Was Dak the best QB of the 2016 draft?

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Apparently yards is the only stats that matters as a QB lol

no, its not, but if you like I can compare across the board.....its really easy you know...

we already did the total passing and rushing

completion percentage
Cousins: 67, Dak 66
avg per completion:
cousins 7.7, dak 7.7
TD
Cousins 27, dak 25
Interceptions
cousins 10, Dak 9
QB rating
Cousins 99.5 , Dak 97.25
QBR
cousins 60.6, Dak 68.65
Sacks
Cousins 33, Dak 33
Avg yds/attempt
Cousins 7.8, Dak 7.8

keeping in mind that Cousins is in his 10 year in the league and we are comparing his stats from year 6-10...and Dak from his rookie year to 2019.

so as the stats show, cousins, the veteran QB is not "clearly" better in passing stats, except that he sucks eggs at QBR, which tends to take into account game, game situation and all passing stats....

and to be fair, I am going to save this thread and throw it back out 4 years from now, comparing Dak's year 6-10 to cousins 6-10........you know just to compare apples to apples. so not sure how you feel about that....but we both know where that's going to end up. right?

it wouldn't be fair to compare cousins year 1-4 to Dak's year 1-4 since cousins couldn't keep the job once he got in. so there would be no comparison.

so tell me again where this is "clearly" better?

go ahead spin away

 

[RonnieT24]

"It's hard to find areas of the game that say Cousins is better than Dak. Yes he has better passing numbers"

Hey, how come you never responded to this gem that you said in your rant about how Dak is clearly better?

Again, you and them flawed made up formulas you use to ignore the stone cold numbers.

I didn't respond to this idiotic request because the formulas USE the "stone cold numbers." And ALL formulas are made up and not a one is perfect so I'm not sure I understand that aspect of your argument. Cousins has slightly better overall passing stats.. However as any Dak hater will tell you, stats mean nothing, it's about wins and losses right? And Dak wins at a much higher clip. Dak turns the ball over less. Dak is a better runner.. Dak has 1 less game winning drive in 42 fewer games.. He's simply a better football player.. If it's hard for you to read where I said Cousins has slightly better passing numbers I can't help you. However by and large they are volume numbers. He has more yards, completions, passing TDs, etc because he's played damn near twice as many games. It also bears starting that passing the ball is ONE aspect of a QB's job. You want to argue that Cousins is as good as Dak because of that ONE aspect of playing the game fine. You're entitled to your opinion. The overall numbers say you're wrong. The won-loss records say you're wrong.

If you need more evidence look at the career playoff performances.

Cousins has a career playoff passer rating of 86.6 while completing 62.1% of his passes in 4 games.
Prescott has a career playoff passer rating of 95.7 while completing 64.1% of his passes in 3 games.

So in the highest leveraged games against the best competition Dak is better even at PASSING the ball. I won't even bother to look at the discrepancy in the running game.. because we know how that would turn out.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

I quote you:
"...gap between Cosuins rushing stats compared to Dak is nowhere near as wide as the gap between Cousins passing stats compared to Dak....."

I can dig into all the other stats and do an over all comparison....but you seemingly didn't like that......

as I have said I take everything into account, not just a single stat...unlike what you have done in the past....

we both know what you said was clearly wrong....you tend to over exaggerate and round up where it suits your argument, and round down severely where it fits your arguments.

"Passing stats"

Does that only encompass yards?

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

no, its not, but if you like I can compare across the board.....its really easy you know...

we already did the total passing and rushing

completion percentage
Cousins: 67, Dak 66
avg per completion:
cousins 7.7, dak 7.7
TD
Cousins 27, dak 25
Interceptions
cousins 10, Dak 9
QB rating
Cousins 99.5 , Dak 97.25
QBR
cousins 60.6, Dak 68.65
Sacks
Cousins 33, Dak 33
Avg yds/attempt
Cousins 7.8, Dak 7.8

keeping in mind that Cousins is in his 10 year in the league and we are comparing his stats from year 6-10...and Dak from his rookie year to 2019.

so as the stats show, cousins, the veteran QB is not "clearly" better in passing stats, except that he sucks eggs at QBR, which tends to take into account game, game situation and all passing stats....

