Was Dak the best QB of the 2016 draft?

[garyo1954]

I was in washington at the time and the team wanted to move on from cousins, they didn't want to pay him a contract because they didn't think he was worth it, and they were looking for another QB. he got tagged because they had no better option at the time and he represented their best chance. they always thought he was average QB. their previous GM never really liked him, which led to his famous line "how do you like me now", when he threw a bunch of TDs against a depleted chicago defense (I think it was chicago) at the time........I believe after his second tag he wasn't traded, but just signed a contract with Minn, who were desperate for a QB after Favre. t

And the Washington Post just lied about everything.....
They made the whole story up to make you look bad?
They didn't REALLY cover the Commanders. They just wrote anything they wanted?

I'd believe you except this made national sports and was talked about almost every game.
Of course, you know better. You were probably Deep Throat that outed Nixon too.
Did you even read the article, or just decided to argue because you, and you alone, know the TRUE story?

Your choice. You know EVERYTHING, right?
LOL Yeah.......

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

The reason I chose 2016 is because Cousins was in a helluva mess in Washington and they were terrible too. Shanahan wasnt there long and the owner wanted RG3 and didnt want Cousins. The Vikings were a better comparison. Dak was put in a better situation than Cousin and Cousins took longer to develop along with he wanted out of Washington. As far as Cousins being in the league longer that makes no difference! Guys that win SB usually do it early in their careers unless their name is Brady! Dont forget the Vikings have always had a worse OLine and Cousins had to do more because of that. He didnt have the luxury that Dak had with all number one draft picks across the line.

so what's early in their careers? first contract? as many mention that as a measure....so these guys won it later in their careers....
Peyton Manning
Ben Roth
Nick Foles
Joe Flacco
Eli Manning
Aaron Rodgers
Brees
of course brady, but you conveniently excluded him....all won it after 6 years in the league

compared to the young ones like
Wilson
Mahomes

and that's where it pretty much ends with young QBs winning superbowls....

so lets spin what you mean early in their careers...... I am sure its coming.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

And the Washington Post just lied about everything.....
They made the whole story up to make you look bad?
They didn't REALLY cover the Commanders. They just wrote anything they wanted?

I'd believe you except this made national sports and was talked about almost every game.
Of course, you know better. You were probably Deep Throat that outed Nixon too.
Did you even read the article, or just decided to argue because you, and you alone, know the TRUE story?

Your choice. You know EVERYTHING, right?
LOL Yeah.......

it wasn't just washington post. it was all news outlets. I didn't read washington post.

you can believe what you want about Cousins...but washington really didn't care much about cousins. he wasn't the guy in the locker room and not well liked by his teammates or the coaches. he wanted to be put on a pedestal in DC and they just didn't do that. they wanted him to be better than he was and he took offense to that....

I don't know everything...but I am opinionated. I base my opinion on all facts, and change my opinion freely when I have new facts. I am never ashamed to say I was wrong (unlike some around here)...
you seem to act as the one who claims to know everything, then you point fingers. including at washington post...interesting approach.

your choice. your opinion.

 

[RonnieT24]

....and BOTH have a 1-2 career playoff record.

True.. but one guy has lost by a last second FG and by one score when his defense was giving up 270 yards on the ground. The other guy has lost by 17 twice. One guy has given his team a chance to win each time.. The other.. not so much. One defensive stop in either of the Cowboys losses and they likely win the game and move on. One defensive stop in either of Cousins' playoff losses and they still lose by double digits.. If one doesn't recognize the difference then there's really nothing I can do to help them understand.

 

[garyo1954]

it wasn't just washington post. it was all news outlets. I didn't read washington post.

you can believe what you want about Cousins...but washington really didn't care much about cousins. he wasn't the guy in the locker room and not well liked by his teammates or the coaches. he wanted to be put on a pedestal in DC and they just didn't do that. they wanted him to be better than he was and he took offense to that....

I don't know everything...but I am opinionated. I base my opinion on all facts, and change my opinion freely when I have new facts. I am never ashamed to say I was wrong (unlike some around here)...
you seem to act as the one who claims to know everything, then you point fingers. including at washington post...interesting approach.

your choice. your opinion.

