VIDEO COMPARISON: The Phillips 3-4 vs The Parcells 3-4

[BouncingCheese]

Cool video.. Wow, I noticed on the first stunt against the steelers that H. Miller was open because of Phillips leaving to blitz ( I understand that is what happens when you blitz or stunt) but If a faster reciever was there and Big Ben was able to see it the reciever could have gashed the D.

 

[dmq]

Cool video.. Wow, I noticed on the first stunt against the steelers that H. Miller was open because of Phillips leaving to blitz ( I understand that is what happens when you blitz or stunt) but If a faster reciever was there and Big Ben was able to see it the reciever could have gashed the D.

True, but the key to a good blitz is to cause panic in a QB so that he doesn't even see the open receiver. That's why our slow to get to the QB blitzes left us frequently open to big plays. Its why Parcells didn't blitz much.

 

[BouncingCheese]

True, but the key to a good blitz is to cause panic in a QB so that he doesn't even see the open receiver. That's why our slow to get to the QB blitzes left us frequently open to big plays. Its why Parcells didn't blitz much.

Your right...My only concern is that our D-Line may not perform as well as SD's; and the defensive line is really key to the pressure more than the LB stunting. We are not the fastest team in the secondary, and if we are exposed when blitzing or stunting I really see that we could give up very large plays.... I mean honestly we were playing prevent defense late in the season (and honsetly most of the time we had a lead throughout IMO) and we still ended up giving big plays that could have been avoided were we a faster team.( BP loves those big, slow players; I wish he would have realized that this is not 1986 and alot of players are as fast at Lawrene Taylor nowadays)

 

[Everlastingxxx]

Thanks TEK, great job!

 

[superpunk]

The blitz disguise is terrible.

But that is clearly not going to fix everything.

Watch the videos again, and this time pick up on our defensive ends taking on a single lineman, and getting their arses kicked. This is an intriguing comparison, albeit a far from representative sample set - but you cannot ignore that when Spears and Canty were "allowed" to get up field, they could not. On the contrary, you see San Diego's linemen blowing their guys up and getting inside. Slanting the defensive linemen isn't some be-all end-all. The linemen need talent.

 

[AdamJT13]

when Spears and Canty were "allowed" to get up field

When was that?

 

[lurkercowboy]

Remember the old saying, live by the blitz and die by the blitz. It can cover up some weaknesses, but it has vulnerabilites as well. I don't want to see a blitz-happy defense that gives up a lot of big plays next year.

 

[theogt]

The blitz disguise is terrible.

But that is clearly not going to fix everything.

Watch the videos again, and this time pick up on our defensive ends taking on a single lineman, and getting their arses kicked. This is an intriguing comparison, albeit a far from representative sample set - but you cannot ignore that when Spears and Canty were "allowed" to get up field, they could not. On the contrary, you see San Diego's linemen blowing their guys up and getting inside. Slanting the defensive linemen isn't some be-all end-all. The linemen need talent.

I don't think that's true at all. But we could go in circles for hours on that and I've got work to do.

:leave:

 

[superpunk]

I don't think that's true at all. But we could go in circles for hours on that and I've got work to do.

:leave:

You're certainly free to watch that first play again.

 

[theogt]

You're certainly free to watch that first play again.

Looks like a 2-gap read and react assignment where they weren't "allowed" to just get up field. If you're required to allow the O-line to set up and take you head on man-to-man fully prepared, that's not exactly the situation we're talking about and it's certainly not conducive to the pass-rush.

It's that split second at the snap where a pass-rush can fail or succeed. If the D-line can beat the O-line before it gets set-up ready to block by just a milisecond, it can be more effective. That's the problem with 2-gap vs. 1-gap slanting.

Wade talked about this during the mini-camp. During the season Spears wouldn't use his athleticism/quickness to beat the blocker. That was because of the 2-gap assignment. That's what you're seeing in the first play.

 

[superpunk]

Looks like a 2-gap read and react assignment where they weren't "allowed" to just get up field. If you're required to allow the O-line to set up and take you head on man-to-man fully prepared, that's not exactly the situation we're talking about and it's certainly not conducive to the pass-rush.

It's that split second at the snap where a pass-rush can fail or succeed. If the D-line can beat the O-line before it gets set-up ready to block by just a milisecond, it can be more effective. That's the problem with 2-gap vs. 1-gap slanting.

Wade talked about this during the mini-camp. During the season Spears wouldn't use his athleticism/quickness to beat the blocker. That was because of the 2-gap assignment. That's what you're seeing in the first play.

No doubt that's part of it.

What you're also seeing in those clips is Marcus Spears and Chris Canty get absolutely stonewalled, even when they're going for it. My blind homerism tells me to excuse their lack of push, or pass rushing ability with "scheme", but the cycnic in me won't allow it. Their skills on display, just in those clips were so feeble that the Guards and Tackles taking them on expended what looks like minimal effort to keep them from pushing in. That can't be absolved with a fuzzy two-gap blanket.

 

[theogt]

No doubt that's part of it.

What you're also seeing in those clips is Marcus Spears and Chris Canty get absolutely stonewalled, even when they're going for it. My blind homerism tells me to excuse their lack of push, or pass rushing ability with "scheme", but the cycnic in me won't allow it. Their skills on display, just in those clips were so feeble that the Guards and Tackles taking them on expended what looks like minimal effort to keep them from pushing in. That can't be absolved with a fuzzy two-gap blanket.