and to be fair, I am going to save this thread and throw it back out 4 years from now, comparing Dak's year 6-10 to cousins 6-10........you know just to compare apples to apples. so not sure how you feel about that....but we both know where that's going to end up. right?

it wouldn't be fair to compare cousins year 1-4 to Dak's year 1-4 since cousins couldn't keep the job once he got in. so there would be no comparison.

so tell me again where this is "clearly" better?

go ahead spin away

I'm assuming these are averages. You didn't specify, but if you throw in yards from your previous post it's basically Cousins better across the board when it comes to passing the ball. The only thing Dak has is one made up formula, one less INT, and better rushing stats.

I'd take 2016-2019 Cousins over 2016-2019 Dak any day.

If we're talking future I'm taking Dak.

No, go one a rambling post about how I'm wrong and you just can't accept my opinion so I can ignore it.

Clearly Cosuins is the better QB at the time of writing this post.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

"Passing stats"

Does that only encompass yards?

its one of the stats....

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I'm assuming these are averages. You didn't specify, but if you throw in yards from your previous post it's basically Cousins better across the board when it comes to passing the ball. The only thing Dak has is one made up formula, one less INT, and better rushing stats.

I'd take 2016-2019 Cousins over 2016-2019 Dak any day.

If we're talking future I'm taking Dak.

No, go one a rambling post about how I'm wrong and you just can't accept my opinion so I can ignore it.

Clearly Cosuins is the better QB at the time of writing this post.

your statement:

"...Dak is nowhere near as wide as the gap between Cousins passing stats compared to Dak...."

so as suspected and fully expected there you go again with your spin...I quoted you above.....we will discuss if he is clearly better later...but we have clearly, without a doubt shown that you are totally wrong in being "nowhere near"..... which is quite an exaggeration on your part as you often tend to do when you are trying to make your case....we have come to expect that from you (ala saying Dak had 50% completion rate, when he had 57, being close to 60% but I digress)........

secondly, cousins is not clearly better. although he is slightly better in some stats, he is equal or lesser on other stats....that's obvious from the numbers I posted.......but I am sure you like to ignore the stats that don't support your case....

the major stat that takes into account game, game situation and all other stats the QBR, cousins is far far far below and nowhere near Dak. we have easily established that. as mentioned on many stats they are the same and in some stats cousins is better and in some stats Dak is better.... I guarantee 10000% that if one did similar statistical comparison of other QBs to cousins, cousins would be better in some stats, and worse in others.....that's just the NFL, so don't blame me....We can easily do similar comparisons of cousins to Rodgers, Brady, Wilson, Jackson, Allen, Brees, tannehill, etc. and you can draw your own conclusion if you think based on stats Cousins is better than them or not.

mandatory disclaimer to avoid you saying I am comparing Dak to those QBs: The mention of the QBs above by no means intends to compare Dak to any of those QBs, what they have and have not accomplished or where Dak ranks with respect to those QBs.

so glad we established one fact, clearly. that your statement of "nowhere near" is totally false. I don't think you can deny that, but I am sure you will spin that....that's to be expected

so we have also had tons of discussion on cousins being better than Dak or not...there is about 10 pages of that...we can just go back and read it or rehash it again. your choice.

and again, I find it funny, comparing apples to oranges.... you clearly backed out of the comparison if we want to take into account Dak in years 6-10 (TBD).....when he would be considered a veteran. where in the original comparison we compared a rookie to a 5th year veteran.....not sure which book that would be considered fair...but hey to each his own spin, right?

 

[Typhus]

I really hate threads involving hindsight. Revisiting what could have been will drive you crazy if you let it. What if we gave Hitchens the contract Jaylon got and let Jaylon's rookie deal expire? What if we had drafted Randy Moss rather than Greg Ellis? Drafted Steven Jackson rather than Julius Jones?