Yeah, that's why they tagged him TWO years in a row!

You are definitely opinionated, but opinions aren't facts and sometimes aren't factually correct.
Got any new facts....not opinions......to refute he was tagged TWICE, and unwanted?

Would you say Dak was unwanted when he was tagged?
Would you say he was unwanted had he gotten a second tag?
Why tag a player if you don't want to keep him?
Have you even thought that through?

Your facts are getting weaker than a wet bounty towel holding BigMac after a light lunch!

 

[5Stars]

Of the first three QBs selected in the 2016 draft, only Dak is still with his original team, and he keeps being ranked as highly as in the top 5 of the league's quarterbacks. Meanwhile, the two guys selected before him, Jared Goff and Carson Wentz, are off to restart their careers with other teams. I guess it's possible that Wentz could prove himself great in Indy or that Goff could become a force in Detroit, but we'll have to wait to see what happens. At first it looked like Wentz was going to turn out to be the best. I saw him make some amazing throws, but something seemed to happen to him. He definitely regressed.

For me the big surprise was how bad Paxton Lynch played for the Broncos. He's who I wanted the Cowboys to draft, and Jerry was trying to. After the Zeke pick, Jerry tried unsuccessfully to trade up back into the first round to get Lynch, but the Broncos beat him out. Lynch played really well in college, and the evaluators ranked him highly. He looked like the guy to me. But he's been a journeyman backup, and I'm not even sure if he's even still in the league.

You just never know, I guess. I'd like to think that Jerry got the best QB of 2016 by being a genius, but I don't think that's true. He would have rather had Paxton Lynch at the time. But the Cowboys scouting team had done their homework well enough to realize that Dak had tremendous potential and was worth chancing a 4th-round pick on him.

It's bizarre how things work out. If the talent evaluators had been spot-on, Wentz and Goff would be at the top of the league right now with Lynch very close behind, and Dak would be a capable backup somewhere. It's weird how things work out.

Do you agree, though, that by now it's a done deal? Dak was the best QB picked in the 2016 draft?

Dak is the best QB to ever be drafted. lol

If Dak were to have been drafted by some other team he would not have gotten the treatment that he gets from the spotlight of the Cowboys.

Dak fell into a bucket of crap and came out smelling like a rose, and that flower has not bloomed.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Yeah, that's why they tagged him TWO years in a row!

You are definitely opinionated, but opinions aren't facts and sometimes aren't factually correct.
Got any new facts....not opinions......to refute he was tagged TWICE, and unwanted?

Would you say Dak was unwanted when he was tagged?
Would you say he was unwanted had he gotten a second tag?
Why tag a player if you don't want to keep him?
Have you even thought that through?

Your facts are getting weaker than a wet bounty towel holding BigMac after a light lunch!

they wanted him, but at a lower price than he was asking for...the original contract offer to him was about 20-22M, and he was asking for 28M and he got tagged for 24M....kind of in the middle..washington had no answer at QB at the time, knowing he gave them best chance to compete while they looked for their QB.......in the end, facts are they didn't reach and agreement. didn't pay him his price and cousins walked.....those are FACTS. if washington really wanted Cousins and thought of him as all that, they would have given him the contract he was demanding or close to it....

after the first tagged year, they tagged him again, based on his performance that year....and yet still weren't willing to pay his asking price....he got tagged again, his performance dipped. washington walked away and started to look else where....there were rumors at the time during the year with washington and some trade possibilities for their future QB.....

facts are, they couldnt' come to agreement after the second tag. again, not pay him what he was asking for.....if they valued him, they would have....

Dak was wanted and they worked out a contract after the first tag. the issue with the first contract negotiations wasn't the dollars, like in cousins case, it was the # of years...different negotiation issues. in fact, the longer years wanted by Dallas had more money in it. Reports where that Dak was ready to sign the contract last year and it just didn't happen in time........and the tag just bought them more time. both sides came to agreement quickly and dallas gave Dak more money than the year before and a contract structure he was happy with and give dallas flexibility for cap management.......

and sometimes you tag a player to buy more time for negotiations....and sometimes you are not willing to pay the asking price, which is clearly what happened to Cousins....if washington really wanted cousins, how come they didn't get to an agreement? go ahead. spin away.

you just like to argue. don't you?

and you claim to have the facts and accused Washington Post, one of the most respected news outlets in the country of just plain lying!!! this was your reasoning and logic to make your case.....interesting...I guess should trust you, a faceless argumentive poster on the internet message board, but hey Washington Post is nothing by a lying machine!!!! awsome..

