Was drafting Spears a mistake?

[wileedog]

You tell yourself your going to draft offense next year... I've been saying that since 1997 when we drafted David LaFluer... In 1998 we drafted Greg Ellis and we have used every #1 on a DEFENSIVE PLAYER since...

Actually, no, we threw away two #1s on Joey Galloway, the WR in 2000.

 

[superpunk]

I do not mean to infer that this new poster is nors so I don't want ANYONE to start like I am.

However the progression of his in this thread and than the last one with the QBs somewhat reminds me of Nors when he first started here.

He would have some language structure difficulties and sound like yoda would type and on occasion you read some of his posts and thought what the heck is this guy talking about as they seemed so out of left field.

This is what this thread and the QB post reminds me of.

To quote Patches O'hoolihan, "It's like watching..."

On second thought....nevermind.

 

[superpunk]

I totally agree... Santonio Holmes was looking real good on the board...

I prefer simmering the flying squirrels.

 

[cowboys41fe]

I still question the move even going to the 3-4... When you had 2 studs in Glover and Ferguson in the middle the only thing we were missing was a DE and S... This entire 3-4 forced the team to get players that it didn't have to fill the system... I can accept Spears and Ware if we stayed in the 4-3 and then came back this year and drafted a Santonio Holmes... But again, since 1998 it's been all defense... Why let a guy like Glover go?

 

[Rush 2112]

You tell yourself your going to draft offense next year... I've been saying that since 1997 when we drafted David LaFluer... In 1998 we drafted Greg Ellis and we have used every #1 on a DEFENSIVE PLAYER since...

Defense wins championships.

What was Ben R's QB rating in the SB?

You wanna draft offense in one?

Can't wait to see how people react if BP takes a certain NJ fullback in one.

 

[peplaw06]

I prefer simmering the flying squirrels.

Dasani Water all over my laptop

 

[CATCH17]

We got a player that could be really good with that pick and at no worse he will be solid.

I'll take that because thats still a lot better than what a lot of other teams can say.

 

[peplaw06]

I still question the move even going to the 3-4... When you had 2 studs in Glover and Ferguson in the middle the only thing we were missing was a DE and S... This entire 3-4 forced the team to get players that it didn't have to fill the system... I can accept Spears and Ware if we stayed in the 4-3 and then came back this year and drafted a Santonio Holmes... But again, since 1998 it's been all defense... Why let a guy like Glover go?

WE GOT Ferguson BECAUSE we needed a 3-4 DT. Not the other way around.

The 3-4 has given us more versatility, and our conscious effort to go get LBs has changed our entire corp from undersized to flat out beasts in two years. Now we dictate what offenses do instead of them dictating to us.

And WHAT is this fascination with Santonio Holmes?? What has he done so far? He's like Skyler Green in the first round.

 

[cowboys41fe]

Again 1998... That's nearly a decade later... Constantly drafting defense hasn't helped IMO... How many playoff appearances has that constant drafting of defenses got us since Troy?

 

[Dale]

It's rare that a team "truly" maximizes the value of every pick, every year.

There are always gonna be couldas, wouldas, and shouldas.

You can draft Troy Aikman but someone might ask, would Barry Sanders have been the better value?

The key, IMO, is just to get a good player. Preferably, a great one, but at least a productive player that is a key part of your franchise -- especially with those high picks.

I think we got one of those in Spears. 3-4 DEs aren't asked to rack up stats. He's not going to be a 10-sack guy. But so far, he seems to be doing a good job at what he's asked to do.

Getting Canty has no weighing in this equation. They're now starting at two separate end spots. Getting one but not both would have conceivably left us with a hole at defensive end.

 

[Stautner]

I still question the move even going to the 3-4... When you had 2 studs in Glover and Ferguson in the middle the only thing we were missing was a DE and S... This entire 3-4 forced the team to get players that it didn't have to fill the system... I can accept Spears and Ware if we stayed in the 4-3 and then came back this year and drafted a Santonio Holmes... But again, since 1998 it's been all defense... Why let a guy like Glover go?

Peplaw already mentioned that the only reason we acquired Ferguson was for the 3-4 .....

In additiion, it's goofy to say you could accept Spears and Ware if we stayed in the 4-3 because the only reason we drafted them as to convert to a 3-4 - THAT's the only reason they fit.

We let Glover go because of the 3-4 ..... he didn't fit.

It seems that you need to read up a little on the 3-4 defense.

The only shred of this that I can understand is your desire to draft a little offense to go along with the defense.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

To quote Patches O'hoolihan, "It's like watching..."

On second thought....nevermind.

Patches O'Houlihan: Son, you're about as useful as a ....

On second thought...nevermind.

:laugh2:

That guy had the best lines in that movie.

 

[junk]

I don't get this.

Lacewell et al were 0 for 10 something at the DT position post Jimmy.

1 for whatever at the DE position.

2 drafts and we are 2 solidly 2 deep everywhere except NT.

To get the prototype 4-3 DE you are usually picking top 5 (Peppers/Mario).

And we haven't even started talking about the DT's yet.

2 gap 3-4 DE is clearly not worth a first round pick if you conclude those 2 gaps are unimportant.

As long as BP, BB and Schottenheimer think they're worth it (Ty Warren, Seymour, Spears, Castillo) I'm ok with it.

This isn't a 3-4/4-3 argument so don't try to twist it into that.

For your Castillo, Warren and Seymour, I'll counter with an Aaron Smith, Brett Keisel, and Kimo Von Olhoeffen.

Two gapping is an important and dirty job, but I don't think it requires any super skill set to succeed at. Parcells has shown no inclination to use high picks on nose tackles, so why is it imperative for two gapping DEs?

Would the drop off be all that great with a Coleman or Marques Douglas?