Ive told everyone for decades now but they never listen, just invest in a crazy eight ball

 

[USArmyVet]

I didn't respond to this idiotic request because the formulas USE the "stone cold numbers." And ALL formulas are made up and not a one is perfect so I'm not sure I understand that aspect of your argument. Cousins has slightly better overall passing stats.. However as any Dak hater will tell you, stats mean nothing, it's about wins and losses right? And Dak wins at a much higher clip. Dak turns the ball over less. Dak is a better runner.. Dak has 1 less game winning drive in 42 fewer games.. He's simply a better football player.. If it's hard for you to read where I said Cousins has slightly better passing numbers I can't help you. However by and large they are volume numbers. He has more yards, completions, passing TDs, etc because he's played damn near twice as many games. It also bears starting that passing the ball is ONE aspect of a QB's job. You want to argue that Cousins is as good as Dak because of that ONE aspect of playing the game fine. You're entitled to your opinion. The overall numbers say you're wrong. The won-loss records say you're wrong.

If you need more evidence look at the career playoff performances.

Cousins has a career playoff passer rating of 86.6 while completing 62.1% of his passes in 4 games.
Prescott has a career playoff passer rating of 95.7 while completing 64.1% of his passes in 3 games.

So in the highest leveraged games against the best competition Dak is better even at PASSING the ball. I won't even bother to look at the discrepancy in the running game.. because we know how that would turn out.

....and BOTH have a 1-2 career playoff record.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

your statement:

"...Dak is nowhere near as wide as the gap between Cousins passing stats compared to Dak...."

so as suspected and fully expected there you go again with your spin...I quoted you above.....we will discuss if he is clearly better later...but we have clearly, without a doubt shown that you are totally wrong in being "nowhere near"..... which is quite an exaggeration on your part as you often tend to do when you are trying to make your case....we have come to expect that from you (ala saying Dak had 50% completion rate, when he had 57, being close to 60% but I digress)........

secondly, cousins is not clearly better. although he is slightly better in some stats, he is equal or lesser on other stats....that's obvious from the numbers I posted.......but I am sure you like to ignore the stats that don't support your case....

the major stat that takes into account game, game situation and all other stats the QBR, cousins is far far far below and nowhere near Dak. we have easily established that. as mentioned on many stats they are the same and in some stats cousins is better and in some stats Dak is better.... I guarantee 10000% that if one did similar statistical comparison of other QBs to cousins, cousins would be better in some stats, and worse in others.....that's just the NFL, so don't blame me....We can easily do similar comparisons of cousins to Rodgers, Brady, Wilson, Jackson, Allen, Brees, tannehill, etc. and you can draw your own conclusion if you think based on stats Cousins is better than them or not.

mandatory disclaimer to avoid you saying I am comparing Dak to those QBs: The mention of the QBs above by no means intends to compare Dak to any of those QBs, what they have and have not accomplished or where Dak ranks with respect to those QBs.

so glad we established one fact, clearly. that your statement of "nowhere near" is totally false. I don't think you can deny that, but I am sure you will spin that....that's to be expected

so we have also had tons of discussion on cousins being better than Dak or not...there is about 10 pages of that...we can just go back and read it or rehash it again. your choice.

and again, I find it funny, comparing apples to oranges.... you clearly backed out of the comparison if we want to take into account Dak in years 6-10 (TBD).....when he would be considered a veteran. where in the original comparison we compared a rookie to a 5th year veteran.....not sure which book that would be considered fair...but hey to each his own spin, right?

I'm sorry, but I just don't have it in me to read these rambling posts trying to change my opinions.

As of now Cousins is better then Dak. The numbers show that even if you purposely punish Cousins for being healthy in 2020 and throwing for more TDs then Dak has ever thrown for in a season.

Dak can change my opinion, but you can't.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I'm sorry, but I just don't have it in me to read these rambling posts trying to change my opinions.

As of now Cousins is better then Dak. The numbers show that even if you purposely punish Cousins for being healthy in 2020 and throwing for more TDs then Dak has ever thrown for in a season.

Dak can change my opinion, but you can't.

I never wanted to change your opinion. merely showing where you were clearly wrong, using facts and numbers you referenced.

so to summarize, your statement:

"...Dak is nowhere near as wide as the gap between Cousins passing stats compared to Dak...."

we have clearly, without a doubt shown that you are totally wrong in being "nowhere near"....the numbers you keep referencing attest to that

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

I never wanted to change your opinion. merely showing where you were clearly wrong, using facts and numbers you referenced.

so to summarize, your statement:

"...Dak is nowhere near as wide as the gap between Cousins passing stats compared to Dak...."

we have clearly, without a doubt shown that you are totally wrong in being "nowhere near"....the numbers you keep referencing attest to that

You've shown nothing but the fact that your willing to just leave 2020 out because Dak got injured, so Cosuins must also be punished for it. That's another thing Cousins has over Dak. Health.