 

[garyo1954]

So EVERYBODY lied to make you look bad?

How about Yahoo sports......

"One year ago, the Washington Commanders told Kirk Cousins to wait on a contract. Then they complained about his refusal of a team-friendly deal and having to pay Cousins $20 million in 2016 under the franchise tag. One year later? Cousins told the Commanders he wanted to wait. So in true Commanders fashion, on Monday the franchise released a grousing statement, bemoaning the lack of a team-friendly, long-term deal – sealing it with language seemingly meant to frame Cousins as greedy.
"Take it all in, folks. Because you may never see a franchise quarterback negotiation this screwed up again. One year ago, the Commanders smacked Cousins with a negotiating stick and expected him to like it. A year later, the franchise handed him the negotiating stick and then complained when he returned the favor.
"That’s what this all amounts to. The Commanders botched the Cousins talks once. Then twice. And president Bruce Allen topped it off with a statement that might as well have been written on the dirty diaper he filled up when talks failed."



I can find 1,293,073 more reasons that back up the fact that a team doesn't tag a player it doesn't like, or want, but read the whole article first......

https://sports.yahoo.com/Commanders-totally-botched-kirk-cousins-contract-debacle-235254094.html

 

[garyo1954]

The question remains:

Would you tag a player you didn't like or want?
Would you tag that player TWICE and threaten a third tag when he could make more in 3 years on tags than your contract would pay him in 6?

The answer is, "No I would not!" (if you need a hint)

 

[RonnieT24]

The question remains:

Would you tag a player you didn't like or want?
Would you tag that player TWICE and threaten a third tag when he could make more in 3 years on tags than your contract would pay him in 6?

The answer is, "No I would not!" (if you need a hint)

I think the best analogy for the Cousins situation is a couple dating for several years .. both kinda know they aint right to marry each other, but both are too selfish and insecure to just dump the other and have to be truly single until a better mate shows up. The Ratscums liked Cousins to a point, but knew they weren't going to get anywhere if they hitched their wagon to him long term. Cousins in turn got his panties in a wad over being tagged and refused to play ball with them once they had gone out and dated other chicks and come back to him to propose with a ring that wasn't big enough for him. Let's be real, the main reason they kept the tag in play is that they were hoping some team would be stupid enough to give them 2 #1s for him. They had no interest in keeping him beyond that first tag let alone a second. After 5 years with a losing record as a starter they had seen enough. They tried for two years to sucker somebody into giving them 2 #1 picks for him. Nobody fell for it so they let him become an UFA off to Minneapolis he went.

So to answer you question as to why a team would tag a player you didn't like or want? Simple.. because if you tag him you can make him a bargaining chip in pursuit of a player you DO like and want.

 

[quickccc]

Of the first three QBs selected in the 2016 draft, only Dak is still with his original team, and he keeps being ranked as highly as in the top 5 of the league's quarterbacks. Meanwhile, the two guys selected before him, Jared Goff and Carson Wentz, are off to restart their careers with other teams. I guess it's possible that Wentz could prove himself great in Indy or that Goff could become a force in Detroit, but we'll have to wait to see what happens. At first it looked like Wentz was going to turn out to be the best. I saw him make some amazing throws, but something seemed to happen to him. He definitely regressed.

For me the big surprise was how bad Paxton Lynch played for the Broncos. He's who I wanted the Cowboys to draft, and Jerry was trying to. After the Zeke pick, Jerry tried unsuccessfully to trade up back into the first round to get Lynch, but the Broncos beat him out. Lynch played really well in college, and the evaluators ranked him highly. He looked like the guy to me. But he's been a journeyman backup, and I'm not even sure if he's even still in the league.

You just never know, I guess. I'd like to think that Jerry got the best QB of 2016 by being a genius, but I don't think that's true. He would have rather had Paxton Lynch at the time. But the Cowboys scouting team had done their homework well enough to realize that Dak had tremendous potential and was worth chancing a 4th-round pick on him.

