Vick's holding out for one year

Concord

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Details of Vick plea agreement will impact NFL future

By Lester Munson

ESPN.com

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=munson_lester&id=2983319

On Monday afternoon, NFL star Michael Vick agreed to admit his guilt in a dogfighting and gambling scheme. Billy Martin, Vick's lead attorney, announced Vick's decision as a federal grand jury in Richmond, Va., was preparing additional charges against the Atlanta Falcons' quarterback. Vick's admission of guilt, as well as the timing of it, raises questions. Here are some answers:


Why did Michael Vick enter into an agreement to plead guilty?

In strictly legal terms, this is an agreement by Vick. In the bigger picture, it's a surrender. Vick is admitting his guilt because he and his legal team realized that there is no escape from the charges related to the federal dogfighting case. They wanted to negotiate with federal prosecutors, and they wanted to negotiate with the NFL. Instead of a negotiation from the prosecutors, Vick and his lawyers kept receiving bad news from them. That trend would have continued with additional charges being filed if Vick's legal team had not given up the fight on Monday afternoon. Instead of a negotiation with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell about the manner in which the league intended to punish Vick, Vick and his legal team received a cold shoulder. When they could not negotiate, they had no alternative. They had to surrender.

If the federal case against Vick is so overwhelming, why would the federal prosecutors agree to accept Vick's plea of guilty?

The job of a federal prosecutor is to seek justice, not to seek revenge or punishment. Whenever an accused individual is willing to admit guilt and accept the consequences, federal prosecutors are interested. A guilty plea brings the case to a final conclusion. It saves hundreds of thousands of dollars in trial preparation, and it avoids any chance something could go wrong in the trial that would allow a guilty defendant to go free. In the dogfighting case, it was important to the prosecution team that Vick admit he was doing wrong. It is a major step forward in a national effort to eliminate dogfighting.

Vick will appear in court again on Aug. 27. What should we watch for?

Vick and the government prosecutors will file papers that give the details of Vick's admissions. The factual details in those papers will be critical. Will Vick admit that in March 2003, he helped Quanis Phillips, one of his co-defendants, hose down a losing dog and then electrocute it? Will he admit that he helped execute eight more dogs in 2004 and 2005, some by hanging, some by drowning and one by slamming it on the ground until it was dead? Will he admit that it was his money that was used in the purses and the side bets in the dogfights described by his cohorts? If he admits a personal role in the execution of dogs and a lead role in the gambling enterprise, he might never return to the NFL. Goodell and NFL officials will scrutinize these papers as they decide what should be done with Vick.

In addition to the details disclosed in the paperwork, watch next Monday for Judge Henry Hudson to set a date for Vick's sentencing. In most federal courthouses, the sentencing comes at least several months after the guilty plea; but in the "rocket docket" procedures that prevail in Richmond, the sentencing will probably come more quickly, perhaps as early as October. Judge Hudson must also determine whether to sentence Vick's co-defendants before he sentences Vick. Tony Taylor, the first of Vick's cohorts to plead guilty and agree to testify against Vick, was to be sentenced on Dec. 14, after he testified at Vick's trial (which had been set for late November). That scheduling was an obvious incentive for Taylor to testify effectively against Vick. But now, with Vick's admission of guilt and the trial off the docket, Judge Hudson may move the date of Taylor's sentencing up, and sentence all three of Vick's co-defendants, including Quanis Phillips and Purnell Peace, before he sentences Vick. All three will be entitled to consideration for leniency because they admitted their guilt and promised to help the federal prosecutors in their case against Vick.

How much time will Vick spend in jail?

Previous reports indicate that the government wanted Vick to spend between 18 and 36 months in a federal penitentiary. Other reports say it could be between 12 and 18. Before the judge issues a sentence, Vick must submit to an investigation by federal probation authorities. Probation officers will investigate his life in painstaking detail, including the dogfighting enterprise. These pre-sentence reports are kept secret and submitted only to the sentencing judge. The report will include a recommendation on a sentence. Judge Henry Hudson will consider the report's conclusions as he sentences Vick. Hudson has been tough when it comes to sentences. He uses the word "maximum" more often than he uses the words "minimum" or "probation." If Vick cannot convince Hudson that he can be a good citizen, Vick will be doing 24 months or more.

Why did Vick wait until Monday to admit his guilt?