Even with the purposely omitted numbers they still favor Cosuins.

Good try though! Maybe (Hopefully) the numbers go into Daks favor after next season.

 

[Hadenough]

If you compared 2016 to present stats you compared a guy in his 5th through 10th year to a guy in his 1st through 5th? Even doing that Cousins passing numbers are only SLIGHTLY better. Maybe compare Cousins's rookie to 5th seasons to Dak's rookie to 5th seasons. I know you don't want to do that because Dak would absolutely crush him. As Dak enters HIS 5th through 10th seasons there is every reason to believe his trajectory will rocket him past Cousins. AS A PASSER. In terms of QBR, which encompasses the entire body of work of a QB Dak has already put Cousins in the rear view mirror. Dak simply is a better football player.. which probably explains why his winning percentage is miles ahead of Cousins.. who is a .500 player despite playing the bulk of his career for Mike Shanahan and Mike Zimmer ... two guys I don't think anyone here would hesitate to take over Jason Garrett. As long as the Cowboys continue to run a more down the field passing attack and the Vikings keep running a version of the WCO Cousins' will always have inflated passing numbers. But because he is an inferior football player he will likely always have a worse won/loss record than Dak.

The reason I chose 2016 is because Cousins was in a helluva mess in Washington and they were terrible too. Shanahan wasnt there long and the owner wanted RG3 and didnt want Cousins. The Vikings were a better comparison. Dak was put in a better situation than Cousin and Cousins took longer to develop along with he wanted out of Washington. As far as Cousins being in the league longer that makes no difference! Guys that win SB usually do it early in their careers unless their name is Brady! Dont forget the Vikings have always had a worse OLine and Cousins had to do more because of that. He didnt have the luxury that Dak had with all number one draft picks across the line.

 

[Bartlebie]

..............................................….....

Whispers, "is this a trick question???"

Umm... Yeah, he's the best QB from 2016 class. Why is there 14 pages of replies? I'm sure it's all measured debate.

 

[garyo1954]

Pay attention!
Ronnie T. already explained all you need to know.

Dak is playing in a vertical/downfield passing offense.
Cousins plays in a West Coast variant which means more dump-off and short routes.

Flip the script.
Would Dak be as successful with more bodies closer to the line?
Would Cousins be as successful in Dallas?

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

You've shown nothing but the fact that your willing to just leave 2020 out because Dak got injured, so Cosuins must also be punished for it. That's another thing Cousins has over Dak. Health.

Even with the purposely omitted numbers they still favor Cosuins.

Good try though! Maybe (Hopefully) the numbers go into Daks favor after next season.

so no number were omitted.....so trying to compare apples to apples....how do you project the 2020 season? give me your spin.

should we be taking years 2017 to 2020 for cousins and then 2016 through 2019 for Dak? does that make sense? if that's your case, then that throws out cousins best year with 4900 yards.....

perhaps we should realistically consider Dak's first 5 years against Cousins first 5 years... fair?


good try though on another spin.

and I can't believe, even from you who tends to spin a lot, you are comparing health and injury as a measure of one QB being better than another.... seriously!!! really!! that's way way way too much desperation and spin for anybody..cousins is better than dak because cousins didn't break his ankle and dak did...wow....not sure how to respond to that spin, but it makes you sound very desperate.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

The reason I chose 2016 is because Cousins was in a helluva mess in Washington and they were terrible too. Shanahan wasnt there long and the owner wanted RG3 and didnt want Cousins. The Vikings were a better comparison. Dak was put in a better situation than Cousin and Cousins took longer to develop along with he wanted out of Washington. As far as Cousins being in the league longer that makes no difference! Guys that win SB usually do it early in their careers unless their name is Brady! Dont forget the Vikings have always had a worse OLine and Cousins had to do more because of that. He didnt have the luxury that Dak had with all number one draft picks across the line.