It's bizarre how things work out. If the talent evaluators had been spot-on, Wentz and Goff would be at the top of the league right now with Lynch very close behind, and Dak would be a capable backup somewhere. It's weird how things work out.

Do you agree, though, that by now it's a done deal? Dak was the best QB picked in the 2016 draft?

Yes, once it’s all fanned out, … combined with how marvelously Dak has improved and progressed as a pure passer too.
There’s no question that Dak has emerged as the best QB of that 2016 draft class.

- And not just that, but not only did the Cowboys pursue a trade for Payton Lynch who immediately became a bust, but Cowboys were also interested in bust Raiders QB Conner Cook who I believe Raiders traded up ahead of Cowboys to pick Cook.
Prescott wasn’t even the first of the Cowboys two 4th round picks. Even long forgotten DE Charles Tapper was drafted ahead of Dak.

- And further considering how both Wentz and Goff who both were drafted significantly higher at the top of the 2016 draft, have completely faltered with their original teams, and their game and self confidence has completely been sapped, even with respective SB caliber HC’s.

- There are so very rare teams that very, very rarely luck out with surprised gem franchise QBs for years to come: ala Brady with NE,.. Russell with Seattle..
We are one of those very lucky, very rare cases with discovering and having Prescott as one of those invaluable, surprised gems ..!!

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

So EVERYBODY lied to make you look bad?

How about Yahoo sports......

"One year ago, the Washington Commanders told Kirk Cousins to wait on a contract. Then they complained about his refusal of a team-friendly deal and having to pay Cousins $20 million in 2016 under the franchise tag. One year later? Cousins told the Commanders he wanted to wait. So in true Commanders fashion, on Monday the franchise released a grousing statement, bemoaning the lack of a team-friendly, long-term deal – sealing it with language seemingly meant to frame Cousins as greedy.
"Take it all in, folks. Because you may never see a franchise quarterback negotiation this screwed up again. One year ago, the Commanders smacked Cousins with a negotiating stick and expected him to like it. A year later, the franchise handed him the negotiating stick and then complained when he returned the favor.
"That’s what this all amounts to. The Commanders botched the Cousins talks once. Then twice. And president Bruce Allen topped it off with a statement that might as well have been written on the dirty diaper he filled up when talks failed."



I can find 1,293,073 more reasons that back up the fact that a team doesn't tag a player it doesn't like, or want, but read the whole article first......

https://sports.yahoo.com/Commanders-totally-botched-kirk-cousins-contract-debacle-235254094.html

oh, thanks for making my case...so the fact is that Washington didn't want Cousins for his asking price? and Cousins didn't want washington because his feeling got hurt...is that it?

so what's your problem? the fact is deals didn't get done. if they truly wanted to, it would have happened...again. it didn't. neither side wanted it.... and they pointed fingers at each other and walked away....

you don't think tough negotiations have ever happened before? and they don't kiss and make up and act all happy afterwards...geez dude.....

seriously...what are you arguing any more...like I said....you just want to argue. facts are that cousins is not in washington and went to Minn. that shows you how much washington valued him and wanted him.....the marriage broke off because of a million dollars or so per year...

go find the 1,293,073 more reasons...and I have 1,293,074 reasons that when contract talks fail and the team doesn't sign a player for his asking price, they don't really didn't want him. franchise tag or not. otherwise they would get the deal done.

and cousins and his fragile feelings are/were one of the reasons he wasn't well liked in washington......

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

The question remains:

Would you tag a player you didn't like or want?
Would you tag that player TWICE and threaten a third tag when he could make more in 3 years on tags than your contract would pay him in 6?

The answer is, "No I would not!" (if you need a hint)

threaten...vs. do... the fact remains it didn't get done. neither side wanted to reconcile. they both went their merry way.... cousins feelings were too fragile and that was one of the issues with people in washington....

