VIDEO COMPARISON: The Phillips 3-4 vs The Parcells 3-4

[TEK2000]

Cool video.. Wow, I noticed on the first stunt against the steelers that H. Miller was open because of Phillips leaving to blitz ( I understand that is what happens when you blitz or stunt) but If a faster reciever was there and Big Ben was able to see it the reciever could have gashed the D.

I see it a little differently BouncingCheese.

Miller is only open AFTER the ball is in the air.

He's actually double covered by the Safety and Corner until Big Ben launches the duck up into the air.

Nonetheless, when you blitz, you put more pressure on your secondary to cover in man to man. Its definitely a risk/reward situation. If you're going to blitz and get tricky with the DLine, there are going to be certain times when the blitz fails and you give up a play.

 

[superpunk]

It's hard to say. I haven't broken down every play and tried to make a guess of what the call was and given up a thumbs up or down or sideways on each player regarding pass-rush. That's largely a result of it being incredibly hard to tell sometimes whether it's a 2-gap or a 1-gap call. Sometimes its easy to tell and sometimes there's a grey area. I might do that this weekend. Regardless, Wade said he saw more "plays" outta Spears in this mini-camp than in all of 2006.

When does the season start again?

True enough. Hooray Spears and Canty!

 

[theogt]

I see it a little differently BouncingCheese.

Kinda hard to take a post seriously after reading this.

True enough. Hooray Spears and Canty!

Hooray pants!

 

[TEK2000]

Yeah, when I first saw this thread, I knew "this" would be a problem. You can't judge a scheme or a player by a few plays. But on a play-action pass with a 2-gap read and react scheme I think it's very hard to criticize the pass-rush on that 1st play.

My point of showing that play was for representation of what the 2006 Cowboys NORMALLY did when trying to attack the QB.
Send 4 rushers... the 3 down linemen and Ware (or Ellis).

My comparison between the 2 was merely to look at the SCHEME, not to judge the players.

(just wanted to make that clear)

 

[theogt]

My point of showing that play was for representation of what the 2006 Cowboys NORMALLY did when trying to attack the QB.
Send 4 rushers... the 3 down linemen and Ware (or Ellis).

My comparison between the 2 was merely to look at the SCHEME, not to judge the players.

(just wanted to make that clear)

Oh, I completely understand and agree that for the most part what you saw on those plays is what you saw on every other play.

 

[BouncingCheese]

I see it a little differently BouncingCheese.

Miller is only open AFTER the ball is in the air.

He's actually double covered by the Safety and Corner until Big Ben launches the duck up into the air.

Nonetheless, when you blitz, you put more pressure on your secondary to cover in man to man. Its definitely a risk/reward situation. If you're going to blitz and get tricky with the DLine, there are going to be certain times when the blitz fails and you give up a play.

That is my point; Miller is VERY slow; Imagine Santana Moss in his Millers' spot; he would have gotten open there in a jiffy... and the secondary was focused on covering the other wideout in the flat, which would be a problem considering that Phillips (or other defensive player, because Phillips is too slow to cover moss) was stunting and not in his conventional spot where he was supposed to cover. Moss or another fast reciever could gash the defense for yards or worse if a tackle is missed.

Purely conjecture, I know.

By the way great vids tek.

 

[Alexander]

My point of showing that play was for representation of what the 2006 Cowboys NORMALLY did when trying to attack the QB.
Send 4 rushers... the 3 down linemen and Ware (or Ellis).

My comparison between the 2 was merely to look at the SCHEME, not to judge the players.

(just wanted to make that clear)

I don't see how you cannot judge the players.

The problem was simple and Coach Parcells told the truth, the problem was the transition from run to pass mode. We just didn't have anyone who did it exceptionally well.

 

[InmanRoshi]

I thought the DL vs the run showed the most difference you can tell that all 3 down linemen are playing 2 gaps because the hit the line and stop so they can watch where the play develops to, this allowed Tiki to bump the play outside, something that seemed to happen a lot last season esp down the stretch. The Chargers didnt have to do this they just make the play come to them by breaking the line and getting after the runner, this means the OLB can still play a 2 gap and be responsible for the outside run but not have to be the main tackler on the play.

Given how the Chargers allowed a very mediocre 4.2 ypc while the Cowboys were among the league leaders only allowing 3.9, I hope we keep the old run defense.

 

[theogt]

I don't see how you cannot judge the players.

The problem was simple and Coach Parcells told the truth, the problem was the transition from run to pass mode. We just didn't have anyone who did it exceptionally well.