dak wasn't necessarily in better situation. he started 3rd on the depth chart. in fact he had a top 10 QB in front of him on the depth chart, with management favoring Romo, and building a Romo friendly offense...
once he got a chance to play and show his ability, he never let go of starting position. even when the incumbent was healthy to play, he wasn't replaced because of the way he was playing.

cousins wasn't clearly ready. when griffin got injured, cousins couldnt' make a case for being left as the starter. his play had left a lot to be desired.

so your spin on this doesn't really make sense.

btw, it wasn't just cousin who wanted out of washington. washington wanted to move on from cousins....they had no faith in him. rightfully so. the vikings OL is not a bad one, so don't make it as if cousins was climbing mount everst carrying the team on his back on his way up...

and cousins has had the benefit of much much better defenses and coaching in minn.

 

[garyo1954]

dak wasn't necessarily in better situation. he started 3rd on the depth chart. in fact he had a top 10 QB in front of him on the depth chart, with management favoring Romo, and building a Romo friendly offense...
once he got a chance to play and show his ability, he never let go of starting position. even when the incumbent was healthy to play, he wasn't replaced because of the way he was playing.

cousins wasn't clearly ready. when griffin got injured, cousins couldnt' make a case for being left as the starter. his play had left a lot to be desired.

so your spin on this doesn't really make sense.

btw, it wasn't just cousin who wanted out of washington. washington wanted to move on from cousins....they had no faith in him. rightfully so. the vikings OL is not a bad one, so don't make it as if cousins was climbing mount everst carrying the team on his back on his way up...

and cousins has had the benefit of much much better defenses and coaching in minn.

It wasn't faith in him that got him moved.
He was too expensive to keep.

Cousins was named the Commanders starter in 2015
Cousins was tagged after not signing a lowball offer in 2016.
Cousins was tagged in 2017 after the refusing a second contract in which he could make $24mill playing on the tag.
In 2018 the franchise tag would have paid him $34mill.
January 31, 2018, Cousins was traded.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ne-from-awkward-start-to-lucrative-departure/

 

[RonnieT24]

The reason I chose 2016 is because Cousins was in a helluva mess in Washington and they were terrible too. Shanahan wasnt there long and the owner wanted RG3 and didnt want Cousins. The Vikings were a better comparison. Dak was put in a better situation than Cousin and Cousins took longer to develop along with he wanted out of Washington. As far as Cousins being in the league longer that makes no difference! Guys that win SB usually do it early in their careers unless their name is Brady! Dont forget the Vikings have always had a worse OLine and Cousins had to do more because of that. He didnt have the luxury that Dak had with all number one draft picks across the line.

So experience in the league makes no difference? Gotcha.. You have to be trolling here since absolutely nobody thinks that. QBs almost universally continue to get better in the NFL as they gain experience until their bodies start to fall apart. As for the statement that "Cousins had to do more?" Really? the only time he made the playoffs in Minny was the year they literally took the ball out of his hands and demanded that he hand the ball off the Cook. In 2018 when he set career highs in pass attempts and yards they missed the playoffs and the next year Zimmer fired the OC and told the new OC to quit throwing it so damn much and hand it to Cook more.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

It wasn't faith in him that got him moved.
He was too expensive to keep.

Cousins was named the Commanders starter in 2015
Cousins was tagged after not signing a lowball offer in 2016.
Cousins was tagged in 2017 after the refusing a second contract in which he could make $24mill playing on the tag.
In 2018 the franchise tag would have paid him $34mill.
January 31, 2018, Cousins was traded.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ne-from-awkward-start-to-lucrative-departure/

I was in washington at the time and the team wanted to move on from cousins, they didn't want to pay him a contract because they didn't think he was worth it, and they were looking for another QB. he got tagged because they had no better option at the time and he represented their best chance. they always thought he was average QB. their previous GM never really liked him, which led to his famous line "how do you like me now", when he threw a bunch of TDs against a depleted chicago defense (I think it was chicago) at the time........I believe after his second tag he wasn't traded, but just signed a contract with Minn, who were desperate for a QB after Favre. t

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

....and BOTH have a 1-2 career playoff record.

and one has been in the league for 10+ years...