis nor will I give him a pass. It will not happen.

 

[DallasEast]

He's reportedly at 265 right now, and he looks about 10-15 pounds lighter than '06. He trimmed down because (1) Wade wanted him to, and (2) to help his recovery.

I'd say 275-280 is about right for '06.

It could've easily have been 270-280 also. Just saying.

 

[Alexander]

Parcells opinion on his size had nothing to do with the point I was making. All I wanted was the exact weight.

And I don't care where you are from 6-6 275 is a huge linebacker.

You and Phoenix Talon should have children.

You both avoid direct questions, bring up extraneous information to avoid them and skirt the real issues when you are proven wrong.

 

[theogt]

I said players who have played with Ellis before. Not a rookie, and not a new coach. Give me Parcell's quotes or players who know Ellis.

Wait, so a rookie's opinion as to who a leader is in the program isn't noteworthy? Who are these leaders supposed to be leading? Obviously not the rookies.

Regardless, he's given you two quotes and you just shoot them down because they don't fit your argument. I'm sure if he posted a quote from a veteran teammate, you'd just say, "What else is he supposed to say, he's his teammate right?"

 

[quincyyyyy]

I value results more than acts of altruism and kindness.

For example, I like what Rivera did here, but when he couldn't produce, he needed to go.

So you are saying Ellis doesnt produce on the field?

 

[theogt]

It could've easily have been 270-280 also. Just saying.

He lost much more than 5 pounds.