Does a person exist that can make the transition that well? And don't point out any player that has played under Bellicheck because he uses a mixture of 1-gap and 2-gap whereas Parcells uses a predominantly 2-gap system.

 

[superpunk]

Does a person exist that can make the transition that well? And don't point out any player that has played under Bellicheck because he uses a mixture of 1-gap and 2-gap whereas Parcells uses a predominantly 2-gap system.

Are you REALLY qualified to say how high a ratio Bellichick plays 2-gap to 1-gap? That's not a shot, but I doubt it.

 

[theogt]

Are you REALLY qualified to say how high a ratio Bellichick plays 2-gap to 1-gap? That's not a shot, but I doubt it.

Check out his playbooks. I've read through all that are publicly available because of this very issue. He uses both 1 and 2 gap and can even call the specific pass-rush move. It's far different from the overly-simplified scheme we see from a "Parcells/Zimmer" 3-4. You can also watch them play and tell it's not predominantly 2-gap.

Terry Glenn also stated recently that Parcells wasn't always as conservative as he was recently. The only thing different about then vs. now is that Belicheck was writing the playbooks and calling the plays. I might not be "qualified" but Glenn probably is.

 

[AdamJT13]

Terry Glenn also stated recently that Parcells wasn't always as conservative as he was recently.

Jason Ferguson said the defense Parcells used here was much more conservative than the one he used with the Jets.

 

[superpunk]

Check out his playbooks. I've read through all that are publicly available because of this very issue. He uses both 1 and 2 gap and can even call the specific pass-rush move. It's far different from the overly-simplified scheme we see from a "Parcells/Zimmer" 3-4. You can also watch them play and tell it's not predominantly 2-gap.

Terry Glenn also stated recently that Parcells wasn't always as conservative as he was recently. The only thing different about then vs. now is that Belicheck was writing the playbooks and calling the plays. I might not be "qualified" but Glenn probably is.

Sorry, theo. But none of that addresses any sort of ratio, how much a style was played or otherwise. You might be right, but he does play the 2 gap style, and so ruling out using any Patriots defensive linemen isn't fair. They're all better than ours, save maybe Wilfork - and they prove it on the field.

 

[slick325]

Great work Tek.

 

[theogt]

Sorry, theo. But none of that addresses any sort of ratio, how much a style was played or otherwise. You might be right, but he does play the 2 gap style, and so ruling out using any Patriots defensive linemen isn't fair. They're all better than ours, save maybe Wilfork - and they prove it on the field.

Right, but no one here is able to say that they use a predominantly 2-gap scheme, so you can't "rule them in" either. So.....back to square one.

 

[TEK2000]

I don't see how you cannot judge the players.

The problem was simple and Coach Parcells told the truth, the problem was the transition from run to pass mode. We just didn't have anyone who did it exceptionally well.

Its quite simple.

Take a few plays. Discuss what one team did on each play and then discuss what the other team did on each play.
Don't discuss HOW each PLAYER performed on each play.

 

[5Stars]

Jason Ferguson said the defense Parcells used here was much more conservative than the one he used with the Jets.

I wonder if that was because of Zimmer? Remember, he had to teach Zimmer how to run it first. He probably did not trust/or have the time to teach him all the concepts because of other team responsibilities.

Maybe that was why it was so vanilla?

Or, do you think that Parcells was just to stubborn to take chances?

 

[WoodysGirl]

Check out his playbooks. I've read through all that are publicly available because of this very issue. He uses both 1 and 2 gap and can even call the specific pass-rush move. It's far different from the overly-simplified scheme we see from a "Parcells/Zimmer" 3-4. You can also watch them play and tell it's not predominantly 2-gap.

Terry Glenn also stated recently that Parcells wasn't always as conservative as he was recently. The only thing different about then vs. now is that Belicheck was writing the playbooks and calling the plays. I might not be "qualified" but Glenn probably is.

Actually it was Aaron Glenn.

But Adam is also right when he says Fergie said it too. They both did.

 

[superpunk]

Right, but no one here is able to say that they use a predominantly 2-gap scheme, so you can't "rule them in" either. So.....back to square one.

They do play it.

So you can hardly rule them out of any discussion about transitioning well from run to pass, no matter how infrequently they do it.

 

[TEK2000]

Given how the Chargers allowed a very mediocre 4.2 ypc while the Cowboys were among the league leaders only allowing 3.9, I hope we keep the old run defense.

Chargers points allowed per game: 18.9 (ranked #7)
Cowboys points allowed per game: 21.9 (ranked #20)

Stopping the run is great... but it doesn't help much when the offense can pass at will on you.