This investigation is not even three months old. It has progressed with incredible speed. The first raid on Vick's 15-acre compound came on April 25. Agents of the U.S. Department of Agriculture quickly entered the investigation and took it over. They have quickly put together an extraordinary amount of high-quality evidence. Until the raid, Vick was living a life of celebrity and success. It must have been very difficult for him to make the adjustments necessary to realize he was in serious trouble and on his way to jail. Not long ago, he was telling Goodell personally that he was not guilty of anything. Today, he surrenders. So his plea of guilty is not late. In fact, it comes earlier than anyone could have imagined.

Are there any winners in this terrible story?

Yes. The winners are the investigating agents, the federal prosecutors and the humane societies. I have never seen an investigation in the sports industry that was done so quickly and so professionally. The only possible comparison is to the virtuoso work of Greg Garrison, the Indianapolis attorney who prepared and tried the rape case against former heavyweight champion Mike Tyson, which led to Tyson's conviction and three years in prison. In most cases against celebrity athletes, the athlete has most of the advantages: better investigators, better lawyers and more money. Vick had the money and the lawyers, but he never caught up with the investigators and prosecutors in Virginia.

The local prosecutor in Surry County, Va., where Vick built his dogfighting compound, says he will now take action against Vick. What can he do to Vick that the federal authorities haven't already done?

Gerald Poindexter, the local prosecutor, can huff and puff and seek attention, but that's about it. Vick need not worry much about Poindexter. The federal authorities have the seven witnesses, the financial records, the e-mails and all the other evidence. Poindexter can charge Vick with dogfighting under a Virginia law that makes it a felony, but any punishment the player might serve on that charge would be done at the same time Vick is serving his federal sentence. Poindexter appears to be a bit embarrassed that the feds took over an investigation that he had started, and so whatever action he ultimately takes might be motivated, at least in part, by a desire to save face.

Lester Munson, a Chicago lawyer and journalist who has been reporting on investigative and legal issues in the sports industry for 18 years, is a senior writer for ESPN.com.
 

burmafrd

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The silence is deafening from those that claimed Vick was innocent; or thought that he could beat the rap. I can see how non lawyer types could fail to grasp the difference between the goon Nifong and a professional; between state and local vs Federal; but as I recall some of the so called lawyer types were bleating some of the same BS.
 

peplaw06

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burmafrd;1597473 said:
The silence is deafening from those that claimed Vick was innocent; or thought that he could beat the rap. I can see how non lawyer types could fail to grasp the difference between the goon Nifong and a professional; between state and local vs Federal; but as I recall some of the so called lawyer types were bleating some of the same BS.
I assume you're talking about people, such as myself... no matter how much of your post is a figment of your imagination.

Side note: is your handle short for burmafrodite?
 

iceberg

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burmafrd;1597473 said:
The silence is deafening from those that claimed Vick was innocent; or thought that he could beat the rap. I can see how non lawyer types could fail to grasp the difference between the goon Nifong and a professional; between state and local vs Federal; but as I recall some of the so called lawyer types were bleating some of the same BS.

i don't recall a lot of people saying vick was innocent. i *do* recall people like fuzzy saying that he's NOT GUILTY *yet*. i jumped the gun in rare fashion for me but like i said, one of my friends knew vick personally and did some work for him to even get a dog. i knew vick was lying (or my friend was back at the time when there was no reason to) so i hated him for that and couldn't wait till it all came out.

that said i do know of and whine a LOT about people who say one thing and people hear the extreme of that, so - again i don't recall a whole lot of innocent talk but i do recall a lot of "guilty till proven innocent" and isn't that the way it's supposed to be?

but that said, now that over YES! go directly to jail vick and let's get on with life and you play hard to get at the next dance.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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burmafrd;1597473 said:
The silence is deafening from those that claimed Vick was innocent; or thought that he could beat the rap. I can see how non lawyer types could fail to grasp the difference between the goon Nifong and a professional; between state and local vs Federal; but as I recall some of the so called lawyer types were bleating some of the same BS.

I said i would consider him innocent until proven guilty and i stand by that ethic even if youre not.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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iceberg;1597480 said:
i don't recall a lot of people saying vick was innocent. i *do* recall people like fuzzy saying that he's NOT GUILTY *yet*. i jumped the gun in rare fashion for me but like i said, one of my friends knew vick personally and did some work for him to even get a dog. i knew vick was lying (or my friend was back at the time when there was no reason to) so i hated him for that and couldn't wait till it all came out.

that said i do know of and whine a LOT about people who say one thing and people hear the extreme of that, so - again i don't recall a whole lot of innocent talk but i do recall a lot of "guilty till proven innocent" and isn't that the way it's supposed to be?

but that said, now that over YES! go directly to jail vick and let's get on with life and you play hard to get at the next dance.