Is 31 tackles and 1.5 sacks worth a first round pick? The team still gave up 4.2 per carry in the running game and finished right in the middle of the pack.

For the record, I like Spears and have no real issue with the pick, but there is a flip side to every issue and Cowboy fans tend to overlook them. Would using your second first rounder on a position that is more difficult to fill or has higher potential impact a valid argument? Sure, it is worth discussing. If I am ordering positions that are most difficult to fill, 3-4 DE is a ways down on the list.

I think the ultimate irony in all of this is that there are threads of people jumping all over Carpenter and calling him a bust. Using that logic, why isn't there the same outpouring of agony over Spears? I see them being similar players on the NFL level and following similar career paths so far.

 

[joseephuss]

I don't think that Dallas could afford to draft a wide receiver in the 1st round. Good receivers typically take a few years to start being major contributors to teams. Jones was not a good receiver coming out of college. He was a project. Still is a project. With all his size, speed and athleticism, he is still averaging only 12.3 yards per reception for his career. The Cowboys needed difference makers in the 1st round if they were to draft someone on the offensive side of the ball. They could and have gotten projects in the later rounds and undrafted free agency.

Also Matt Jones was not a two for guy. He cannot play QB at the NFL level. He was a poor decision maker in college and had a pretty weak arm for a guy his size.

 

[Stautner]

I think the ultimate irony in all of this is that there are threads of people jumping all over Carpenter and calling him a bust. Using that logic, why isn't there the same outpouring of agony over Spears? I see them being similar players on the NFL level and following similar career paths so far.

You're saying that a 2 year starter is on the same level and career path as a LB who has never started a game, has received only VERY minimal playing time, and has been inactive for 1/2 of the games he has been eligible for ......?

While I certainly realize that it's too early to tell with Carpenter (or realistically even with Spears at this point), to make this statement at this point in time is both strange and false.

 

[Cochese]

That is all I'm saying... Can we please start to take a look at the offense... Brees would have been a start, but BP and his FOB's...

Why dont you stop crapping yourself about drafting offense until THIS season is actually over?

 

[Rush 2112]

This isn't a 3-4/4-3 argument so don't try to twist it into that.

For your Castillo, Warren and Seymour, I'll counter with an Aaron Smith, Brett Keisel, and Kimo Von Olhoeffen.Two gapping is an important and dirty job, but I don't think it requires any super skill set to succeed at. Parcells has shown no inclination to use high picks on nose tackles, so why is it imperative for two gapping DEs?

Would the drop off be all that great with a Coleman or Marques Douglas?

Is 31 tackles and 1.5 sacks worth a first round pick? The team still gave up 4.2 per carry in the running game and finished right in the middle of the pack.

For the record, I like Spears and have no real issue with the pick, but there is a flip side to every issue and Cowboy fans tend to overlook them. Would using your second first rounder on a position that is more difficult to fill or has higher potential impact a valid argument? Sure, it is worth discussing. If I am ordering positions that are most difficult to fill, 3-4 DE is a ways down on the list.

I think the ultimate irony in all of this is that there are threads of people jumping all over Carpenter and calling him a bust. Using that logic, why isn't there the same outpouring of agony over Spears? I see them being similar players on the NFL level and following similar career paths so far.

Different GM's, schemes and philosophies.

As far as high picks on NT's when has he had the opportunity?

Wilfork?

We would have pounced all over that given the opportunity.

There are fewer of those than there are DE's.

Eric Howard taken #46 overall started was a starter for the 1990 SB team and went to Pro Bowl.

Get em where you can.

Vast majority of issues vs run last year were on the LB's.

 

[junk]

You're saying that a 2 year starter is on the same level and career path as a LB who has never started a game, has received only VERY minimal playing time, and has been inactive for 1/2 of the games he has been eligible for ......?

While I certainly realize that it's too early to tell with Carpenter (or realistically even with Spears at this point), to make this statement at this point in time is both strange and false.

How is it strange or false? Their career arcs have been similar so far.

Carpenter #18, Spears #20.

Spears is not a 2 year starter. He didn't start until midway through last season. His playing time was somewhat minimal over the first half of last year.

Carpenter also isn't starting and receiving minimal playing time.

Neither has or had made an immediate impact like everyone is clamoring that a first round pick should be.

 

[junk]

Vast majority of issues vs run last year were on the LB's.

The linebackers didn't help, but the rookie ends were at fault as well.

I think it was Jaws that broke this down sometime last season and very clearly illustrated that they were having issues at times and were being targeted by opposing offenses.

Do you disagree that it is a worthwhile discussion? Could the team have found a player with a greater game day impact and filled the 3-4 DE position through other means? Certainly bears discussing.

Now if Spears had proven himself to be valuable as a pass rushing tackle on nickel downs, I don't think it would be worth discussing at all. So far, he hasn't shown much in that regard.

 

[Stautner]

How is it strange or false? Their career arcs have been similar so far.

Carpenter #18, Spears #20.

Spears is not a 2 year starter. He didn't start until midway through last season. His playing time was somewhat minimal over the first half of last year.

Carpenter also isn't starting and receiving minimal playing time.

Neither has or had made an immediate impact like everyone is clamoring that a first round pick should be.

Spears wasn't starting or playing much early last year because he was hurt early on. As soon as he was healthy he started getting meaningful playing time, wound up playing more than Ellis then eventually became the starter.

Carpenter's career path isn't anything like that. It may prove to be, but it isn't now. Hell, Carpenter really doesn't even have a path at this point - he's just reaching the starting line.

Spears has a 14-15 games of meaningful playing time, a fair share as a starter, and Carpenter has 1 game being inactive and one game with minimal playing time - hardly similar.

Right now similar draft spots is all they have in common.