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I think the best analogy for the Cousins situation is a couple dating for several years .. both kinda know they aint right to marry each other, but both are too selfish and insecure to just dump the other and have to be truly single until a better mate shows up. The Ratscums liked Cousins to a point, but knew they weren't going to get anywhere if they hitched their wagon to him long term. Cousins in turn got his panties in a wad over being tagged and refused to play ball with them once they had gone out and dated other chicks and come back to him to propose with a ring that wasn't big enough for him. Let's be real, the main reason they kept the tag in play is that they were hoping some team would be stupid enough to give them 2 #1s for him. They had no interest in keeping him beyond that first tag let alone a second. After 5 years with a losing record as a starter they had seen enough. They tried for two years to sucker somebody into giving them 2 #1 picks for him. Nobody fell for it so they let him become an UFA off to Minneapolis he went.

So to answer you question as to why a team would tag a player you didn't like or want? Simple.. because if you tag him you can make him a bargaining chip in pursuit of a player you DO like and want.

exactly. their GM really wasn't sold on Cousins....which again as I mentioned led to the infamous "how do you like me now" from Cousins after he beat a depleted defensive team (again, I think it was Chicago, but I could be wrong). they were looking to improve the position, knowing/convinced he wasn't the answer (which they were proven right so far) but they didn't have his replacement, so they used the tag to see what they can do, either trade, or find a better option. they really didn't want a "large" $ committment to a QB they really didn't believe in...

 

[garyo1954]

I think the best analogy for the Cousins situation is a couple dating for several years .. both kinda know they aint right to marry each other, but both are too selfish and insecure to just dump the other and have to be truly single until a better mate shows up. The Ratscums liked Cousins to a point, but knew they weren't going to get anywhere if they hitched their wagon to him long term. Cousins in turn got his panties in a wad over being tagged and refused to play ball with them once they had gone out and dated other chicks and come back to him to propose with a ring that wasn't big enough for him. Let's be real, the main reason they kept the tag in play is that they were hoping some team would be stupid enough to give them 2 #1s for him. They had no interest in keeping him beyond that first tag let alone a second. After 5 years with a losing record as a starter they had seen enough. They tried for two years to sucker somebody into giving them 2 #1 picks for him. Nobody fell for it so they let him become an UFA off to Minneapolis he went.

So to answer you question as to why a team would tag a player you didn't like or want? Simple.. because if you tag him you can make him a bargaining chip in pursuit of a player you DO like and want.

I like the dating analogy. Basically a love/hate relationship, makes sense.
Remember he was drafted in the fourth round to backup RGIII. Until 2015, he had only started 9 games.

In 2015 his first year as the starter they went 9-7. He threw for 4000 yards.
In 2016 they went 8-7-1. He threw for 4917 yards.
In 2017 they went 7-9, losing the last game of the season to the Giants. He threw for 4000 yards.
In 2018 he was in Minnesota.

So in three years as the Washington starter he was 24-23-1 and threw for 13,176 yards, 81 TDs, and 36ints.
He was ranked #94 of the top 100 players.

Its possible Washington kept him hoping to get 2 #1s, but in the end they received a compensatory 3rd pick.
That doesn't seem like a smart thing to do. But Dan Snyder, is anything, is obstinate so can't rule it out......

 

[RonnieT24]

exactly. their GM really wasn't sold on Cousins....which again as I mentioned led to the infamous "how do you like me now" from Cousins after he beat a depleted defensive team (again, I think it was Chicago, but I could be wrong). they were looking to improve the position, knowing/convinced he wasn't the answer (which they were proven right so far) but they didn't have his replacement, so they used the tag to see what they can do, either trade, or find a better option. they really didn't want a "large" $ committment to a QB they really didn't believe in...

The thing that's most hilarious about this argument is that Cousins is clearly better now in year 9-10 than he was early in his career.. Yet most of the Dak haters cannot stop themselves from declaring that Dak can never be any better than he already is. Cousins has become a good QB. Not great, not elite, but certainly good. He's a guy who can get it done if you give him time. What he can't do is move out of the pocket and buy time or take off and get you a critical first down at a crucial moment. He has a decent but not elite arm. He's a decent but not elite athlete. What he is NOT elite or even good at is being a leader. He showed himself to be kind of a biatch in Washington and has pretty much crumbled in the playoffs. And the Vikings best season in the past decade came the year BEFORE they signed him. With Case Keenum at QB.. He has great receivers, a great RB and a good offensive line.. but has managed to miss the playoffs 2 of his 3 seasons in Minny, including one when he had a top 5 defense backing him up. I do think Cousins can still get better ... but at age 32 he's getting close to his ceiling. Meanwhile Dak is 27 and is really just entering his prime and still has lots of room to grow. He's probably going to pass Cousins in whatever remaining categories he trails in over the next 2 years. If he doesn't, our team is going to be in a lotta trouble.