I have no issues with prosecutors doing their job. What i do have an issue is with a certain culture forcing its views on a particular animal on another culture especially when said culture actively pursues in rodeos and trophy hunting. Just becasue one culture views looks at one animal as pet is no excuse for condemning another culture calling it sport.

our cultural arrogance is astounding.
 

Concord

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FuzzyLumpkins;1597580 said:
I said i would consider him innocent until proven guilty and i stand by that ethic even if youre not.

He's Guilty just like people said from the start...Get over it and move on.
 

HopeCowboyFan

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I on all facts represented felt Vick was toast. But felt a real need to let due process do its course. You just can't start suspending players on accusation alone. Henry, Pacman and Tank had a littany of offenses to warrant Goodells suspensions...

Goodell wisely let due process transpire here and he can now act on accordingly.
 

silverbear

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FuzzyLumpkins;1597580 said:
I said i would consider him innocent until proven guilty and i stand by that ethic even if youre not.

So, do you often let other people make your mind up for you??

I've said it before, I'll say it again-- "innocent until proven guilty" is for a court of law, not for the court of public opinion... I'm completely free to look at the known facts, and pass judgement... so are you...

And lo and behold, my early rush to judgement has proven accurate... this is the kind of thing that you too can do, if you bother to look at all the known facts, and then decide for yourself...

I guess you now believe that OJ was innocent too, since your ultimate standard seems to be the judgement of the court... this implies that you believe the court system is infallible; surely you're not THAT naive, are you??

Thinking for yourself, it's a wonderful thing... you really oughta give it a try some time...
 

silverbear

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FuzzyLumpkins;1597588 said:
I have no issues with prosecutors doing their job. What i do have an issue is

What makes you think any of us really cares about what you might have an issue with??

Seems that arrogance is all around us, LOL...
 

Bob Sacamano

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Jay-D;1597417 said:
The arguement is that every person jumping on Vick's back about killing dogs had better be a serious, practicing vegetarian, because if they are not, they are a raging hypocrite.

no, because noone eats the carcasses of losing dogs

Jay-D said:
I don't like to see dogs fight and I think Vick did a stupid thing......but I'm not gonna crow about how terrible of a person he is because I like my meat products, and I know that for EVERY SINGLE HAMBURGER OR STEAK that I eat, some cow somewhere died a death just as heartless and cruel and horrible as anything any of Vick's dogs went through......and just because I like steak. Not because I need it or because I make money from it.....just because it tastes good and brings me pleasure.

I bet every single one of us here on this board has ATE the results of the horrible death of thousands of innocent animals.......and yet we all sleep soundly at night.

Fighting dogs is bad and it's against the law....but alot of people need to take a serious look at thier own behavior before condemning another man's behavior.

again, comparing the 2 is ridiculous, dog-fighting serves no benefit while slaughtering cows gives people sustenance
 

Bob Sacamano

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superpunk;1597413 said:
You don't even know what my stance is - but you've declared it pointless anyway.

Great dialogue.

dog-fighting is illegal

slaughtering cows isn't

game over
 

Big Dakota

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Jay-D;1597417 said:
The arguement is that every person jumping on Vick's back about killing dogs had better be a serious, practicing vegetarian, because if they are not, they are a raging hypocrite.

Personally, I don't like hypocrites.....and I strive not to be one. In my book a hypocrite is worse than a person who fights dogs.

I don't like to see dogs fight and I think Vick did a stupid thing......but I'm not gonna crow about how terrible of a person he is because I like my meat products, and I know that for EVERY SINGLE HAMBURGER OR STEAK that I eat, some cow somewhere died a death just as heartless and cruel and horrible as anything any of Vick's dogs went through......and just because I like steak. Not because I need it or because I make money from it.....just because it tastes good and brings me pleasure.

I bet every single one of us here on this board has ATE the results of the horrible death of thousands of innocent animals.......and yet we all sleep soundly at night.

Fighting dogs is bad and it's against the law....but alot of people need to take a serious look at thier own behavior before condemning another man's behavior.