Ware got stonewalled on that play by a tackle. He must suck too.

McNabb had 3-4 seconds to throw the ball -- holding it beyond that would have resulted in a sack. That's plenty of time for a QB to get the ball out but it's not like he was standing around unhindered for 4-6 seconds. Spears, Canty, and Ware all collapsed the pocket onto McNabb.

It was a play-action so it's not like they were going to be attempting a swim or spin-move to get to the QB. Overpowering the O-line was their only option on that play and they did exactly that -- they pushed the line into the QB. McNabb's a good QB. He drops back very far (very quickly) and gets the ball out quick when he makes a decision. If it had been numerous other QBs they might have folded instead of getting the dump-off out before the pocket collapsed onto them. In fact, that's exactly what happened on the 2nd play of teh Chargers video -- the QB folded instead of getting the ball out.

 

[Ben_n_austin]

Best thread of the entire off season.

It does contain more substance than most, eh?

 

[BouncingCheese]

No doubt that's part of it.

What you're also seeing in those clips is Marcus Spears and Chris Canty get absolutely stonewalled, even when they're going for it. My blind homerism tells me to excuse their lack of push, or pass rushing ability with "scheme", but the cycnic in me won't allow it. Their skills on display, just in those clips were so feeble that the Guards and Tackles taking them on expended what looks like minimal effort to keep them from pushing in. That can't be absolved with a fuzzy two-gap blanket.

Really good points.

I think the only thing that can save Spears is his athleticism in use in this scheme; I think he gets bullied around sometimes, but more often than not he takes plays off. If Spears can stay excited about this defense even if HE is not the one making plays and somebody else is, then hopefully he can keep his motor running high and become productive. I know Spears half-assed it because he knew he wasn't going to do anything exciting in this D. Hopefully that can change. Chris Canty is talented but needs to get his ish together.

I think we are going to miss Kenyon Coleman in this new D.

 

[theogt]

Really good points.

I think the only thing that can save Spears is his athleticism in use in this scheme; I think he gets bullied around sometimes, but more often than not he takes plays off. If Spears can stay excited about this defense even if HE is not the one making plays and somebody else is, then hopefully he can keep his motor running high and become productive. I know Spears half-assed it because he knew he wasn't going to do anything exciting in this D. Hopefully that can change. Chris Canty is talented but needs to get his ish together.

I think we are going to miss Kenyon Coleman in this new D.

It certainly looks that way in a 2-gap scheme.

 

[superpunk]

Ware got stonewalled on that play by a tackle. He must suck too.

He also notched 11 sacks on the way to a great year. Don't be so trivial, theo - that ain't you.

The pocket dropped back to where it needed to be and held it's ground. That was a scenario we saw all too much last year. I am certainly looking forward to more blitzing, as SD definitely did that more than us, and with better results.

 

[theogt]

He also notched 11 sacks on the way to a great year. Don't be so trivial, theo - that ain't you.

The pocket dropped back to where it needed to be and held it's ground. That was a scenario we saw all too much last year. I am certainly looking forward to more blitzing, as SD definitely did that more than us, and with better results.

Yeah, when I first saw this thread, I knew "this" would be a problem. You can't judge a scheme or a player by a few plays. But on a play-action pass with a 2-gap read and react scheme I think it's very hard to criticize the pass-rush on that 1st play.

 

[BouncingCheese]

It certainly looks that way in a 2-gap scheme.

The two-gap scheme means that it is the Linemans' responisbility to the gaps to his left and right should the running play come that way, correct?

If so, then I would be taking plays off if your only responisbility would be engage the lineman and then wait for the play to come to you.

That would be SOOOOOO booring to do if I was a lineman in this scheme... there is no action, only reaction, and on top of that you rarely get chances to attack the QB. Imagine Dwight Freeney almost exclusively being asked to rush the passer, and he only get a handful of sacks. Spears and the rest of our lineman had even fewer chances. I hope Spears was slacking off, because if he wasn't he was a bust.

 

[superpunk]

Yeah, when I first saw this thread, I knew "this" would be a problem. You can't judge a scheme or a player by a few plays. But on a play-action pass with a 2-gap read and react scheme I think it's very hard to criticize the pass-rush on that 1st play.

Did you ever really see anything different out of those two?

That would be SOOOOOO booring to do if I was a lineman in this scheme... there is no action, only reaction, and on top of that you rarely get chances to attack the QB. Imagine Dwight Freeney almost exclusively being asked to rush the passer, and he only get a handful of sacks. Spears and the rest of our lineman had even fewer chances. I hope Spears was slacking off, because if he wasn't he was a bust.

This is interesting line of thought.

No matter what he's asked to do, on the football field, shouldn't he be giving it his all? Idealism? Maybe. But he expressed a willingness to do anything when he was drafted, to take out the trash, as it were. Regardless of scheme, shouldn't you play the hell out of whatever it is you are asked to do?

 

[theogt]

Did you ever really see anything different out of those two?

It's hard to say. I haven't broken down every play and tried to make a guess of what the call was and given up a thumbs up or down or sideways on each player regarding pass-rush. That's largely a result of it being incredibly hard to tell sometimes whether it's a 2-gap or a 1-gap call. Sometimes its easy to tell and sometimes there's a grey area. I might do that this weekend. Regardless, Wade said he saw more "plays" outta Spears in this mini-camp than in all of 2006.

When does the season start again?