 

[RonnieT24]

I like the dating analogy. Basically a love/hate relationship, makes sense.
Remember he was drafted in the fourth round to backup RGIII. Until 2015, he had only started 9 games.

In 2015 his first year as the starter they went 9-7. He threw for 4000 yards.
In 2016 they went 8-7-1. He threw for 4917 yards.
In 2017 they went 7-9, losing the last game of the season to the Giants. He threw for 4000 yards.
In 2018 he was in Minnesota.

So in three years as the Washington starter he was 24-23-1 and threw for 13,176 yards, 81 TDs, and 36ints.
He was ranked #94 of the top 100 players.

Its possible Washington kept him hoping to get 2 #1s, but in the end they received a compensatory 3rd pick.
That doesn't seem like a smart thing to do. But Dan Snyder, is anything, is obstinate so can't rule it out......

Yeah I don't want to be perceived as painting Cousins as some sort of stumblebum. He's a quality NFL starter. Certainly he belongs in the top 20 to top 15 conversation. But if the Cowboys offered Dak to Minny for Cousins straight up how many nanoseconds would elapse before they said yes? I put the over/under at 5. And if we are comparing his years after he started to figure things out to Dak's entire career aren't we being a tad unfair? Cousins stunk up the joint for the most part in Washington until 2015. His numbers were god-awful especially considering he was playing in Shanahan's and then Gruden's WCO. An offense known to inflate the QB's numbers. I can't just act like those years never happened. Good on him for finally figuring things out to some extent in 2015. But save for Romo going down that's probably a losing season out of the playoffs for him too. Remember his only win against the Cowboys as a Commander came that year .. opposite Kellen Moore. Even after he started playing at a higher level he still went 0-4 against Dak and the Cowboys and was 0-2 against Romo. I'm sure that didn't endear him to the Skins' brass or the fans either for that matter.

 

[john van brocklin]

Of the first three QBs selected in the 2016 draft, only Dak is still with his original team, and he keeps being ranked as highly as in the top 5 of the league's quarterbacks. Meanwhile, the two guys selected before him, Jared Goff and Carson Wentz, are off to restart their careers with other teams. I guess it's possible that Wentz could prove himself great in Indy or that Goff could become a force in Detroit, but we'll have to wait to see what happens. At first it looked like Wentz was going to turn out to be the best. I saw him make some amazing throws, but something seemed to happen to him. He definitely regressed.

For me the big surprise was how bad Paxton Lynch played for the Broncos. He's who I wanted the Cowboys to draft, and Jerry was trying to. After the Zeke pick, Jerry tried unsuccessfully to trade up back into the first round to get Lynch, but the Broncos beat him out. Lynch played really well in college, and the evaluators ranked him highly. He looked like the guy to me. But he's been a journeyman backup, and I'm not even sure if he's even still in the league.

You just never know, I guess. I'd like to think that Jerry got the best QB of 2016 by being a genius, but I don't think that's true. He would have rather had Paxton Lynch at the time. But the Cowboys scouting team had done their homework well enough to realize that Dak had tremendous potential and was worth chancing a 4th-round pick on him.

It's bizarre how things work out. If the talent evaluators had been spot-on, Wentz and Goff would be at the top of the league right now with Lynch very close behind, and Dak would be a capable backup somewhere. It's weird how things work out.

Do you agree, though, that by now it's a done deal? Dak was the best QB picked in the 2016 draft?

Is there really even any doubt that he was?

 

[john van brocklin]

Is there really even any doubt that he was?

Even the haters have to admit that he was, it's pretty obvious.

 

[Captain-Crash]

yep, ole gimp foot wouldn't have been starting without two guys getting injured.
pure luck just like being drafted with a great running back and good offensive line. Gimp wouldn't even be heard of if not for luck. Put him on a crap team and he would be gone by now. Gimp on.