So in your mind i suppose if i continue to go to a catholic church, i'm a hypocrite and worse that a pedophile priest because i don't denonce the religion? Would it make it OK to eat cow if i denounce the slaughtering industry? If it makes you feel better, i denounce it as cruel.


But i get the feeling in your mind we are too stupid SO you in your great wisdom, are shining a light on it for us all, and this somehow makes you a better person? We are all either too dumb or hypocritical to know how cows are killed and you in your infinite wisdom are showing us the error of our ways? We are dirty evil people because we don't feel bad for the cow like you do, so we are worse than a dog fighter? My question is, how do you know how we feel about th cow? Maybe i get down on my knees every night for that cow? Now who's judging? In MY BOOK you're too chicken **** to call a vicious criminal by name, AND mr. holier than thou, it's people like you that look the other way and allow the Vicks of the world to exist. But we eat a burger and are worse than Vick. Thank GOD people like you are few and far between.

One last thing, i love how your ilk give yourselves an out by saying, "OBTW, i think Vick is wrong" YA, you got the bases coverd like Pontius Pilot. You should be proud of yourself.
 

jackrussell

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Doesn't matter what anyone thunked or when they thunkeded it.

The scumbag is going to jail. Too bad for you Vick arse kissers.
 

superpunk

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Bob Sacamano;1597741 said:
dog-fighting is illegal

slaughtering cows isn't

game over

Again - you have no idea what my stance is on this, yet you declare "game over." This must be why so many people love talking with you.
 

Faerluna

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Big D;1597209 said:
So after all of the hoopla and BS about Vick mistreating animals what do the animal rights organizations want to do ? You guessed it, Kill the dogs!



link

Yes I get the fact that these dog are too 'dangerous' to be maintained as pets but theres just something a little hypocritcal about all of this to me .

I once saw a man shoot into a crowd of city kids killing a friend of mine just missing me by a couple of feet. Because it was 'Gang-related' Mike Vick will do more time than he did.


Boo.

Sadly, when dogs are trained for fighting, they lose the ability to be social animals, and the risk is too great to put them into a normal home environment.

If they are fighting dogs, they will be humanely euthanized. Better that way than some torturous end they would have met with at some point in the future. It's not hypocritical, it's merciful.
 

superpunk

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Faerluna;1597877 said:
Sadly, when dogs are trained for fighting, they lose the ability to be social animals, and the risk is too great to put them into a normal home environment.

If they are fighting dogs, they will be humanely euthanized. Better that way than some torturous end they would have met with at some point in the future. It's not hypocritical, it's merciful.

I guess it's all about what we're comfortable with.

At the end of the day one dead dog is just as dead as another. If you wanted to (and I don't really want to) you could say that at least Vick's dogs have a chance to survive. ;)
 

Crown Royal

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It's funny to come into this thread and see the gung-ho "I hate vick he is a thug and guilty and blah blah blah" posters bleating, patting themselves on the back for a job well done.

But it's hilarious when they continue to pronounce their superiority to phantom posters who 'defended' vick's 'innocence,' calling them his 'supporters.' I can remember arguments about due process, suspension before conviction, innocence before proven guilty in a court of law, but I don't really remember anyone saying that they thought he would come out innocent and would be cleared of all charges.

Why do people get so emotionally invested in other people?
 

joseephuss

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Crown Royal;1598154 said:
It's funny to come into this thread and see the gung-ho "I hate vick he is a thug and guilty and blah blah blah" posters bleating, patting themselves on the back for a job well done.

But it's hilarious when they continue to pronounce their superiority to phantom posters who 'defended' vick's 'innocence,' calling them his 'supporters.' I can remember arguments about due process, suspension before conviction, innocence before proven guilty in a court of law, but I don't really remember anyone saying that they thought he would come out innocent and would be cleared of all charges.

Why do people get so emotionally invested in other people?

It is kind of comical.

I seem to remember reading a few posts on how Vick would not be able to plead out a deal. That he would be looking at 5 to 6 years minimum. Maybe I am remembering incorrectly. There have been so many Vick threads, it is difficult to remember everything. If he is getting anywhere from 12 to 36 months, then he may be getting the best out of the bad situation he put himself into. It could have gone much worse for him.
 

zrinkill

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This reminds me of hundreds of years ago when the rich nobles would be lead to the gallows or the giulatine ..... all the poor peasants would come out to revel and celebrate in their misery.

:lmao2:
 
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